[SP] Pilgrimage

[Rydygier 1304]

Mission updated to 1.90. Changelog:

- tweaks, fixes and balancing for reputation mechanics;

- more interesting radio comm when player is hunted;

- fixed a mistake with doubled stronghold coordinates (at Frini);

- enhanced tracking/hunting - more groups may be allocated depending on Alex's fame;

- new statistics for debriefing;

- civilians may report player's position or trail to the hostiles depending on reputation;

- fixed church mark in Chalkeia.

Boosted chance of civilian reporting trail, as main cause of no hunt is anyway lack of any tracker group in range...

[pvt. partz 248]

It does work without errors if you have hotfix 3 installed. I managed to resume the game after Arma crashed. However there was a new pbo in it to do with bulletcracks, and I wonder if that is causing the drastic drop in FPS.

Ok, thanks bud. I think I will stick with JSRS for now. Even with all of the mods I run, I get buttery fps.

@Rydygier

I know you are totally focused on Sp but once again, just so you know who is playing mp I for one still hope you find time in the future to refine it. MP Pilgrimage is pretty much all I ever play!,...everyday!

[Rydygier 1304]

I for one still hope you find time in the future to refine it.

Here's the thing: after last MP wip version three problems we have:

- there are some bugs, that I was unable to remove due to lack of knowledge (don't understand nature of these bugs, thus see no way to fix), mostly loosing yellow actions after resume saved session client-side, that, as I heard, are back at respawn;

- limited testing possibility (now TADST, I'm using to test things client-side is for some reason broken to me, so I can't test at all);

- since then too much changed, to adjust existing version, and many changes may need extra attention for MP, for example all the comms. New MP version must be made from the scratch basing on latest SP. Thus all thing must wait also till I'll be sure, SP is final, as I don't want parallel development.

And of course I still hate MP scripting voodoo, so apart from above and time I need to find also any enthusiasm. :)

[Alpha-Kilo 36]

Rydygier, I am trying the latest version 1.90 SP and I cannot sell Loot directly from corpses. have you removed this very welcome feature or do I have to look for conflicting addons?

[law-giver 189]

Rydygier, I am trying the latest version 1.90 SP and I cannot sell Loot directly from corpses. have you removed this very welcome feature or do I have to look for conflicting addons?

It worked fine for me mate, quite possibly a mod! ;)

@Rydygier

I have a rented Vilayer Arma3 server, if you want to use it to test your MP version let me know and i'll password it and give you the password so you can test it alone if needed. Let me know. ;)

[Rydygier 1304]

have you removed this very welcome feature

Nope, is on place and was working for me just fine today. If conflicting mods, then not typical way. Lately, apparently due to some A3 update, sometimes some actions aren't visible eg sell content at boxes until you try from different angles for a while, maybe this is it?

if you want to use it to test your MP version let me know

:) OK, thanks. But most likely not soon...

[Alpha-Kilo 36]

Law-Giver, Thanks for your reply. So I'll disable the mods and I'll report back if I find the culprit. In case someone has the same problem, here's my list of addons:

AGM, CBA, DragonFyre, MGI HUD tactical glasses, RYD_BT, RYD_Incognito, Tao folding map, Tort_DynamicWeather (delay set to -1800), TPW_Mods (TPW hud disabled), Unlocked_Uniforms

Rydygier, I know that some actions are hard to trigger and you have to dance around corpses to find the sweet spot. I will try more an see if this could be a solution. Thanks for pointing it out.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Alpha-Kilo

[pvt. partz 248]

mostly loosing yellow actions after resume saved session client-side, that, as I heard, are back at respawn;

Yes the yellow menu options do return but only if you save and exit

As for your future MP endeavors go, I totally understand. You gave us what you can and for that we are still having a ball!!!

[law-giver 189]

Law-Giver, Thanks for your reply. So I'll disable the mods and I'll report back if I find the culprit.

I find standing at a dead units feet and close to his waist gives me that sweet spot to sell loot. As Rydygier said it's a bit of a pain at times but it does work and I've got several mods running. ;)

[pvt. partz 248]

Hello Alpha_Kilo

AGM, CBA, DragonFyre, MGI HUD tactical glasses, RYD_BT, RYD_Incognito, Tao folding map, Tort_DynamicWeather (delay set to -1800), TPW_Mods (TPW hud disabled), Unlocked_Uniforms

I think I read somewhere that you should also disable the EBS option in TPW as it conflicts with the same function in AGM. I don't know how to explain technically but the two mods provide the same function as far as enemy supression goes......something like that.

[Alpha-Kilo 36]

Thanks for your replies!

I followed the advice of Pvt. Partz and disabled TPW_EBS because it might conflict with AGM. I started a fresh Pilgrimage and made sure to stand at the feet of a dead unit and moved the mouse slowly and carefully as Law-Giver suggested. The result is: Selling loot directly from the bodies works again. So thanks for the help, guys.

[law-giver 189]

Thanks for your replies!

I started a fresh Pilgrimage and made sure to stand at the feet of a dead unit and moved the mouse slowly and carefully as Law-Giver suggested.

Glad you got it sorted in the end. ;)

[Alpha-Kilo 36]

Unfortunately not. It worked briefly when I made a quick test. After work I played again and the option to sell directly from a body was unavailable again. I really concentrated on looting and took all the time in the world to approach the bodies carefully, and move the mouse slowly in all directions to find the right spot but no luck. All the other options which require careful positioning such as openng a corpse's inventory, etc. worked well.

It is probably irrelevant but I also noticed severe lags, especially when driving a car. Switching back to TPW's hud from MGI tactical glasses helped but there was no effect on the looting of corpses. So it seems I'll have to investigate further.

[cmwilson 10]

An enemy fireteam sends a radio message using a proper name. Their Team Leader is killed. Fireteam sends another message but uses the same proper name. At least, I think this happened. It's hard to know who's on the radio. Minor nit, but probably the name should change.

It would be nice to have an itemization of infamy at the end.

It might be nice if 'sell body' also cleared that body.

How about this: if ambient combat is on, and fame is positive, and you clear some/all of the enemy strongholds and airfields, you have taken pressure off the local resistance and units friendly to you can be spawned in AC.

[Rydygier 1304]

So it seems I'll have to investigate further.

That would by my advice. Seems, yours mod set is troublemaking.

An enemy fireteam sends a radio message using a proper name. Their Team Leader is killed. Fireteam sends another message but uses the same proper name. At least, I think this happened. It's hard to know who's on the radio. Minor nit, but probably the name should change.

In general name changes - it's taken name of the current group leader. But after that some messages are delayed by random few seconds to make them less cyclic/regular. So if you kill the TL during that interval, name will stay unchanged for this one. In extreme case message will be sent, while whole group is dead. Should be possible to correct that though. EDIT: all right. In the next version in such cases that particular message will be omitted. IMO better, than changing name for them - a man, who was about to sent this message is dead, so no message - others are focused on his death meanwhile.

It might be nice if 'sell body' also cleared that body.

Decided otherwise. Some people like to see bodies of past battles left around. Also no real explanation, why Alex should bury each body he's looting.

It would be nice to have an itemization of infamy at the end.

What means "itemization" word here? Infamy is listed in debriefing, same as glory and fame.

How about this: if ambient combat is on, and fame is positive, and you clear some/all of the enemy strongholds and airfields, you have taken pressure off the local resistance and units friendly to you can be spawned in AC.

Well, that's possible and good motivation/reward for clearing strongholds/airfields. Worthy of consideration at least. Opinions anyone? I forsee one limitation here - groups has to be guerilla type, so will be hardcoded to vanilla FIA, as I see no way to determine, which of custom factions are regulars, and which - insurgents.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Rydygier

[law-giver 189]

Well, that's possible and good motivation/reward for clearing strongholds/airfields. Worthy of consideration at least. Opinions anyone? I forsee one limitation here - groups has to be guerilla type, so will be hardcoded to vanilla FIA, as I see no way to determine, which of custom factions are regulars, and which - insurgents.

While it may be a good idea in principal i think it detracts from the main aim of the mission, which is to find your brother. Personally i don't always bother to do the airports/airfields and/or strongholds unless it's on my route. I think as the mission is now is where it should be. But that's only my opinion, it's Rydygier who really knows where's this is going to end up. But in the end it's the ideas that have made this what it is, and Rydygiers magic. ;)

[Rydygier 1304]

Truth is, similar thing was proposed some time ago - to expand supporting local defiance aspect. And indeed, was rejected due to this reason exactly - to keep mission focus and avoid blurring the goal by competitive distractions. For example, although I for sure admire, what SaOk's WLA is, and what amount of effort it represents, tried it few times but never was able to sustain interest for long, because there was... too many different things begging for my attention/time/effort (probably the only one scenario with THAT kind of problem :) ). In the result I've been hurled from one quest to another by some time and finally chosen nothing and got frustrated instead - apparently not my cup of tea, and so I wouldn't like to turn Pilgrimage into something like this. Clarity of the goal is important here.

So it is about finding the optimal balance - what's still an welcomed enrichment, and what becomes blurring distraction. Where too many small enrichments aren't desired too. So, is this too much or not yet?

Edited February 17, 2015 by Rydygier

[alky_lee 276]

Truth is, similar thing was proposed some time ago - to expand supporting local defiance aspect. And indeed, was rejected due to this reason exactly - to keep mission focus and avoid blurring the goal by competitive distractions. For example, although I for sure admire, what SaOk's WLA is, and what amount of effort it represents, tried it few times but never was able to sustain interest for long, because there was... too many different things begging for my attention/time/effort (probably the only one scenario with THAT kind of problem :) ). In the result I've been hurled from one quest to another by some time and finally chosen nothing and got frustrated instead - apparently not my cup of tea, and so I wouldn't like to turn Pilgrimage into something like this. Clarity of the goal is important here.

So it is about finding the optimal balance - what's still an welcomed enrichment, and what becomes blurring distraction. Where too many small enrichments aren't desired too. So, is this too much or not yet?

I have no objection to FIA being a small part of AC, but no more than that. The chance of FIA spawning could increase with Alex's reputation/glory. It would make a change from kill everybody. Alex could even help them out if he wanted to but no reward for doing so, other than a feeling of satisfaction.

[cmwilson 10]

What means "itemization" word here? Infamy is listed in debriefing, same as glory and fame.

Well, that's possible and good motivation/reward for clearing strongholds/airfields. Worthy of consideration at least. Opinions anyone? I forsee one limitation here - groups has to be guerilla type, so will be hardcoded to vanilla FIA, as I see no way to determine, which of custom factions are regulars, and which - insurgents.

By itemization, I meant a list of actions and scores that add up to infamy. I had an infamy score but am not sure what I did to deserve it. Maybe I am misreading the score. I think it was -170 or so. I thought I had been a paragon of justice.

For the friendly AC, maybe I'm thinking according to my play style. Intel leads me to the body pretty quickly. After that, I feel the obligation to help the brother's crew. They're alive, after all. But the long drive back to the body and then the boat can be a bit tedious. The additional boats should help some, but didn't this last playthrough. I figured a little plot development and some subtle changes would freshen things for the drive back. It could make the ending a bit more hopeful, though maybe not the theme you're going for.

By the way, once the body is found, intel and conversations with locals become irrelevant. Some variety here, maybe? They know where a vehicle is, or can sell you a rifle?

[Rydygier 1304]

By itemization, I meant a list of actions and scores that add up to infamy. I had an infamy score but am not sure what I did to deserve it.

Well, infamy you're getting basically by civilian kills. So you probably have listed them on the first screen of debriefing. Each was -10 to -20. If you got -170, then you had to kill quite a few civilians. Unless in 1.90 there is still something wrong with reputation events...

By the way, once the body is found, intel and conversations with locals become irrelevant. Some variety here, maybe? They know where a vehicle is, or can sell you a rifle?

I never was really convinced to the idea of shopping in Pilgrimage. By intention Alex has to gather gear on his own. Yes, intel is irrelevant, when you achieve, what was your goal here, except rare cases, where people may mark for you near stronghold. It's another part of keeping mission focused/consistent. I don't want turn Pilgrimage into "Alex wandering randomly doing random quests for local population, buyng stuff from the blacksmith and listening gossips in the tavern". The pool currently looks like this:

nothing, a direction (true/false), churches exclusion, some enemy presence revealed, circle intel, intel for assassination (circle, hidden stash or treasure location, if present), pointing a stronghold (probably too rare - never saw it in regular play).

I can make pointing strongholds more frequent and add pointing neaerst empty vehicle.

OK then, some FIA presence as part of AC will do no harm to mission focus, I think, when bounded with reputation/glory...

[Alpha-Kilo 36]

I have to come back to the subject of my missing option to sell loot directly from the body. I experimented with vanilla and with a choice of addons recommended in this thread. I did not use any AI enhancers, AGM and the MGI hud. I found out that I can sell loot from some bodies, but not from all. Here are things I tried:

I attacked a hideout with the companion. I could sell loot from one of the dead AAF soldiers but not from a second one. So I thought, maybe my companion killed one of the guys and the option is given only for personal kills. To verify this I killed my poor companion and could sell items from his corpse. I attacked a frendly fireteam to get some easy kills. (They angrily said "hold your fire" but didn't shoot back. Maybe I was too quick or they willingly gave their virtual lives to assist my testing.) I could not sell loot from their bodies. I also attacked CSAT and I also could not sell loot from their bodies. Finally I checked dead bodies I found lying around (AC victims) and I also couldn't sell from their bodies.

Several tests with different addon combinations all showed that I could reliably sell loot from my companion's corpse. In the other cases the mousewheel menu appeared quickly and showed all expected options such as rearm, inventory, prepare an empty box etc. Just the sell content option was missing.

Some questions:

- Can addons possibly cause trouble if I can sell items from my companion's body?

- Should I be able to sell loot from all corpses regardless of who killed them or are there any limitations?

- Is there anything else I can do to help you to help me?

[Rydygier 1304]

Several tests with different addon combinations

Yes, but for possible fixing important is the only one combination - vanilla. :) In vanilla I can sell from any body, except civilians, thus this couldn't be vanilla, or I can't reproduce your issue for some reason. The key is this reason.

I could sell loot from one of the dead AAF soldiers but not from a second one.

Weird. It was vanilla?

I attacked a frendly fireteam to get some easy kills.

What friendly fire team? There isn't (yet) any friendly fire teams in Pilgrimage. That shows, it wasn't vanilla nor the Pilgrimage origin group, but from some mod - no wonder, you haven't sell action. Same may be for other such cases.

- Can addons possibly cause trouble if I can sell items from my companion's body?

It's expected - you should be able to sell items from your companion's body.

Should I be able to sell loot from all corpses regardless of who killed them or are there any limitations?

Exceptions are temporary spawns excluding AC, that means ambient civilians. This ability is limited of course to the units spawned by Pilgrimage code, not some third party addons. Killer doesn't matter. "Sell content" action is added to each alive unit existing on the map after init spawn. Later it's restored for each decached (when respawned) unit and added to each AC unit. Action is visible, when unit is dead. That's all.

- Is there anything else I can do to help you to help me?

:) Thanks. Focus on vanilla only. Then confirm problem with lack of selling for that hidden camp people or any other Pilgrimage-origining unit, rembering, if that was garrison, roadcheck, crew of something or not crew.

[Alpha-Kilo 36]

Thanks for the quick reply, Rydygier. Frankly speaking, I don't remember precisely which result was achieved with vanilla and which result was achieved with addons. That's why my message was so unclear. I had hoped that using only recommended addons would be just as good as vanilla and when I found out I could loot a corpse in a vanilla game I quickly moved on to test with some addons and then with some more. But I understand that this was not thorough enough to produce useful results. I'll test again, strictly vanilla this time, and post the result.

Regarding friendly units: I am referring to US troops. I called them friendly because they always ignore me, even when I poke them with a gun. In TPW's tactical glasses they appear in blue and don't change to orange (which indicates hostility.)

Re companion: Just to avoid a possible mis-understanding: In my tests, both vanilla and with recommended addons, I could indeed sell loot from my companion's corpse.

[Rydygier 1304]

Regarding friendly units: I am referring to US troops. I called them friendly because they always ignore me, even when I poke them with a gun. In TPW's tactical glasses they appear in blue and don't change to orange (which indicates hostility.)

And from where these come from? There shouldn't be such/any friendly groups in vanilla Pilgrimage, only resistance and east, both set as hostile to the west player, except occasional armed civilians. So one thing I see here, you have any friendly groups spawned (don't know, why). Second - what is the source of these groups? if not Pilgrimage, but eg TPW's skirmish, then there is no any problem - external spawns will not get "sell content" action, as I said before, and may be friendly. Be sure, you disabled ANY other mods, especially those spawning troops, if you want to confirm your issue for vanilla Pilgrimage.

In my tests, both vanilla and with recommended addons, I could indeed sell loot from my companion's corpse.

That's good.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Rydygier

[Alpha-Kilo 36]

I didn't use any addons to deliberately spawn BluFor in, except TPW including Skirmish. So this must be the source of my friends. This also means that most of the results I posted above where achieved with addons, one of them being TPW. But my next result will be vanilla.