Multiplayer not in playable state

[KeyCat 131]

new performance 1.08 server binary is already used on our stress test servers and by quite some admins ...

so if you have blazing FPS on those servers you can blame me later

Looking forward to test this weekend!

/KC

[Johnson11B2P 3]

Headless client doesn't work on the new or old server.exe. I then took off the password for the old server.exe and it worked. Haven't tried the new server.exe to test.

[bigpickle 0]

Dorph;2554694']Multiplayer is playable with a small mission 5-10players yes. But 30 players on a server for

more than 1hour is pretty far from ok.

30players was ok in arma2 - 30players was ok in arma1 even with hardware for that time.

Think to be able to host a server mission with a few scripts running and 30 players on are

not too much to ask by todays standards' date=' especially when this was fine on preivous versions

of the series. Are you running a server with 30players ?? Does it run ok ?? If so what hardware

are you running, and what mission are you running.

So i anyone can suggest me a coop mission that will keep a descent server-framerate on 30

players for some hours, pls point me in the right direction.[/quote']

+1 i have to agree

[whiztler 137]

[offtopic] Is there a script to show (hint) the server FPS? I know you can see it with #monitor, but I want other testers to see it as well. [/offtopic]

[Llano 11]

Yes, i think it is "diag_fps".

Sent from my LG-E975 using Tapatalk

[NeuroFunker 11]

+1 i have to agree

-totally disagree, playing 100+ games every week pvp games, which nearly all the same people.

[KeyCat 131]

@NeroFunker: Nothing personal but I don't know why you keep on harping that MP works excellent for you and your friends!? It's pretty clear that lots of people, me included, have performance issues in MP and never in the OFP/A1/A2 history I've experienced such a FPS hit joining a server (even empty ones) and I would say that if joining a server cut's your FPS by 40-50% compared to SP something wierd is going on!

We all know that BIS is aware of the MP performance problem and are working on it and I'm sure they will fix/improve it given time. There is already good progress made in the special 1.08 DS code and I'm confident more will follow when they get back from their well deserved holiday break.

I'm glad it works OK for you and your MP friends but you keep saying evertyhing is fine and that there are no problems - when there is for many of us - is just contra productive IMO. I'm not trying to pick a fight but clearly there are room for improvements when it comes to MP and even you and your PvP friends will benefit from it!

/KC

[Spanie Lisem 10]

I've been able to host 8 man games on a ADSL2+ connection comfortably

[NeuroFunker 11]

@NeroFunker: Nothing personal but I don't know why you keep on harping that MP works excellent for you and your friends!? It's pretty clear that lots of people, me included, have performance issues in MP and never in the OFP/A1/A2 history I've experienced such a FPS hit joining a server (even empty ones) and I would say that if joining a server cut's your FPS by 40-50% compared to SP something wierd is going on!

We all know that BIS is aware of the MP performance problem and are working on it and I'm sure they will fix/improve it given time. There is already good progress made in the special 1.08 DS code and I'm confident more will follow when they get back from their well deserved holiday break.

I'm glad it works OK for you and your MP friends but you keep saying evertyhing is fine and that there are no problems - when there is for many of us - is just contra productive IMO. I'm not trying to pick a fight but clearly there are room for improvements when it comes to MP and even you and your PvP friends will benefit from it!

/KC

because its not true, saying its unplayble with 30+ people, when im playing +100 man games every week? If your car is brokn, and you are not fixing it, that doesn't mean, the whole car market has broken cars. As it has been told a TON, it is 99% server/mission optimization dependent. Also i don't deny that multiplayer, as whole game needs fixes, optimizations. But it also doesn't mean, you can't have 100+ players matches at all.

Edited December 20, 2013 by NeuroFunker

[Smith25 10]

The Multiplayer is clearly working alot of us are playing it with no problems

[Hud Dorph 22]

Pls stop making useless comments about the multiplay works fine here. This thread are for servers that run coop missions with lots of scripting and lots of ai. It is well known that pvp runs fine, and its also well known that servers running coop mission with many players have very bad performance compared arma2, its even acknoledged by devs, and somethig ARE being done, and thats great.

I admit i should have made topic a little clearer, cuz multi play are playable on missions with few players or pvp.

If we can stick to the problems pls and be relieved that something are being done.

[NeuroFunker 11]

well, if you claim something, you could be more specific, saying "multiplayer is not at playable state", is a bit harsh indeed,

---------- Post added at 18:18 ---------- Previous post was at 18:15 ----------

Dorph;2582863']Pls stop making useless comments about the multiplay works fine here. This thread are for servers that run coop missions with lots of scripting and lots of ai. It is well known that pvp runs fine' date=' and its also well known that servers running coop mission with many players have very bad performance compared arma2, its even acknoledged by devs, and somethig ARE being done, and thats great.

I admit i should have made topic a little clearer, cuz multi play are playable on missions with few players or pvp.

If we can stick to the problems pls and be relieved that something are being done.[/quote']

btw was bored, did run up BECTI 12+12 bots with 8x soldiers each, had about 30 fps, that was plenty of AI's on that mission.

[Hud Dorph 22]

well, if you claim something, you could be more specific, saying "multiplayer is not at playable state", is a bit harsh indeed

I know, but cant change topic - but if u actually read first post, it is pretty clear.

[terox 316]

Unless you have backend access to a dedicated server that is running a lot of players you do not know how the server is performing.

As there aren't that many names in this thread that I recognise as server admins, please stop telling admins that their servers are running fine. Its simply not true.

On a more technical level

This thread is really about Server cycle rate, this is not the same as a clients Frames per second.

FPS measures how many frames are being drawn a second, this is a graphical value.

Servers do not run any graphics and their performance is rated as cycles per second and is capped at 50 and is all about the cpu.

If a server cycle rate drops below 20, any ai processing will be negatively effected

15 cycles per second is the minimum playable level that you could run without issues being too obvious, such as AI not returning fire etc

If it drops below 10 the ai will become , well not artificial intelligence anymore, something more in tune with a zombie and the mission will become unplayable.

Its nigh on impossible to get a server to run at 50 cycles per second

Anything above 20 is good and should create an enjoyable MP experience

Typically 30 + is very good

FPS is effected mainly by your clients hardware and because there is an untold combination of different hardware components, its very difficult to associate a clients fps with server-side performance.

If a server is being hit on the performance side, it will effect your FPS, however by how much hasn't really been documented but it would appear to be quite a lot

So stating your client fps is good or bad here, means diddly squat other than you can afford decent hardware and a good connection

PVP versus COOP

In a PvP environment, the server has less local objects to deal with, especially no A.I. so typically you can expect a much higher server cycle rate for the same amount of players in a coop.

A client with a poor connection or low specs is the biggest issue here and can effect other clients and server performance as lag delays data transfer and desync kicks in etc.

There are however reports that PvP is being effected as well, although as one would suspect, not to the same extent.

The biggest problem that we are seeing is when our servers have over 20 clients connected, typically 30 to 40 and the AI present on the server are in excess of 150, typically 200 to 300 on ALTIS ,the servers are taking a big hit in performance and grinding the client fps down to an unplayable amount. This is also effecting high end servers.

(Missions that spawn AI on demand are not effected as much, eg missions like Patrol ops, Invade and Annex etc)

What are B.I doing about it

Well the good news is they know about it and have been working on the issue.

They have released some special "optimised" dedicated server.exe's that are returning good results, to the extent that trusted reports are stating 100% improvement in performance, eg double the server cycle rate

This is still work in progress, but its looking good

Filter "PERF" in your server browser to find servers running this testing exe.

From my own perspective, i could run around 650 to 700 AI on Chenarus in A2 before the server started struggling

Until the release of the optimised dedi server testing binaries, 150 AI on Altis with 20-25 players was the limit to what we could run

I can now nearly double the AI present

The future is looking good

Edited December 20, 2013 by Terox

[hlfritz 1]

sorry to ask a probably stupid question - how does one measure the server cycle rate?

[Hud Dorph 22]

You can use as admin #monitor5 (5 are the secs between output on screen). Now this is fps and not cps, but the two to my experince pretty much follow each other. See Terox nice explanation above.

Best way install ASM (Arma Server Monitor) - http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?155881-Arma-Server-Monitor-(very-small-but-useful)

Edited December 21, 2013 by [HUD]Dorph

[terox 316]

Dorph;2583321']You can use as admin #monitor5 (5 are the secs between output on screen). Now this is fps and not cps' date=' but the two to my experince pretty much follow each other. See Terox nice explanation above.

Best way install ASM (Arma Server Monitor) - [url']http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?155881-Arma-Server-Monitor-(very-small-but-useful)[/url]

I think the "#monitor X" does return he cps on a dedicated server (Not sure about a client hosted server)

Or if you want some really detailed logs, use Freds armA Monitor, its an excellent tool

[bad benson 1733]

well, if you claim something, you could be more specific, saying "multiplayer is not at playable state", is a bit harsh indeed,

---------- Post added at 18:18 ---------- Previous post was at 18:15 ----------

btw was bored, did run up BECTI 12+12 bots with 8x soldiers each, had about 30 fps, that was plenty of AI's on that mission.

what exactly is your purpose in this thread? this is borderline trolling. jesus christ you are insufferable...

ofc people just make up these problems and discuss them here. especially since it's so much fun dealing with people like you FPDR

[Hud Dorph 22]

Posted this in the perf server.exe feedback thread - this is the kind of typical performance issue i experience.

Screen1 - all seems perfectly nice and dandy, 50 cps and no prob. The excact moment things start to go wrong are when first town capurred and 2nd target gets active. I checked the first target and it seems to be pretty neat cleaned up, no dead ai or wrecks to be seen.

Screen2 - same as above, just the performance hit between 2nd and 3rd town to capture. No need for more screens as performance take a dip every time a new target comes up untill its unplayable.

Screen1: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95560311/Screenshot%202013-12-21%2018.19.48.png

Screen2: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95560311/Screenshot%202013-12-21%2019.16.11.png

[fabio_chavez 103]

"It is well known that pvp runs fine"

[NeuroFunker 11]

what exactly is your purpose in this thread? this is borderline trolling. jesus christ you are insufferable...

ofc people just make up these problems and discuss them here. especially since it's so much fun dealing with people like you FPDR

the author asked to return back to topic, you starting to discuss my personality here? Jesus Christ, srsly...

[bad benson 1733]

the author asked to return back to topic

errr he said this...

Pls stop making useless comments

addressing specifically you. :annoy:

i have an idea. instead of just saying things how about you give us the server info of those servers you play on. then we could join and check your claims. and we would also have a specific example of somewhere where the game seems to work "fine", and also your definition of "fine" :p. we could include the server owners and mission makers of what you play in this discussion and make them share what they do right.

until you do that it's just you making claims vs actual server admins trying to discuss the actual problem here. do you really think that the devs are working on a solution to a problem that simply doesn't exist? did you miss their posts?

and yea. you being insufferable is just a simple fact and probably what most people, at least in this thread, are thinking anyways. so yea report me, warn me or ban me for calling things by their name. i really don't care. all i'm saying is you can be that but be actually productive. it would at least make it easier to take you seriously. i won't derail this any more. just my 2 cents. maybe try to think about it before you make another useless post.

[NeuroFunker 11]

errr he said this...

addressing specifically you. :annoy:

i have an idea. instead of just saying things how about you give us the server info of those servers you play on. then we could join and check your claims. and we would also have a specific example of somewhere where the game seems to work "fine", and also your definition of "fine" :p. we could include the server owners and mission makers of what you play in this discussion and make them share what they do right.

until you do that it's just you making claims vs actual server admins trying to discuss the actual problem here. do you really think that the devs are working on a solution to a problem that simply doesn't exist? did you miss their posts?

and yea. you being insufferable is just a simple fact and probably what most people, at least in this thread, are thinking anyways. so yea report me, warn me or ban me for calling things by their name. i really don't care. all i'm saying is you can be that but be actually productive. it would at least make it easier to take you seriously. i won't derail this any more. just my 2 cents. maybe try to think about it before you make another useless post.

your post didn't make much sense, since it wasn't erally about the topic.

But if there is something about you disliking me personally, there is a useful ignore button, but since you are not using it yet, seems you rather like to reply to my posts, god knows why. The servers? Join any public server from www.a3rc.com, and try, but they are rather russian community oriented. We also have 2 private for our squad alliance, where we do play saturday games, with 80-100 people pvp, where it also seems to not lag for anyone, and performs pretty good at all, you can watch videos at my utube chanel, videos named as "Субботние игры", this are my recordings from our servers.

Hardware, i don't exactly remember what intel xeon it was, 16gb ram, 2xSSD raid, no idea about inet. But 2xssd's doing the whole work. Also to mention, with latest 1.08 on some mission, the performance did degrade for a bit.

Edited December 22, 2013 by NeuroFunker

[galzohar 31]

Terox, where are you getting those AI numbers? From what I recall, having anything over 100-150 AI patrolling in Zargabad in missions I was testing on your server was hurting the server FPS pretty badly. When running on my own i7-920 things weren't much better. While I do agree ArmA 3 has issues that weren't present in ArmA 2, I don't recall playing any missions with 600-700 AI that actually work properly.

Also, the "multiplayer is unplayable" often refers to client FPS going down severely in multiplayer regardless of graphic settings, in a way that makes absolutely no sense. Yes, server FPS is also a big issue, but it's not the only one. Client FPS in multiplayer is suffering a lot too, and that has nothing to do with graphics whatsoever since the FPS stays the same even if you set graphics to a minimum and use a high-end graphic's card. Something in the CPU is f-ing up on both client and server when multiple players are involved, and this may or may not be related to the same issue, but both are definitely killers of most multiplayer missions and require us to either suffer or stick with very light missions.

Of course, since "light" missions work just fine, the game is "playable", but of course there is much that needs to be improved...

[bad benson 1733]

But if there is something about you disliking me personally, there is a useful ignore button, but since you are not using it yet, seems you rather like to reply to my posts, god knows why.

you are on my ignore list. but since you tend to be all over threads that deal with issues of the game, it's hard to ignore you to be honest, since people tend to respond to your nonsensical one sided view. so yea. if you'll try to be less "loud" in threads that interest me then i might be able to respond to you less, if that bothers you.

i only take a look in this thread once in a while to see stuff like Terox posted. you know actually relevant facts and maybe positive progress i might have missed.

i just was on one of the a3rc servers. the coop one, since the PvP ones are either empty or locked (will test there later).

the result was a constant jumping between 15 and 18 FPS which funnily enough the game itself shows as a red number in the video options. while that's better than the 15 FPS max on some servers, i have to say i'm not convinced that your claims are anything but subjective sugar coating. on the hostile take over servers (PvP) i get 30 FPS max in quiet areas and 20 FPS max at the AO. that's not amazing but playable (30 is the first number the game doesn't show as yellow ;))

i agree that the very lite PvP missions tend to have better performance but that's not only obvious but also ignoring the (much) bigger part of arma 3 multiplayer (or any arma for that matter), which is coop or complex PvP missions with RPG elements or base building. if the thread title is too bold for you then maybe try to focus on the things that are actually being dicussed here. the title and OP is only the start of the discussion. and about 20 pages in you are kinda late complaining about it.

i can sign galzohar's post 100%. it's pretty much how i perceive it right now.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Bad Benson