Gameplay Option: FMJ or hollow-point

[codarl 1]

After putting three 7.62 rounds in a target and still losing after taking a round to the face, I'm left slightly upset.

Though I know wounding an enemy on the battlefield is far more fruitfull in real life, there are numerous cases in ArmA where this is not the case: Hostage situations, Black ops, Being pitted against an overwhelming force (so that's most sp missions for you). Also having enemies simply not react to being wounded is also a slight game-breaker, swiftly followed by an alt-F4.

So what about a gameplay option that switches all ammo to either FMJ or HP? FMJ penetrates buildings and vehicles better, but inflicts less damage. Meanwhile, there is hollow-point amunition that will absolutely destroy whatever it hits first, but no more then that.

First thoughts is it's an acceptable workaround for fixing some gameplay issues.

[13islucky 10]

I'm pretty sure that any form of hollow pointed bullets are illegal to use on the battlefield. However, the choice between AP and FMJ is more reasonable, as AP is not illegal and provides benefits that standard FMJ cannot. Plus, with the new armour system HP would be pretty poop, in all honesty.

[instagoat 133]

Damage system needs to be worked on before this will even begin to matter. The type of round doesn't make enough of a difference, because all you can modify now is the damage, which in turn is influenced by mathematical modifiers and dice rolls (essentially) when you hit a target, not by the hit region and wether or not that region is behind bodyarmor.

[maturin 12]

Hollowpoints are useless against body armor. You'd just make it worse.

[Tonci87 163]

Hollowpoints are useless against body armor. You'd just make it worse.

This

All we need is a better reaction to beeing hit. Like falling to the ground or something.

[codarl 1]

This

All we need is a better reaction to beeing hit. Like falling to the ground or something.

Think of a traffic collision; If you hit a pedestrian they either A: Get mad at you (which means they're working fine) , or B: Walk somewhere else (which probably means they know they are in deep shit)

ArmA AI is pretty binary, they shoot, shoot, get hit, shoot, shoot, shoot, get hit again, shoot, shoot, get hit AGAIN and sink to the ground, dead. I hope they improve that aspect in time. I mean, they are currently shouting whatever they're doing ("covering, go!" , "grenade!", etc.). It should be possible to get some cries and screams in there, together with some animations.

I wonder why they did not further develop the agony state from ArmA2. The current "press Enter to restore" system doesn't really have my vote, but It's not really an issue.

As for the banning on Hollow-point ammunition: this

-The ban goes out the window the second a party joins the fight that is not part of the Hague convention. Furthermore, they do have their advantages in (for example) hostage situations, and police fancy them.

[rye1 21]

Would love to see HP. Would love to see AP. Would love to see API, HEI, HEAPI. :D

[Maxzy 12]

All we need is a better reaction to beeing hit. Like falling to the ground or something.

That's NOT all we need =). We need much more that just that. And even before better reactions we need proper damage system that doesn't rely on some d20 dice rolls. Yesterday I played Night Showcase and survived 7 !!! hits (no extended armor) - imagine if every time I was hit I would fall and had to get up. Even without it I felt what I thought I would never feel - burning desire to ragequit and never start this game again.

[Beagle 684]

That's NOT all we need =). We need much more that just that. And even before better reactions we need proper damage system that doesn't rely on some d20 dice rolls. Yesterday I played Night Showcase and survived 7 !!! hits (no extended armor) - imagine if every time I was hit I would fall and had to get up. Even without it I felt what I thought I would never feel - burning desire to ragequit and never start this game again.

Whats wrogn with a W20 dice, For wquite a while now it seem that the whole real life works that way, only in games you have defined rules how things should work.

[Maxzy 12]

only in games you have defined rules how things should work.

And that is exactly why people playing games. If it wasn't so what's the point then - every game would be just a roulette. Football or hockey or Counter Strike are so popular exactly for this reason - they have a certain well defined rules and mechanics - no one would compete in archery if your victory would depend on some random roll of dice. Actually I think you're just trolling.

[Beagle 684]

Im not trolling I just point out that randomization is very well suited to make things happening in games less predictable. It is in no way a good tzhing to have a chart saying "object X eplodes at amout Y of object Z".

[armilio 14]

And that is exactly why people playing games. If it wasn't so what's the point then - every game would be just a roulette. Football or hockey or Counter Strike are so popular exactly for this reason - they have a certain well defined rules and mechanics - no one would compete in archery if your victory would depend on some random roll of dice. Actually I think you're just trolling.

Also in football, archery, Counter-strike and war there is a little random-factor. :)

But for now is not a priority, I think.

[Maxzy 12]

Im not trolling I just point out that randomization is very well suited to make things happening in games less predictable. It is in no way a good tzhing to have a chart saying "object X eplodes at amout Y of object Z".

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against situations when you can randomly withstand a couple of rounds instead of dropping down from the first one every single time, but if this randomness adds up with bullets, randomly passing throug limbs without inflicting any damage, adds up with random hits not causing even that ridiculously looking twitch, adds up with random chance for AI to kill you with the first shot, adds up with many more randomnesses of which you don't know or don't uderstand how they work (because there is no documentation about it or even devs don't know about it either) - thats when I want to scream "WHAT DA FUCK?!?!?!" and demand my money back :).

[-Gews- 1]

Football or hockey or Counter Strike are so popular exactly for this reason - they have a certain well defined rules and mechanics - no one would compete in archery if your victory would depend on some random roll of dice. Actually I think you're just trolling.

This is not Counter-Strike, Unreal Tournament or Quake... real life is somewhat random. You don't get 5000 hit points, and each shot takes away a certain amount :j: this is not eSports, this is supposed to be a combined-arms simulator. There should be an element of randomness.

As for hollow point ammunition: no thank you. It won't and can't be properly represented with the current hitpoint system. It won't be properly represented so I'd rather not see it. Besides, most players are wearing something called body armor. Hollow-points don't help there, they can only make things worse.

[codarl 1]

Mind you that I'm not talking about the total simulation of ballistics.

The aim of this is to make a small setting that increases the damage on shots fired. Currently, I find myself playing around the quirks of the AI, which is "They don't die upon getting shot".

I highly doubt that any soldier will stand fearless in the open after taking four shots to the torso, body armour or not. Now, I know BIS is working on the AI, but simply having an option to double the damage from a shot seems like a nice, easy workaround for now.

[roshnak 41]

Im not trolling I just point out that randomization is very well suited to make things happening in games less predictable. It is in no way a good tzhing to have a chart saying "object X eplodes at amout Y of object Z".

Pretty sure he's saying that the damage system is not at all authentic. A small amount of randomness is fine, but if you get shot in the upper leg you should have a far higher chance of being killed than if you are shot in the hand. There are also a whole host of location based effects that would be appropriate for this series, beyond worse aim or being relegated to prone crawling.

As for hollow point ammunition: no thank you. It won't and can't be properly represented with the current hitpoint system. It won't be properly represented so I'd rather not see it. Besides, most players are wearing something called body armor. Hollow-points don't help there, they can only make things worse.

Wouldn't you rather just have a system where the effects of different types of ammunition can be better simulated? It seems like a more productive attitude than, "Can't do X with current system. Abandon X."

Edited December 18, 2013 by roshnak

[jgbtl292 0]

hollow point is not alowet soft core the same ;) only for practice

[-Gews- 1]

Wouldn't you rather just have a system where the effects of different types of ammunition can be better simulated? It seems like a more productive attitude than, "Can't do X with current system. Abandon X."

Of course. Yet with the current system, I don't see how it can be adequately portrayed, so I would not want it introduced right now.

[oldy41 61]

I think this really boils down to the frequent request, that there should be more feedback from AI for non-lethal hits. (I.e. not just shaking off that annoying fly and returning fire like an android.)

There are already a couple of feature / change requests which you might vote up.

Personally, for the time being I am using tpw_fall. Though far from perfect it is much more pleasing than vanilla.

[Yoshi 10]

Regarding the first reply, Illegal or not. In my opinion the fact that we can't even kill them as easily as they can us, to hell with the law. Bring on the Holo-point rounds!

[wipman 1]

I'm pretty sure that any form of hollow pointed bullets are illegal to use on the battlefield. However, the choice between AP and FMJ is more reasonable, as AP is not illegal and provides benefits that standard FMJ cannot. Plus, with the new armour system HP would be pretty poop, in all honesty.

The USMC uses hollow point bullets on A-Stan, because they're more accurate when shooting through cars glasses and are more harmful to unarmored human targets; they're called Mk 318 Mod 0 IRC.

[Beagle 684]

The USMC uses hollow point bullets on A-Stan, because they're more accurate when shooting through cars glasses and are more harmful to unarmored human targets; they're called Mk 318 Mod 0 IRC.

Interesting do you have any material that backs up this violation of the Hague convention.

[13islucky 10]

I just did some research in that. Apparently the Mk 318 is much like the Mk 262 in the way that it is hollow tip (or open tip) as opposed to hollow point. A hollow tip (OTM) is not the same as a "hollow point". The hollow tip of the OTM does not cause the round to mushroom as the hollow point of a "hollow point" does which is what the Hague Convention is referring to.

So yeah, OTM may be a viable alternative, unlike HP.

[wipman 1]

I just did some research in that. Apparently the Mk 318 is much like the Mk 262 in the way that it is hollow tip (or open tip) as opposed to hollow point. A hollow tip (OTM) is not the same as a "hollow point". The hollow tip of the OTM does not cause the round to mushroom as the hollow point of a "hollow point" does which is what the Hague Convention is referring to.

So yeah, OTM may be a viable alternative, unlike HP.

They also say that the Mk 310 Mod 0 improves the bullet's flying path, so it haves less fall over distance; but is not "the official USMC round", that's the M855.