Ukraine General

[beastcat 14]

[Tonci87 163]

Beastcat, you can´t just post Pictures without context.

[beastcat 14]

Beastcat, you can´t just post Pictures without context.

I was hoping they would create their context themselves.

On the pictures you see russian press and soldiers driving inside of an ambulance, which is not a cool thing to do.

Reminds one of the time the separatists used OSCE cars to drive around.

[Tonci87 163]

I was hoping they would create their context themselves.

On the pictures you see russian press and soldiers driving inside of an ambulance, which is not a cool thing to do.

Reminds one of the time the separatists used OSCE cars to drive around.

Isn´t this forbidden by the Geneva convention?

[aleksadragutin 9]

Isn´t this forbidden by the Geneva convention?

But let's not forget that the pictures don't provide nearly enough info to jump to that conclusion.

[surpher 1]

Here is the video

[beastcat 14]

But let's not forget that the pictures don't provide nearly enough info to jump to that conclusion.

But this will provide more than enough info. Skip to 1:00.

---------- Post added at 20:30 ---------- Previous post was at 20:29 ----------

Here is the video

You are a real ninja....

[surpher 1]

(ICRC) Practice Relating to Rule 59. Improper Use of the Distinctive Emblems of the Geneva Conventions

[Tonci87 163]

The ugly side of this is that after seeing this Ukrainian soldiers at that location may not hesitate to shoot at real ambulances that are trying to rescue wounded....

This is why such behaviour is forbidden. If the red cross gets wind of this they will file a complaint. (Yeah I know, Russia doesn´t give a fuck about that, because Russia....)

They did sign it though

The Russian Federation’s Military Manual (1990) provides that it is a prohibited method of warfare “to use improperly distinctive emblemsâ€.

The Russian Federation’s Regulations on the Application of IHL (2001) states: “The prohibited methods of warfare include … making improper use of the … international distinctive emblem of the Red Cross (Red Crescent).â€

[T]he distinctive emblem (a red cross on a white ground) shall be carried and displayed in clearly visible places by medical and religious personnel, medical units and medical transports. It shall be respected in all circumstances, it shall not be used improperly.

Ukraine seems to be a bit more clear with its law

Ukraine’s Emblem Law (1999) provides:

The use of the emblem of the red cross or red crescent, or red cross and red crescent, of the names “Red Cross†or “Red Crescentâ€, or “Red Cross and Red Crescentâ€, of the distinctive sign or any other sign, name or signal constituting an imitation thereof … or capable of creating confusion, regardless of the purpose of such use, in violation of the provisions of the present law … are prohibited.

…

Persons having committed a breach of the Ukrainian legislation of the use and symbolic of the Red Cross and Red Crescent are liable to punishment in conformity with Ukrainian legislation.

Pursuant to Ukraine’s Criminal Code (2001), “carrying the Red Cross or Red Crescent symbols in an operational zone by persons not entitled to do so, as well as misuse of flags or signs of the Red Cross and Red Crescent or the colours attributed to medical vehicles in state of martial law†constitutes a war crime.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Tonci87

[oxmox 73]

Yeah I know, Russia doesn´t give a fuck about that, because Russia....

...its still not to late to notice that warcrimes and violations of certain international laws are happening on both sides. I have doubts that any war did exist without infringements of laws, doesnt matter which participants. But it is of course good to uncover such issues, still such cases like shown in the video are small incidents in comparison what we did read about in other posts/reports already - but it adds.

It is really good that we have such international laws like the geneve convention even it is not always kept. Much better than in world war 2, aside from warcrimes & ideology,when whole major countries did not sign (or only partially) the Geneve Convention at all i.e. Sovjetunion, Japan.

Edited December 11, 2014 by oxmox

[mistyronin 1181]

Don't want to be picky, but that ambulance is not and has no relationship with the International Red Cross, nor the emblem displayed in it is related to the Red Cross. So that rules doesn't apply.

It was an Ambulance tho, so technically should be unarmed.

The official emblems of the Red Cross are:

[aleksadragutin 9]

The ugly side of this is that after seeing this Ukrainian soldiers at that location may not hesitate to shoot at real ambulances that are trying to rescue wounded....

This is why such behaviour is forbidden. If the red cross gets wind of this they will file a complaint. (Yeah I know, Russia doesn´t give a fuck about that, because Russia....)

They did sign it though

Ukraine seems to be a bit more clear with its law

Wait, what does Russia have to do with 2 armed men riding in an ambulance?

[Tonci87 163]

Wait, what does Russia have to do with 2 armed men riding in an ambulance?

You know what.

[oxmox 73]

I did google a bit, its called "The Star of Life" and is the international symbol for emergency medical service.

Designed by Leo R. Schwartz, Chief of the EMS Branch, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA),[1] the Star of Life was created after the American National Red Cross complained in 1973 that the orange cross too closely resembled their logo, the red cross on a white background, its use restricted by the Geneva Conventions.[2]

btw...

In 2006, the Canadian Red Cross issued a press release asking video game makers to stop using the red cross in their games; it is an especially common sight to see first aid kits and other items which restore the player character's health marked with a red cross.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_of_Life

Edited December 11, 2014 by oxmox

[aleksadragutin 9]

You know what.

No, actually I don't. Would you please care to explain.

[mistyronin 1181]

No, actually I don't. Would you please care to explain.

I think he implies those two fellas are part of the mission that the Russia Defense has recognized inside Eastern Ukraine territory.

( ITAR TASS ) Russian military assisting in settlement of eastern Ukraine conflict — General Staff

[beastcat 14]

The totally not russian army.


Also the Ukrainian army has supposedly signed a contract with Barrett.


(Click the pic for 360 view)

---------- Post added at 20:38 ---------- Previous post was at 19:11 ----------

Ukraine Today - US Senate approves bill allocating Ukraine USD 350mln of lethal weapons

The US Senate has passed a bill to provide Ukraine with USD 350 million worth of defensive weapons and to expand sanctions against Russian defense firms.

As part of the draft law in response to the Kremlin's actions in Ukraine's eastern regions, Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia will also recieve major non-NATO ally status.

In addition to military assistance to Ukraine, the document also provides support in the field of energy, the fight against Russian propaganda and help temporary migrants.

US President Barack Obama must now approve the bill before its signed into law. He has so far refused to give Ukraine lethal military aid.

Edited December 12, 2014 by beastcat

[surpher 1]

(Global Voices) Ukrainian Hackers Leak Russian Interior Ministry Docs with ‘Evidence’ of Russian Invasion

Hacking collectives on both sides of the Ukraine-Russia information war have been instrumental in revealing key facts and documents that some would prefer to remain hidden. The latest leak by Ukrainian hackers purports to reveal new evidence of Russian soldiers’ presence in Ukraine.

[ProfTournesol 956]

(BBC News) Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict

Ever since Ukraine's February revolution, the Kremlin has characterised the new leaders in Kiev as a "fascist junta" made up of neo-Nazis and anti-Semites, set on persecuting, if not eradicating, the Russian-speaking population.

This is demonstrably false. Far-right parties failed to pass a 5% percent barrier to enter parliament, although if they had banded together, and not split their vote, they would have probably slipped past the threshold.

Only one government minister has links to nationalist parties - though he is in no way a neo-Nazi or fascist. And the speaker of parliament, Volodymyr Groysman, is Jewish. He has the third most powerful position in the country after the president and prime minister.

But Ukrainian officials and many in the media err to the other extreme. They claim that Ukrainian politics are completely fascist-free. This, too, is plain wrong.

As a result, the question of the presence of the far-right in Ukraine remains a highly sensitive issue, one which top officials and the media shy away from. No-one wants to provide fuel to the Russian propaganda machine.

But this blanket denial also has its dangers, since it allows the ultra-nationalists to fly under the radar. Many Ukrainians are unaware that they exist, or even what a neo-Nazi or fascist actually is, or what they stand for.

[beastcat 14]

They are not even trying anymore.

The text says "For Stalin" by the way.

[ProfTournesol 956]

For Stalin... responsible of 23 millions of death...

[aleksadragutin 9]

They are not even trying anymore.

http://puu.sh/dus5c/f137ebf5c1.jpg

The text says "For Stalin" by the way.

The number 831 looks fake. Like it was overlain on the picture.

---------- Post added at 19:27 ---------- Previous post was at 19:26 ----------

For Stalin... responsible of 23 millions of death...

Does your statement have a point?

[ProfTournesol 956]

Does your statement have a point?

If you don't see it, i can't help you, unless you only wanted to make a smart comment.

[beastcat 14]

The number 831 looks fake. Like it was overlain on the picture.

It's nice that it looks fake to you, but its not.

Here it is in slightly higher resolution and without the red markings:

The DPR is a very strange place...

Edited December 14, 2014 by beastcat

[Heeeere's johnny! 51]

I might have missed something, but assuming the people - especially soldiers - know the political situation, why do they share such pictures?

The only two reasons I can imagine so far are dumbness or making a wrong impressen aka "fake".