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Hey Olds! Could you maybe give some input on how anyone could quickly test the latest RAM version out and compare the effects it has on RHS and A3 vehicles? Also, did you evaluate if ACE has any effects on RAM?

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So do I get idea of it correctly. With this mods I can have normal fight T-90 (from RHS) vs Leopard 2 (from BWmod) or any RHS aginst arma 3 tanks? And there will be no OP tanks, like 5 T-90 tanks can`t kill one leopard?

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@Gunter Severloh

 

Sure, I added some class examples to my post.

 

@croguy

 

Please allow me to answer that since Olds is currently not available. You can use the diagnostics exe in the development build to visualize vehicle damage. If a mod works with RHS then it will work with RAM.

 

@przemro

 

Yes you can, but I can't promise that 3rd party content won't be OP.

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Hey, quick question: how is performance calculated in regards to KE rounds? I've taken a look through the config and noticed that the caliber values seem to use the same maths as the HEAT penetrators, but shells also have different hit values. I'm guessing that the hit values are stated to describe damage to soft vehicles, and caliber in regards to penetration, and if that were correct it would make for a pleasantly easy thing to configure, but I'm looking for confirmation as to how the system works and I understand that it might be more complicated than that.

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@Gunter Severloh

 

Sure, I added some class examples to my post.

 

@croguy

 

Please allow me to answer that since Olds is currently not available. You can use the diagnostics exe in the development build to visualize vehicle damage. If a mod works with RHS then it will work with RAM.

 

@przemro

 

Yes you can, but I can't promise that 3rd party content won't be OP.

@ Bakerman     "Excuse Me" Ive really enjoyed the previous Baked (ais)  , realarmor modifications. I have just one  question    about the latest  available download..  It did not arrive with a server  key.   Where can I get it?

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another question? does anyone know of any conflicts with ACE3 ... I would like to put this on my server if it is MP compatible.

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Sweet. Is Olds not around though? Might be good to update the first post of this topic :)

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Yeah unfortunately Olds is away. The first post will be updated as soon as he gets back online.

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RAM v0.1.1

Download Mega

Download Dropbox

Requirements

Important

  • Clear your @RAM\Addons folder when updating

Changelog

  • Removed Bohemia vehicle and weapon config edits

---

 

An update on RAM, RHS and the many months of research that's been concluded.

 

We set out to improve armor and researched everything about and related to it, what we've found is shocking:

  1. Penetration values are wrong. Stock 9mm bullets can penetrate almost 10mm RHA while anti tank warheads rely on splash damage with no penetration potential.
  2. Armor values are very wrong. Be it a flimsy metal shed that provides 20mm RHAe protection or the +600mm RHAe side armor on a Merkava (Slammer) tank, it's all completely bonkers.
  3. Vehicle hitpoints, wtf. This is by far the worst thing we've discovered. It seems that no current employee of Bohemia has any idea how it should be set up and to make matters worse mod makers simply follow their example. Olds typed up an entire wiki page on the subject https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3_Damage_Description
  4. Infantry special case. For reasons infantry use a separate armor process and cannot rely on regular object armor protection. They rely on HP buffs as an arcade and crude attempt to simulate increased protection.
  5. Damage inconsistency. Due to the inconsistent nature of object armor and health weapons have been configured to do damage against specific targets without much regards for cross compatibility between soft and armored targets.

The frustrating thing is that the RV engine has proven that it's capable of doing it all and more. We used information gathered from experiments and other sources to create a set of formulas for damage and penetration values. Armed with the formulas we proved that the RV engine is extremely consistent and much easier to configure than previously thought, the reason why it's such a pain to configure anything is because of the extreme inconsistency across assets.

 

We were able to fix or work around some of these issues with the ongoing work in RHS and the work done by Spartan, however fixing only half of something means that it's still broken. We've hit the wall and the rest is up to Bohemia.

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The new version has been frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage.

 

news_download_a3_3.png

Real Armor Mod v0.1.1

required_addons.png

Community Base addons A3

==================================================

You are not registered on Armaholic, or at least not that we are aware of. In the future we offer the possibility to authors to maintain their own pages.

If you wish to be able to do this as well please register on Armaholic and let me know about it.

This is not mandatory at all! Only if you wish to control your own content you are welcome to join, otherwise we will continue to follow your work like we have always done ;)

When you have any questions already feel free to PM or email me!

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We were able to fix or work around some of these issues with the ongoing work in RHS and the work done by Spartan, however fixing only half of something means that it's still broken. We've hit the wall and the rest is up to Bohemia.

 

 

How likely is it in your mind for Bohemia to tackle these issues and fix the armor systems?

Has there been any work done to this end?

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It will be sensless if they fix armor, and vehicles will still jumps like a rabbits (PhysX failures). They even cant reverse like they should. For me the game will be never finished and modders will need to take BIS job for them. Thats only my 2 cents. You did great job, Arma 3 still exist BEACUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU. Without you this would be just dummy engine with few features.

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RAM v0.1.1

Download Mega

Download Dropbox

Requirements

Important

  • Clear your @RAM\Addons folder when updating

Changelog

  • Removed Bohemia vehicle and weapon config edits

---

 

An update on RAM, RHS and the many months of research that's been concluded.

 

We set out to improve armor and researched everything about and related to it, what we've found is shocking:

  1. Penetration values are wrong. Stock 9mm bullets can penetrate almost 10mm RHA while anti tank warheads rely on splash damage with no penetration potential.
  2. Armor values are very wrong. Be it a flimsy metal shed that provides 20mm RHAe protection or the +600mm RHAe side armor on a Merkava (Slammer) tank, it's all completely bonkers.
  3. Vehicle hitpoints, wtf. This is by far the worst thing we've discovered. It seems that no current employee of Bohemia has any idea how it should be set up and to make matters worse mod makers simply follow their example. Olds typed up an entire wiki page on the subject https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3_Damage_Description
  4. Infantry special case. For reasons infantry use a separate armor process and cannot rely on regular object armor protection. They rely on HP buffs as an arcade and crude attempt to simulate increased protection.
  5. Damage inconsistency. Due to the inconsistent nature of object armor and health weapons have been configured to do damage against specific targets without much regards for cross compatibility between soft and armored targets.

The frustrating thing is that the RV engine has proven that it's capable of doing it all and more. We used information gathered from experiments and other sources to create a set of formulas for damage and penetration values. Armed with the formulas we proved that the RV engine is extremely consistent and much easier to configure than previously thought, the reason why it's such a pain to configure anything is because of the extreme inconsistency across assets.

 

We were able to fix or work around some of these issues with the ongoing work in RHS and the work done by Spartan, however fixing only half of something means that it's still broken. We've hit the wall and the rest is up to Bohemia.

 

 

 

 SomeBody make clear please, the new version will not affect ANY BI vehicles...? So RHS is a likely target if I still want to use realarmor? What else is affected when real armor

 is activated?       B)

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 SomeBody make clear please, the new version will not affect ANY BI vehicles...? So RHS is a likely target if I still want to use realarmor? What else is affected when real armor

 is activated?       B)

yyyyy, it seems they just deleted original configs, but it still work for RHS and Vanilla.

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How likely is it in your mind for Bohemia to tackle these issues and fix the armor systems?

Has there been any work done to this end?

 

The original RAM release was integrated into the game (not a copy paste) a long time ago. It was just a bunch of config edits, the easiest and most obvious issue at the time and it didn't require much effort. Other issues listed would require more effort and may not necessarily make sense for a business, but perhaps they'll surprise us with the upcoming engine update.

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yyyyy, it seems they just deleted original configs, but it still work for RHS and Vanilla.

 

 

Okay,  Thanks for the reply.   :ph34r:

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...and vehicles will still jumps like a rabbits (PhysX failures). ...

 

This has been annoying me significantly for a long time, and is as bad now as it has ever been.  :(

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... It seems that no current employee of Bohemia has any idea how it should be set up and to make matters worse mod makers simply follow their example. ..

 

Hopefully zGuba can take a look at the issues you have uncovered...

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Did you guys find a way to overcome the problem with missile weapons not having "caliber" value working for them ?

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Hee hee, sorta back - work schedule has kept me away but thanks entirely to Bakerman stuff still happened!

 

We've put a lot of RAM into RHS vehicles but there's so much content there that it's a bit slow to overhaul. I think the upshot is that if you want to build realistic armor and penetration dynamics into your weapons/vehicles, PM me--or, more effectively, find me on Skype at "Olds RAM". It's not too hard to do and frankly you should be doing it to make your content clean even for purely vanilla action. As I think Bakerman made clear, if you build vehicles or HEAT weapons according to the Arma "conventional wisdom", they will be utterly hosed.

 

I plan on cleaning up the RAM wiki and linking it on the front page so people can get a proper how-to (along with some of the other insights we picked up in the process of researching RAM).

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Did you guys find a way to overcome the problem with missile weapons not having "caliber" value working for them ?

Yes, we turn them into kinetic penetrators.

 

As a bonus you can also identify them as HEAT warheads and make them respond to anti-HEAT armor if you've bothered to add such to your vehicles (e.g. RHS vehicles with chobham, ERA, etc.).

P.S. Before anyone asks again, vanilla vehicles and weapons are hosed and frankly if/until BI releases their full configs to the community, they will stay that way. Personally I don't care b/c I don't play Arma for the fantasy setting anyway (hence RHS, CUP, etc.).

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