mistyronin 1181 Posted December 21, 2014 It woudn't be the first that the US staged a coup, so why do you find it so hard to believe? Or do you think that the US has no interest in Ukraine? Because of its own nature, it was done by a big part of the population and the parliament, besides it was legal so I don't get the obsession with the word coup. Yanukovich chained a lot of bad decisions against it's people, and he lost all support, even his own party members vouched to oust him. If you want to compare it with BahÃa de Cochinos or Panama, feel free... Which were real US staged coups, without any popular support. Besides that it's the EU which has more interests in Cuba than the US. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sgtsev3n 12 Posted December 21, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxNMpoOpCmg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted December 21, 2014 Seriously, stop quoting RT videos....they are laughable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sgtsev3n 12 Posted December 21, 2014 Seriously, stop quoting RT videos....they are laughable. stop quoting western media, they are laughable Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted December 21, 2014 stop quoting western media, they are laughable *clap* *clap* *clap* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted December 21, 2014 We don´t want any thread bans to be handed out guys. sgtsev3n you shouldn´t link every bullshit that RT publishes (seriously, most of their stuff has been debunked in this very thread. Their news are full of lies....) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sgtsev3n 12 Posted December 21, 2014 We don´t want any thread bans to be handed out guys.sgtsev3n you shouldn´t link every bullshit that RT publishes (seriously, most of their stuff has been debunked in this very thread. Their news are full of lies....) i wont link only RT stuff. it is not only today i post here, i will also post stuff where western media & leaders admits stuff and many other things from other sources aswell, so dont worry.you should people post what they want in this topic (as long as its related to ukraine) and not only what matches with western media. BTW: you guys shouldn´t link every bullshit that western media publishes, theyr stuff (about ukraine aswell about syria, libya etc) has been mostly debunked in the internet. but its up to you what you post and what not. this is a free topic (i hope). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maxyzzz940 10 Posted December 22, 2014 @ProfTournesol, i have a Q for you, and possible for every man who read this topic: in what you believe and who right you think?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nodunit 397 Posted December 22, 2014 @ProfTournesol, i have a Q for you, and possible for every man who read this topic: in what you believe and who right you think?! Does it ultimately matter? At the end of the day we are just some strangers on a discussion board who won't have any impact on the events going on, we can banter back and forth in an attempt to sway opinion, add clarity, or spread misinformation but ultimately it is all for naught other than the interest of the discussion and arguement itself. As for who is right, neither side is, not about right and wrong but national interest and what opportunities they see in the conflict. Be it a resource of personal gain or the opportunity to discredit another, politicians are politicians, they shake your hand with one hand while either taking your wallet with the other or stabbing you in the back, they have their positives and negatives but really neither candidates are people worth rooting for...but thats like..just my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maxyzzz940 10 Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) @NodUnit, it was just allusion of the fact that such discussions become destructive and often only aggravate hostility of interests. One guy spam official mass-media, rest guys spam same and the only difference is that to whom these mass-media obey. ;) I don't believe both of them. But i agree with Russian goverment — all Ukranian "circus" none other than like offensive against Russian sphere of influence. And i don't believe any country which says 'I'm World gendarme' or any country which choose that way. Hate stupid ambitions. And only one important — human lives. P.S. And yes before you question — i'm from Russia. How i see, this important for some ppl in this thread. Edited December 22, 2014 by Maxyzzz940 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sub-Human 10 Posted December 22, 2014 to me George Friedman has always been a character that seeks notoriety over anything else and as credible as any average Illuminati conspiracy author. He's the head of a well-respected intelligence company. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted December 22, 2014 @ProfTournesol, i have a Q for you, and possible for every man who read this topic: in what you believe and who right you think?! I will answer your question. I think we all know that all big global actors are playing dirty. So you have to be very carefull who you believe. I don´t think that anybody here (who isn´t banned) uncoditionally believes in what the "west" or the "east" tells us. We all have to take a good look at the facts. Unfortunatelly those facts and our experiences point towards the Russian media telling nothing but absolute bullshit. So we only have the "west" media to tell us what is happening, wich is a shame. All facts point to Russia invading Ukraine, taking a huge and valuable chunck of their land and then activelly destabilizing the rest. So I have to think that the Ukraine is right. All things also point to Putin beeing an absolute dick. So again, I´d rather believe that Ukraine is right to not want to be ruled by him. Ultimatelly I believe that every people should have the right to self determine their own course in this world without interference from outside. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
batto 17 Posted December 22, 2014 http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/taking-strategic-intelligence-model-moscow http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/viewing-russia-inside The first article is quite rational. Sorry if re-post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted December 22, 2014 He's the head of a well-respected intelligence company. Well-respected by who? Stratfor is a joke company, with pathetic info, which only is a piece of news due to his CEO desire to be notorious. Basically it's a scam company. ( Atlantic ) Stratfor Is a Joke and So Is Wikileaks for Taking It Seriously ( The Austin Chronicle ) Fun and Games With Stratfor ( The Guardian ) WikiLeaks' Stratfor dump lifts lid on intelligence-industrial complex Analysts working on the Middle East for the company appeared to be very poorly informed, with no more experience than a semester of studying abroad, according to journalists who have studied the documents. "They used Google translate to read al-Akbar news articles," says an incredulous Jamal Ghosn, associate editor of that newspaper in Beirut, Lebanon. "This is a guaranteed way for good intelligence to be lost in translation."Mike Bonnano of the Yes Men, a group of international pranksters who impersonate corporate executives and government leaders to highlight environmental and social abuses, was astonished to discover that his group was being tracked by Stratfor, which was apparently making money selling a list of his public-speaking engagements. "They [are] making it sound better to clients simply so that they can make money," says Bonnano, after reviewing the material provided to him by WikiLeaks. "We're not talking about good intelligence, we're talking about a lot of information because more information means more money. That does not mean that it's smart." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surpher 1 Posted December 23, 2014 (BBC) Ukraine votes to drop non-aligned status In a vote in Ukraine's parliament on Tuesday, MPs overwhelmingly backed the move by 303 to eight.Speaking before the vote, Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin said Ukraine was determined to pivot towards Europe and the West. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted December 23, 2014 A great Putin's victory : throwing one of its closest friends into the evil West hands. Congrats Vlad :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted December 23, 2014 A great Putin's victory : throwing one of its closest friends into the evil West hands. Congrats Vlad :) It's his main success in these last years. Well that, and to achieve that most of Russia's neighbors now see the country as a crazy bully expansionist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted December 23, 2014 (BBC) Ukraine votes to drop non-aligned status One the one side what does Russia expect, but its probably not the right time for such a vote. In 2008 already NATO did decide against a "Membership Action Plan" for Georgia and Ukraine, and against the interests of the USA under Bush. You all would be probably suprised why Germany, France and other NATO states did decide the following in 2008: The reason for the decision was to minimze the risk of the good relatioship between Russia and Europe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted December 23, 2014 Obviously, time has changed, even if there are a lot of voices in Western countries that still support the need to keep good relationships with Putin's Russia. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) Obviously, time has changed, even if there are a lot of voices in Western countries that still support the need to keep good relationships with Putin's Russia. Probably the pressure from the USA plays a role aswell, the vice president Bieden did told a while ago in a press conference that the US were "insisting" to take action in form of sanctions against Russia even the european countries did not want it. Edited December 23, 2014 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted December 23, 2014 It´s amazing how fast Putin has destroyed all that diplomatic goodwill that Russia has earned since the fall of the Soviet union.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted December 23, 2014 It´s amazing how fast Putin has destroyed all that diplomatic goodwill that Russia has earned since the fall of the Soviet union.... Yeah his reaction is of course contributing, but what I miss in a lot of discussions and posts about Russia is the fact that russians did have it never better than under Putin. Putin is popular in Russia over the years and there are reasons for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted December 23, 2014 I'm sure Stalin was popular while being one the biggest butcher of XXth century... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted December 23, 2014 Obviously, time has changed, even if there are a lot of voices in Western countries that still support the need to keep good relationships with Putin's Russia. Indeed, nobody wants to meet another Guinean maid... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted December 23, 2014 I'm sure Stalin was popular while being one the biggest butcher of XXth century... mmh I dont think so people had it better under stalin and this is a little exxagerated comparison... . The open markets in the 90s under Jelzin were catastrophic. Western nations would have probably appreciate to prolong the situation of open markets in the 90s under Jelzin, in the time when Oligarchs did took power, Russia was on the bottom and the people did fell into poverty. It was a catastrophic situation for them. Putin is not a flawless democrat, but it is Putins achievement that he did lead Russia out of misery or/and avoiding the downfall. The methodes he used are of course questionable. When was Russia ever a free and democratic nation ? Under the Czar, Stalin or Brezhnev ? Nah, the russians do not have it that bad under Putin...not perfect...but it could be worse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
