Ukraine General

[oxmox 73]

A volunteer is called volunteer because he does something voluntarily, meaning he does not get money. Thats the definitition of a volunteer.

All the members of the volunteer battalions do not get any money ? Hard to believe this.

[beastcat 14]

All the members of the volunteer battalions do not get any money ? I dont believe this.

No, they don't get any money, thats why they are called volunteers. Even the money the regular army gets is more symbolic than anything (Up to 300$ a month if you are really lucky).

[mistyronin 1181]

No, they don't get any money, thats why they are called volunteers. Even the money the regular army gets is more symbolic than anything (Up to 300$ a month if you are really lucky).

That's not true.

Volunteer in military terms is the opposite of conscript, so the ones that join an Army because of their own will ( for example I was a professional soldier, as in my home-country there is no conscription, only a professional army ).

1. One who enters into, or offers for, any service of his/her own free will, especially when done without pay.

2. (military) One who enters into military service voluntarily, but who, when in service, is subject to discipline and regulations like other soldiers; -- opposed to conscript; specifically, a voluntary member of the organized militia of a country as distinguished from the standing army.

3. (law) A person who acts out of his own will without a legal obligation, such as a donor.

4.(botany, agriculture) A plant that grows spontaneously, without being cultivated on purpose; see volunteer plant in Wikipedia.

5. A native or resident of the American state of Tennessee.

Edited September 7, 2014 by MistyRonin

[beastcat 14]

That's not true.

Volunteer in military terms is the opposite of conscript, so the ones that join an Army because of their own will ( for example I was a professional soldier, as in my home-country there is no conscription, only a professional army ).

Well in Ukraine terms its people who get weapons and orders from the state and have to buy equipment themselves. People who volunteer for the army (The actual official one) are part of that and receive their money, but the volunteers from the volunteer batallions go to the batallions, not the army and don't get any money. The volunteer batallions are under the command of the army, but have much more freedom (Which can lead to some nasty situations, they have basically Blackwater autonomy)

If you want to volunteer into the army you contact the local recruitment office, if you want to join a volunteer batallion you call the head/secretary of that batallion and meet up with them. The state can't pay an entire normal army anyway.

Thats also the reason why there are no real "volunteer batallions" in "normal" wars.

Edited September 7, 2014 by beastcat

[mistyronin 1181]

It seems that Putin know's how to make himself loved...

( The Guardian ) Russians open new front after Estonian official is captured in 'cross-border raid'

Eston Kohver taken to Moscow and paraded on TV as 'spy' two days after Obama's visit to Baltic state

The Estonian-Russia border at Luhamaa does not look like a new Checkpoint Charlie. Set among the wooded plains that mark Nato and the European Union's eastern-most territory, the crossing is more likely to be the site of long lines of idling lorries than machine-gun nests and prisoner exchanges.

But that era of post-cold war calm may have come to an end on Friday morning, when, according to several Estonian accounts, smoke grenades detonated at an Estonian customs post, and all radio and telephone signals were jammed as armed Russian men suddenly materialised and dragged away a local official.

His name is Eston Kohver, a counter-intelligence officer in the Estonian security agency, Kapo, whose job over the past few years has been to keep tabs on the smuggling cartels trying to sneak merchandise through the Luhamaa crossing.

And also interesting article that lists some of the last abductions by Russian forces in foreign soil:

( NY Times ) Russia and Estonia Differ Over Detention

This is hardly the first time the Russian government has been accused of kidnapping across international borders.

In 2012, Leonid Razvozzhayev, a Russian political opposition leader who fled to Ukraine and contacted United Nations officials in Kiev in hopes of applying for political asylum, was forced into a van outside his lawyer’s office and reappeared under arrest in Moscow. The Russian authorities said he had surrendered.

And this summer, the Ukrainian government accused Russia of abducting Nadiia Savchenko, a Ukrainian helicopter navigator, who was apparently detained by separatists in eastern Ukraine and resurfaced in prison in the Russian city of Voronezh. Russian officials said she had crossed the border posing as a refugee.

Edited September 7, 2014 by MistyRonin

[vilas 477]

Van Rompuy -EU is ready to cut sanctions off, http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,1356,title,Rozejm-sie-utrzymuje-UE-gotowa-zdjac-sankcje-na-Rosje,wid,16866785,wiadomosc.html

nice... as i told before

and US magazine Foreign Policy wrote that Putin probably gonna start to "free" Russians in baltic states such as some cities in Estonia which have a lot of Russians plus than Putin would try to use small nuclear weapons on minor states "cause rest of west will not die for them"

http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/rosjanie-coraz-bardziej-dumni-ze-swojego-kraju-buduje-sie-poczucie-ze-rosja-staje-sie/bvlq2

Russians more and more proud from their country - so as in 1930s in Germany, now they are becoming threat to world and they are ignored, as Van Rompuy already says about cutting off sanctions

meanwhile: son of commie intel officer (from communist era) organize pro-Russian (very small, few people who came cause they were paid ) demostration under Ukrainian embassy and ... threatens Polish conservative journalists

http://niezalezna.pl/59140-nastepny-powinien-byc-wildstein-organizator-proputinowskiej-manifestacji-o-grozbach-wobec-pere

the same time Dimitry Medvedev says to hit Europe with "asymetrical sanctions" http://www.biztok.pl/gospodarka/prezydent-rosji-grozi-asymetryczna-reakcja-na-sankcje-linie-lotnicze-beda-bankrutowac_a17530

Edited September 8, 2014 by vilas

[surpher 1]

(BBC) Russia could hit EU with flight ban

"If there are sanctions related to the energy sector, or further restrictions on Russia's financial sector, we will have to respond asymmetrically... For example, restrictions in the transport sector.

"We work on the basis of friendly relations with our partners, and that's why Russia's skies are open to flights. But if we are restricted then we'll have to respond," he told Vedomosti (in Russian).

(The New York Times) Evidence Grows of Russian Orthodox Clergy’s Aiding Ukraine Rebels

“They were working hand in hand,†said Victor Butko, the pro-Ukrainian editor of a small newspaper here shut down by the rebels during their nearly three-month occupation of the town. He said priests at an Orthodox church in the center of town often blessed the rebel fighters and let them store ammunition on church grounds.

Edited September 8, 2014 by surpher

[Dwarden 1125]

(BBC) Russia could hit EU with flight ban

(The New York Times) Evidence Grows of Russian Orthodox Clergy’s Aiding Ukraine Rebels

fight ban is two sided sword, from each overflight the controller of the space receives sum of money (similar like fee for pass via national waters on ships)

so I say, lets ban the flights ;)

[mistyronin 1181]

fight ban is two sided sword, from each overflight the controller of the space receives sum of money (similar like fee for pass via national waters on ships)

so I say, lets ban the flights ;)

In fact if the Kremlin take steps in that direction, Russia will end like the USSR, but with the difference that Russia doesn't have all the former USSR occupied countries in Eastern Europe.

So Putin would create a weak USSR.

( ITAR-TASS ) Ukraine's Poroshenko to visit Mariupol Monday

Edited September 8, 2014 by MistyRonin

[beastcat 14]

http://youtu.be/mXogd2veAuY

[aleksadragutin 9]

In fact if the Kremlin take steps in that direction, Russia will end like the USSR, but with the difference that Russia doesn't have all the former USSR occupied countries in Eastern Europe.

So Putin would create a weak USSR.

( ITAR-TASS ) Ukraine's Poroshenko to visit Mariupol Monday

Territory doesn't always equal strength.

[mistyronin 1181]

It seems that the surplus store had the T80s in discount...

Territory doesn't always equal strength.

Indeed, but the natural resources, industry and population of the territories yes.

[Tonci87 163]

It is interesting to see how few people came to watch this parade....

[surpher 1]

(Bellingcat) Images Show the Buk that Downed Flight MH17 Inside Russia, Controlled by Russian Troops

[aleksadragutin 9]

It seems that the surplus store had the T80s in discount...

Indeed, but the natural resources, industry and population of the territories yes.

Sure, but is it worth maintaining order in a hostile environment, supplying remote areas etc.? That is one of the reasons why USSR cracked in the first place.

[beastcat 14]

The guy also talks about issues with the volunteer batallions, which have also done crimes (Again, blackwater style freedom leads to blackwater style actions).

[mistyronin 1181]

Sure, but is it worth maintaining order in a hostile environment, supplying remote areas etc.? That is one of the reasons why USSR cracked in the first place.

It lasted for more than 40 years keeping order in that invaded countries.

The main reason the USSR cracked was their economic system and the isolation from the rest of the world.

The Communist economy can't make a country progress. That's why even China turned to a Capitalist economy ( while keeping an authoritarian system ).

[aleksadragutin 9]

It lasted for more than 40 years keeping order in that invaded countries.

The main reason the USSR cracked was their economic system and the isolation from the rest of the world.

The Communist economy can't make a country progress. That's why even China turned to a Capitalist economy ( while keeping an authoritarian system ).

Yeah, I'm talking about Russia and Europe today. Today it would be much harder to maintain.

[beastcat 14]

[ProfTournesol 956]

(Bellingcat) Images Show the Buk that Downed Flight MH17 Inside Russia, Controlled by Russian Troops

(BBC) MH17 disaster: Russians 'controlled BUK missile system'

Distinctive shrapnel damage to the plane points to a fragmentation weapon - such as a BUK - downing the plane.

The Kremlin had previously suggested that the missile was from a Ukrainian fighter jet.

Pro-Russian rebels have denied any possession of a BUK.

However, photographs and videos cast doubt on the claim by the Kremlin and pro-Russian rebels - that they did not have a BUK missile launcher on their territory.

Three eyewitnesses, all civilians, separately told Panorama that they saw a missile-launcher in rebel-held territory a few hours before the Boeing jet was hit.

One eyewitness saw the missile-launcher roll off a low-loader at Snezhnoye, around ten miles from the crash site, at around 13:30 local time (10:30 GMT).

"We just saw it being offloaded and when the BUK started its engine the exhaust smoke filled the whole town square," he said.

'Pure Russian accents'

The eyewitness told the BBC that the crew struck him as Russian soldiers: "Well-disciplined, unlike the rebels, and not wearing the standard Ukrainian camouflage uniform sported by government and rebel troops alike."

"They had pure Russian accents. They say the letter 'g' differently to us," he said.

In eastern Ukraine, most people speak Russian but the BUK crew did not speak Russian with a local accent.

[mistyronin 1181]

( The Guardian ) MH17: Dutch Safety Board to publish preliminary report on disaster

Authorities in the Netherlands are due to publish a preliminary report on the July downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine.

The Dutch Safety Board (DSB) says the report, due on Tuesday, will include details gathered from the cockpit voice recorder, the flight data recorder, satellite and other images, and radar information.

It is not clear whether the evidence will provide any proof of who fired the missile thought to have brought down the plane, killing all 298 people on board.

On the day of the disaster, a pro-Russia separatist leader claimed on social media that his forces had shot down a Ukrainian warplane but then removed the claim after it became clear a civilian airliner had been brought down. The Ukrainian government has also published intercepts apparently between separatists suggesting their side fired the missile. It is unclear whether the DSB report will comment on the authenticity of those intercepts.

[aleksadragutin 9]

(BBC) MH17 disaster: Russians 'controlled BUK missile system'

Apparently, news are now "this guy I found laying in the street said he saw...". Kind of unreliable, don't you think?

[ProfTournesol 956]

Apparently, news are now "this guy I found laying in the street said he saw...". Kind of unreliable, don't you think?

I don't know. That's not the first time people were reported saying the same thing, and it's quite corroborating the announcement of the rebel leader claming on social medias that they had shot a Ukrainian plane. But of course, i'm eager to get some more obvious proof, if they ever come.

[beastcat 14]

Apparently, news are now "this guy I found laying in the street said he saw...". Kind of unreliable, don't you think?

Some random guy who says he saw something isn't worth anything on himself, but when his words fit perfectly in the entire picture which consists off all the other evidence, his words get meaning.

[oxmox 73]

The OSCE - Examples of (SMM) Patrolling missions

Latest from OSCE Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) to Ukraine based on information received as of 18:00 (Kyiv time), 7 September 2014

Luhansk area, Donetsk, vicinities of Mariupol, Kharkiv, Dnipropetovsk, Kherson, Antonivka, Chernivtsi, Ivano-Frankivs, Lviv, Kyiv.

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/123299

Edited September 8, 2014 by oxmox