Ukraine General

[aleksadragutin 9]

i gave example of my aunt who watch Planeta RT 10-12 hours a day, there is no single word of criticizm against government there, there is only propaganda how great Putin is, how evil Ukrainians are and some sketches and some consumer programs about how bad and poisoning is western food , yesterday for 2 hours there was Zhyrinovski there

Is it the only TV channel in Russia(that is rhetorical)? In short, both sides tell lies, and that is the truth.

[vilas 477]

matter is of level of lies,

it is like with politically not correct truth about some groups which commit crimes 10 times more often than other group, but than political corectness say "both sides commit crimes" but not say "how often" ,

the same here, both media lie, just one lie few times more , some media ignore facts, some media deny facts and "damage brain" as told here by man from Moscow

[beastcat 14]

http://youtu.be/mbarj_Kl2D0

Separatists shelling Donetsk airport from residential areas.

[vilas 477]

meanwhile in France - Minstral on sea with Russian crew

[mistyronin 1181]

From Finland, a neutral country ( no pro-Russian, no NATO member ).

( Yle ) Defence Ministry ( Of Finland ) warns of Russian â€information warâ€

The Defence Minister Carl Haglund has warned against the spread of Russian propaganda and misinformation in news reports and online. Speaking to Yle on Friday, Haglund described the mainstream Russian media’s portrayal of events surrounding the Urkaine crisis as “far from impartial or objectiveâ€.

Haglund made his comments after a researcher for Finland’s defence forces claimed that Russia is operating so-called troll farms – armies of internet users hammering out comments on news stories and social media in support of Russia, on issues such as the EU sanctions, and whether Finland should join Nato.

“One troll can put out 50 to a hundred posts a day. Add in blog writings, and times that by however many people are doing it, and you have a huge mass of information," Saara Jantunen of the Defence Forces Research Institute says.

[beastcat 14]

[oxmox 73]

Also in the US and basically everywhere around the world you have mainstream TV channels that are not controled by the government so you get multiple opinions on the same subject. In RUssai all the big media is controled by the Kremlin....

The western press is of course a lot more free than in russsia, wheras both are manipulating of course.

Most newspapers or magazines in the western nations take over the press releases from press agencies and copy them, therefore we have frequently some kind of mishmash. The main media exists not only to report but to build an opinion.

Iam sure you guys did notice/read the following about our own western journalism aswell...

* one sided coverage

* missing critical and more neutral journalism

* one of the strong manipulation is to report not about something; exclude informations; ripping it out of the coherency

* desinformation agencies exist (i.e.described aswell in the last book from Peter Scholl-Latour released this month, the german readers know him)

* involvement of journalists and editors in organisations with certain (global) interests ( i.e. "Die Anstalt" did talk about it some weeks ago on german TV)

* influence of lobbies

* the western main media worldwide at the end belongs only to a handful of corporations

...just some examples.

Edited September 13, 2014 by oxmox

[.kju 3244]

> Energy company PGNiG: Poland backpedals in the dispute over Russian gas supplies

http://spiegel.de/article.do?id=991372

As it seems Poland got all the gas as it has ordered as usual.

They just wanted to sell something extra to Ukraine and announced that prior - which Russia obviously didn't want to deliver.

So as always it always pays off to look closer and not fall for the quick propaganda ploy.

[Rydygier 1309]

Polish press about that

Russian gas giant Gazprom said on Saturday that it is able to export to the Poland gas only at the minimum level prescribed in the contracts, and not in the amount by which asks Warsaw. Justifications not specified.

"They (Poland) ask for a transfer of the maximum volume of gas, but we are able to provide only the daily minimum" - told Reuters spokesman for Gazprom.

Gas giant did not explain what these limitations are due. Reuters points out, however, that a few days ago, Gazprom said that the amount of gas pumped depends on the currently held resources for export and the ongoing filling of underground storage facilities on the territory of the Russian Federation.

According to the Russian media, Gazprom's contracts with partners in Europe are formulated in such a way that reducing the supply company can compensate for their increased at another time. Contracts define the minimum amount of gas that Gazprom must provide and the maximum that can deliver.

According to the Polish energy industry analysts, Russia may deliberately limit the transmission of blue fuel to the West, to discourage the European Union to implement a new round of sanctions against Moscow's role in the crisis in Ukraine.

SPP, importer of gas in Slovakia, through which flows to the EU, most of Russian gas, announced that on Saturday, the fourth day in a row, supplies were reduced by 10 percent.

In turn, the energy minister of Romania Razvan Nicolescu also submitted on Saturday that Gazprom has decided not to reduce supplies to this country for 9 percent. Saturday and by 5 percent. Sunday, as planned even the day before.

Poland, like Slovakia and Hungary, participates in the so-called reverse supply of gas to Ukraine, which since June does not receive raw materials from Russia because of the continuing dispute with Gazprom on the price of raw materials and outstanding payments on the side of Kiev.

The EU published on Friday a new list of sanctions against Russia for destabilizing Ukraine. Visa restrictions and financial comprised another 24 people, including members of parliament. The EU has limited access to capital, a large Russian oil companies and arms.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Rydygier

[mistyronin 1181]

( The Guardian ) Ukraine fights off attack on Donetsk airport by pro-Russia forces

Ukraine's military says it has successfully defended the government-held airport in Donetsk from an attack by pro-Russia rebels.

A large plume of black smoke hung over the airport after it came under artillery fire late on Friday, in one of the biggest battles since a fragile ceasefire was declared.

Continuous rocketfire could be heard overnight in the city of Donetsk, controlled by pro-Russia forces. City officials said shells had hit residential buildings near the airport, although no casualties were reported.

A column of three Russian multiple rocket launchers was seen moving freely through Donetsk on Saturday morning.

The latest fighting comes as Ukraine's prime minister, Arseny Yatseniuk, accused Russia's president, Vladimir Putin, of wanting to destroy Ukraine as an independent country and resurrect the Soviet Union. Speaking at a conference of European politicians, he said his country was "in a stage of war" with Russia, as Moscow sent a second convoy of trucks into Ukraine without Kiev's consent.

[maturin 12]

There probably is propaganda in Russian media, but what I find funny is that people think that this is not the case with US and EU (especially US).

Probably. Probably?

Russian media accuses the Ukrainians of crucifying children and never even bothers to post a retraction. Basically the same standards of reporting as a jihadist mouthpiece that posts YouTube videos of car bombings.

There is not the slightest bit of equivalence between Russian and Western media. None.

The Western press is in a dreadful state, but that is a story for another time, because what's going on in Russia right now is just beyond the pale. Channel One makes the National Enquirer look like a paragon of truth.

[beastcat 14]

Ria said that it was indeed a Buk missile, but it was still the Ukrainians who shot the plane down.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Ria said that it was indeed a Buk missile, but it was still the Ukrainians who shot the plane down.

Well, since all the other fancy theories have vanished, that's the last one they can defend. Without any proof.

[Rydygier 1309]

When I'm thinking about Russia - what a handful of wicked men does to own nation (not forgetting, those men are coming from that very nation and not forgetting, what said Russian quoted by me some time ago - so this people's existence as a nation is in agony), how easily that nation allows for that; about the state that USES own citizens, in such a way and for such purposes; about freightening mentality, that is needed to think, it is good thing to act like that... Just horrible. It's tragic how hopelessly deep Russians are entangled into this moral shit. But what can be done to help them free from that cursed vicious circle (or spiral) of mendacity, hate, violence and contempt?

http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/lbid,8581,title,Separatysci-tlumacza-dlaczego-nie-przestrzegaja-zawieszenia-broni,nazywo.html?ticaid=11371a

Yesterday separatists tried to attack the city Wasylivka from the Panteleimovka. Press Center of antiterrorist operation indicates that a group of about 200 men was wearing a Russian uniform, and the operation conducted under the flag of Russia. Ukrainians repelled the recaptured.

Meanwhile, separatists explained why he did not comply, signed by himself in Minsk on September 5 ceasefire. As of now explain, they were not participants of the meeting, and only the observers, and the document that was signed only "protocol calling a lot of doubts."

Edited September 14, 2014 by Rydygier

[aleksadragutin 9]

Probably. Probably?

Russian media accuses the Ukrainians of crucifying children and never even bothers to post a retraction. Basically the same standards of reporting as a jihadist mouthpiece that posts YouTube videos of car bombings.

There is not the slightest bit of equivalence between Russian and Western media. None.

The Western press is in a dreadful state, but that is a story for another time, because what's going on in Russia right now is just beyond the pale. Channel One makes the National Enquirer look like a paragon of truth.

I said probably because I really don't know, and all I have is the word of other people for it. Personally I never came across any crucified children in Russian media. I would encourage people to use the word "probably" more often.

[umpo 10]

Message about german tanks in western Ukraine created some panic among russian internet users)

[

Personally I never came across any crucified children in Russian media.

Russian first channel did a message about children crucified by ukrainian National Guard in Slavyansk

I have seen it myself on TV

Almost every russian tv channel is full of anti-ukrainian and anti-western propaganda, unfortunately

[Tonci87 163]

Message about german tanks in western Ukraine created some panic among russian internet users)

[

Russian first channel did a message about children crucified by ukrainian National Guard in Slavyansk

I have seen it myself on TV

Almost every russian tv channel is full of anti-ukrainian and anti-western propaganda, unfortunately

I can already see the propaganda. German fashist tanks came to help the fashist Ukrainian Army.....

[surpher 1]

I said probably because I really don't know, and all I have is the word of other people for it. Personally I never came across any crucified children in Russian media. I would encourage people to use the word "probably" more often.

Here it is.

(StopFake) Lies: Crucifixion on «Channel One»

[vilas 477]

and my aunt sits and watch it 12 hour daily and is violent to her own family - thats why 4 pages ago i said to our new friend from Moscow that there must be subliminal stuff inside, or other sociotechnic used (i do not have TV in my home, i do not watch TV, neither my friends, nor my girlfriend, we are tv-free)

[aleksadragutin 9]

and my aunt sits and watch it 12 hour daily and is violent to her own family - thats why 4 pages ago i said to our new friend from Moscow that there must be subliminal stuff inside, or other sociotechnic used (i do not have TV in my home, i do not watch TV, neither my friends, nor my girlfriend, we are tv-free)

Wait, if your aunt is Russian, doesn't that mean that you are also?

[vilas 477]

i am mixed (Poland, Lithuania, a little of Russian blood with Serbian-like name too "Xyz-ych" maybe even Jewish name, i have no idea, because of my name i can even play Serb, people ask me if i am Serb), thats why i see differences, my family comes from region called "Vilenshczysna" (Vilnus-region) i do not have even Polish name "Xyz-vsky" like Kowalski (before war it was Poland, now Lithuania/Belarus) we found in Warsaw after 1958 when we were imprisoned by USSR in 1939 till death of Polish-Stalin Boleslaw Bierut (part of family is still there, part of family was born in Syberia on arrest and had status of being prisoner of war) father of my mother was railway officer in east, if he was army officer, he would be murdered in Katyn but because he was railway only, he survived war but our small piece of land on east was confiscated and turned into Kolhoz (11 hectare is small piece of land, 400 meters x 300 meters near Vonovo/Eishyski/Benakony, but even such property was not allowed in USSR and was confiscated, our house was turned into school, now it is school if i remember correctly, or was school in 1990, now i do not know cause i was there in 1991, maybe this building now doesn't exist anymore since last person who left in USSR died in St Petersburg and Grodno in 1990s there)

so for your curiosity - noone in my family have Polish name, we all speak Polish and Russian (i am terrible at gramma but i speak very good), but i had no occasion to move to Canada like few people from my family did after WW2 (famous fly division 304 defending in Battle Of England, cause brother of my grandfather was military in airforce and he was figting Germans in British airforce batalion 304) and now live in Toronto (escaping from communism) 20 years ago i had uncle in Leningrad (St.Petersburg now)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Air_Forces_in_France_and_Great_Britain if my part of family escaped in 1939 i would now be in Canada

Edited September 14, 2014 by vilas

[beastcat 14]

I said probably because I really don't know, and all I have is the word of other people for it. Personally I never came across any crucified children in Russian media. I would encourage people to use the word "probably" more often.

They are saying that the army crucified the child of a woman in front of her and then they tied the woman to their tanks and drove around the town in it. So yeah, what about thw whole western media is not much better than russian?

Edit: I was ninjad really hard

[aleksadragutin 9]

They are saying that the army crucified the child of a woman in front of her and then they tied the woman to their tanks and drove around the town in it. So yeah, what about thw whole western media is not much better than russian?

Edit: I was ninjad really hard

It really is not that much better.

[beastcat 14]

It really is not that much better.

Hitler was not that bad. Actually, he was almost as good as Jesus. Sure, Jesus is better, but not thaat much better, afterall, Hitler did build the Autobahnen.

[aleksadragutin 9]

Hitler was not that bad. Actually, he was almost as good as Jesus. Sure, Jesus is better, but not thaat much better, afterall, Hitler did build the Autobahnen.