mistyronin 1181 Posted January 20, 2015 Are those T-80's? They sure look like T-80's... According to the biggest tank expert I know, they are T-80U. Because of the commander cupolas and how commander mg is mounted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted January 20, 2015 Are those T-80's? They sure look like T-80's... They look like T-80U/UD. And then goes a number of airborne vehicles - BTR-Ds, Nonas. Strange group. ---------- Post added at 00:44 ---------- Previous post was at 00:41 ---------- Wake up from your armor discussions, something interesting is reported by Reuters: Read UA media and you won't able to count billions of attacks from Russian troops happened since last summer, and how many Russian divisions, brigades and spetsnaz detachments were vaporised by glorious Ukrainian soldiers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) BBC is reporting about "regular russian troops" aswell.... Ukraine accuses Russian troops of attacking its forces Military spokesman Andriy Lysenko said regular Russian units had attacked in the Luhansk region, much of which is under pro-Russian rebel control. There has been no independent confirmation of the latest Ukrainian allegation. (Ukraine's assertion that its troops were now engaged with Russian regular forces in its separatist-minded eastern regions followed a flurry of charges by Kiev that the Russian military was stepping up incursions to support the rebels.) http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30907443 http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/20/us-ukraine-crisis-russians-idUSKBN0KT21U20150120?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews Read UA media and you won't able to count billions of attacks from Russian troops happened since last summer, and how many Russian divisions, brigades and spetsnaz detachments were vaporised by glorious Ukrainian soldiers. Isnt there some difference if there are "tourists" or regular combat troops around. Edited January 20, 2015 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted January 20, 2015 BBC is reporting about "regular russian troops" aswell....Ukraine accuses Russian troops of attacking its forces Military spokesman Andriy Lysenko said regular Russian units had attacked in the Luhansk region, much of which is under pro-Russian rebel control. There has been no independent confirmation of the latest Ukrainian allegation. (Ukraine's assertion that its troops were now engaged with Russian regular forces in its separatist-minded eastern regions followed a flurry of charges by Kiev that the Russian military was stepping up incursions to support the rebels.) http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30907443 http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/20/us-ukraine-crisis-russians-idUSKBN0KT21U20150120?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews The difference is that its not some Ukrainian media (Which does indeed often falsely report things), but the spokesman of the military, adding to the new videos of russian tech moving to the border and new tech arriving in Donetsk/Lugansk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted January 20, 2015 Well, we will know soon enough if Russian troops officially entered the fight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted January 20, 2015 Is it really a surprise that again Russia rushes to save the Separatists ass when the UA army goes on the offensive? Putin wants to keep this conflict boiling for as long as possible. A resolutin of the conflict (no matter in wich sides favour) is not in his interest right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted January 20, 2015 Well, we will know soon enough if Russian troops officially entered the fight. Its an important point and it would be a fatal change in the whole conflict, an open war between both countries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted January 20, 2015 BBC is reporting about "regular russian troops" aswell....Ukraine accuses Russian troops of attacking its forces Military spokesman Andriy Lysenko said regular Russian units had attacked in the Luhansk region, much of which is under pro-Russian rebel control. Ehm... I'd remind that former Ukrainian defence minister said that tactical nuclear weapon had been used against Ukrainian troops near Lugansk. Isnt there some difference if there are "tourists" or regular combat troops around. Various Ukrainian sources claimed UA army and other military formations fought with Russian VDV, Vympel, GRU spetsnaz, air defence detachments, EW detachments and Kantemirovskaya division (I hadn't mentioned other less large Russian formations). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted January 20, 2015 Well, we will know soon enough if Russian troops officially entered the fight. I think thats very unlikely. If Russia enters officially we will see much much more tech crossing the border. What we have now is reminiscent of what we had last year in the hot phases. Just as a reminder: The 200th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the RF from last year before they crossed the border The Golovinka camp, that is/was being used as a hub for russian tech before its being transported to Ukraine or for shelling from russian territory Sorry for the picture spam :D ---------- Post added at 21:06 ---------- Previous post was at 21:04 ---------- Ehm... I'd remind that former Ukrainian defence minister said that tactical nuclear weapon had been used against Ukrainian troops near Lugansk. I guess there is a reason why he is the former defense minister. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted January 20, 2015 Is it really a surprise that again Russia rushes to save the Separatists ass when the UA army goes on the offensive? Putin wants to keep this conflict boiling for as long as possible. A resolutin of the conflict (no matter in wich sides favour) is not in his interest right now. I'd say other way: every time UA armed forces being defeated by separatists and get massive casualties official Ukrainian spokesmen cry about Russian invasion. I've seen some videos with UA soldiers taken POWs today near airport. They say the same: they were told that airport is in hands of UA troops and their task is just to help with casualties evacuation. Instead of it they got into prepared separatist positions and got either killed or captured. Even brigade commander. So whose ass must be saved? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) They should already end this madness, I have seen on TV new "recruits" for the mobilization (50.000 soldiers). Some of them were almost looking like kids beeing just 18 years old. If Russia itself do not want to be seen as part of the nation in this conflict to sign the Minsk Agreement, they should sign it with the rebels. Just end this conflict with an important buffer zone and get back fighting with talks instead of "meatgrind" missions like seen at the donetsk airport. Horrible and so much waste for nothing. Edited January 20, 2015 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted January 20, 2015 They should already end this madness, I have seen on TV new "recruits" for the mobilization (50.000 soldiers). Some of them were almost looking like kids beeing just 18 years old. If Russia itself do not want to be seen as part of the nation in this conflict to sign the Minsk Agreement, they should sign it with the rebels. Just end this conflict with an important buffer zone and get back fighting with talks instead of "meatgrind" missions like seen at the donetsk airport. Horrible and so much waste for nothing. Well... Someone joked that "America will fight with Russia until the last Ukrainian". De-facto Ukraine is ruled from Mr. Payett's office. So if he provides an order to stop - Ukrainian officials will obey. But he won't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted January 20, 2015 Some of them were almost looking like kids beeing just 18 years old. The minimal mobilisation age is 25 years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted January 20, 2015 I'd say other way: every time UA armed forces being defeated by separatists and get massive casualties official Ukrainian spokesmen cry about Russian invasion. I've seen some videos with UA soldiers taken POWs today near airport. They say the same: they were told that airport is in hands of UA troops and their task is just to help with casualties evacuation. Instead of it they got into prepared separatist positions and got either killed or captured. Even brigade commander. So whose ass must be saved? Sure, because the Separatists opening another front at Mariupol while they got their ass handed to them everywhere else totally wasn´t due to Russian troops helping them out.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted January 20, 2015 http://youtu.be/6OLk4o4LP8U People fleeing from Donetsk on the road to Kurachowe in fears of full scale conflict. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted January 20, 2015 Sure, because the Separatists opening another front at Mariupol while they got their ass handed to them everywhere else totally wasn´t due to Russian troops helping them out.... It was a divine intervention, God himself gave them lots of tanks and teleported a good bunch of them to Mariupol. People fleeing from Donetsk on the road to Kurachowe in fears of full scale conflict. I feel sorry for them, fleeing in the midst of winter is really f... up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) The minimal mobilisation age is 25 years. Some of them on TV were really looking like teenagers... edit: I saw this on TV and the reports were different about the age....no idea about the official age, but they really look younger in this video.(0:19+ min) ZDF report from yesterday: it is said with images from a running camera "young men, just 18 or 19 years old, some look like children" http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/beitrag/video/2325340/Kiew-Mobilisierung-weiterer-Reservisten#/beitrag/video/2325340/Kiew-Mobilisierung-weiterer-Reservisten Edited January 20, 2015 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted January 20, 2015 Some of them on TV were really looking like teenagers... Maybe they are just volunteers. What TV are you talking about? The minimal age is 25. The maximum age is 60. If you have 3 kids or more you are not eligible. If you are a single parent you are not eligible. If you are a student you are not eligible. If you are a priest you are not eligible. If you have to watch for a disabled or old person you are not eligible. There are a few more criteria but I don't remember them anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted January 20, 2015 Maybe they are just volunteers. What TV are you talking about? ZDF - 2nd german state TV - HEUTE news, one of the main news show on evening. They dont talk about volunteers, they talk about mobilisation and beeing drafted. Just have a look at the video....cant say more about it. Thx for the infos. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballistic09 241 Posted January 21, 2015 In not so much quantities as it is often told. No need to drag T-64's, BTR-70/80, MTLBs, Strela-10, T-72s and arty through the border as there are plenty of such stuff stationed in Ukraine already. It's much easier and faster to find and train crews and bring some missing spares if needed.Look what is stored just at the place of the fighting: http://interpolit.ru/_bl/17/46355778.jpg (293 kB) http://wio.ru/anti/t/t72a-t64.jpg (367 kB) http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/7/6/3/3441367.jpg (172 kB) http://ye.ua/images/upload/1404482222.jpg (185 kB) Literally none of those photos are from Artemivsk... The first and second ones are from the Kharkov armored repair plant, the third is from the 2544th Central base of reserve armored vehicles in Russia, and the last is from Starokostiantyniv in western Ukraine. :q: If you care to check, satellite photos of Artemivsk from before and after Russ... er, rebel occupation show virtually no change in vehicle stocks. Most are probably simply broken down or in bad condition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) The base is long abandoned by the way. Edited January 21, 2015 by beastcat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rydygier 1317 Posted January 21, 2015 "Poland close betrayal of Ukraine" - when a neighbor is at war with our common, deadly enemy you have to help him. In this case, not only morally, because they are really there to shoot each other - so about the conflict in eastern Ukraine said Zbigniew Bujak to RMF FM, a former activist of the anti-communist opposition in Poland and co-founder of the Solidarity Committee of Ukraine. According Bujak, Poland should be involved in the Russian-Ukrainian conflict. - I believe in a very deep engagement. If formulated Ukrainian-Polish-Lithuanian brigade I ask why it is not there now in the East - he added.When asked if he imagines Polish soldiers who fought in the vicinity of Donetsk airport, said: - It would be fantastic. We would show, that we are building in this part of Europe a deep, lasting, strategic alliance, which will guarantee security, not only ours, but also in Europe. Bujak added that the Russians for centuries in the same manner conduct their war. - Where they feel strong resistance, there can even withdraw - he said.He urged not to leave the Ukrainians themselves. - If I say that we are approaching the betrayal, it is because we are at the most elementary basic level today, we do not give the necessary support - he stressed. According to him, the list of essential military equipment Ukraine long ago gave NATO, so Poland knows how she could help her. - When I'm in the trenches and Mariupol and they say, ask: "you have, give us," then I'm ashamed - he said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sudayev 27 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) "Poland close betrayal of Ukraine" Polish soldiers who fought in the vicinity of Donetsk airport, said: - It would be fantastic. Thank God, this only one man's opinion. Man instead flapping his gums should take the rifle himself and go spend the winter in tranches of Donbas or at least told his children to do that. Last thing Poland needs is to send own troops against another country and having soldiers fighting for other nations cause. In name of what? With age people seem to talk a lot bullshit, this man is a perfect example. Edited January 21, 2015 by Sudayev Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keeway 287 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Im just hoping that separatist wont be able to take whole Ukraine, and they will be happy with eastern part :P And in the subject of polish soldiers in Ukraine, I would rather see them on Russian side. Edited January 21, 2015 by Keeway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted January 21, 2015 Im just hoping that separatist wont be able to take whole Ukraine, and they will be happy with eastern part :P And in the subject of polish soldiers in Ukraine, I would rather see them on Russian side. That is called POW abuse and constitutes a war crime under Geneva conventions. Very convenient how they cut out te bit where the idiot shoots past the POWs head at 0:25. I´m really not surprised to see that behaviour from them. Also they told the POW what to say in front of the camera. The questions are asked in a "say yes or..." way. This guy just keeps telling everybody that they control the airport (seriously, he´s been doing it for months now), while in fact the separatists control only part of it. Despicable Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
