AI Behavior(Combat Mode) "Aware" -- the mission maker's beloved one ..

[giorgygr 61]

It really leaves me with a bitter laugh the fact most (99.99% of times) of mission makers are leaving the 'default' settings of AI to "Aware"

It seems sensible to set (aka don't touch) a guard or a patrol on this behavior but..i don't think it works like that IRL and it makes

stealth approaches impossible.

A "quick and dirty" solution would be to "Dumb" enemy skill-level that will also affect million other things-taking from you the joy to play against

a formidable opponent.

The other solution would be..to change the starting AI behavior.

Managing 'starting' behaviors..it changes the circumstances a scenario is depicted..without placing or removing extra units.

An AI in "Aware" behavior checks awfully often it's surroundings (nervous head left-right)-something that just don't happen if you are not expecting attack

from moment to moment (fear/expectation/agony!!) or..in case you are the attacker. (fear/expectation/Readiness ^^)

*Of course there are scenarios a Guard or a Patrol would (should) be at "Aware" mode..but this kind of scenarios is really a minority

while the behavior settings left to be the same (wrongly imo) for most scenarios.

The most sensible settings for a patrol would have been "Safe" and for guards "Safe->Careless".

What do you think?..

Edited October 25, 2013 by GiorgyGR

[kylejtown 1]

Don't set them on careless, but yes if they are guarding/on a patrol set them to "safe".

Edited October 25, 2013 by kylejtown

[giorgygr 61]

Yes (and thank you.)

I will and also advised my mission makers to do the same.

What i m trying is to make whole community hear my concerns-and also correct me if i m mistaken :)

[dmarkwick 261]

You would hope that play-testing would reveal this to most mission makers :)

[maturin 12]

If my patrol zone is within 2-3km of an enemy base, or the enemy has the ability to airlift in troops (ie, 99% of all ArmA missions ever) you bet your ASS I'm going to be "aware."

Also, careless is a cheat code for weapons testing and convoy ambushes without challenge. Avoid it like the plague.

[giorgygr 61]

If my patrol zone is within 2-3km of an enemy base, or the enemy has the ability to airlift in troops (ie, 99% of all ArmA missions ever) you bet your ASS I'm going to be "aware."

Also, careless is a cheat code for weapons testing and convoy ambushes without challenge. Avoid it like the plague.

I think serious players/clans play with external AI mods help.

When the first gunshot is heard ..everyone would return to "Combat" mode regardless "starting" behavior.

What matters to:

@If my patrol zone is within 2-3km of an enemy base, or the enemy has the ability to airlift in troops (ie, 99% of all ArmA missions ever) you bet your ASS I'm going to be "aware."

Yes..this is normal behavior for your example/scenario.

What i m trying to say is the majority of scenarios wrongly has "Aware" as default.

[2nd ranger 282]

Most mission makers don't even bother to do anything with the AI at all. You find 10-man patrols just standing at an objective in wedge formation.

[frag 0]

Actually "SAFE" is quite dangerous as well. I did some testing. I set an opfor walking unit to "safe" and it is able to detect me (BLUEFOR) while peeking thru a window carefully ...and BOOM he opens fire on me.

So the walking stance is different, but it seems as sensible to its environment. I might be wrong or just unlucky, but it’s my feeling.

[chrisb 196]

That's lazy mission making, just throw down groups and don't bother with behaviour, its the worst type of mission making. Agree with the comment most serious clan/groups/players play with mod help, its a case of you have to, you then get the best from the game, by a long way. Vanilla is not an option for realistic game-play, for me and all the players I know personally.

Great to have one mod that covers everything now.

[tortuosit 485]

Great to have one mod that covers everything now.

-v pleae. You mean bCombat?

[giorgygr 61]

Actually "SAFE" is quite dangerous as well. I did some testing. I set an opfor walking unit to "safe" and it is able to detect me (BLUEFOR) while peeking thru a window carefully ...and BOOM he opens fire on me.

So the walking stance is different, but it seems as sensible to its environment. I might be wrong or just unlucky, but it’s my feeling.

I have posted in TPW_MODS thread about LoS checks.

The logical thing will be: a unit in "SAFE" or "CARELESS" mode should not be so "jumpy" on his senses like:

-"OH!! LOOK!! A SHADOW CROSSED A WINDOW 3 BUILDINGS AHEAD!!"

-"YEAH! I M SURE IT"S ENEMY."

*TAKATAKATAKA...*BOOM* :681:

So..a soldier not in COMBAT mode could/should be more....kinda "Distracted on his own thoughts"

When (eventually) things will change.."COMBAT" mode will kick in and make the AI "Justified Jumpy" and fast

thanks to LoS checks (reaction <1 sec.)

Edited October 25, 2013 by GiorgyGR

[tvamvarg 0]

Maybe this is how AI should be constructed also in ArmA: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/10/how-forza-5-and-the-xbox-one-use-the-cloud-to-drive-machine-learning-ai/

[clydefrog 3]

Most mission makers don't even bother to do anything with the AI at all. You find 10-man patrols just standing at an objective in wedge formation.

The 10 man static wedge is one of the greatest defence tactics ever used, don't know what you're complaining about.

:cc:

[IGCNightmare 10]

I don't like the typical Aware mode at all. In my mission (shameless plug), the AI react how I would think they would react if they didn't know you were there. One thing I wish that would be implemented however is having a radio system implemented for the AI, so that they would update eachother as to where you are. (Without having to set triggers all over the place and have guard waypoints everywhere)

My shameless plug: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=187415133&searchtext=

Add the FFIS AI engagement system to it and you have some really interesting firefights.

Edited October 26, 2013 by IGCNightmare

[andersson 285]

GiorgyGR: Forget about Careless, that behavior is for special occasions only. AI will never shoot or acknowledge enemy presens.

IGCNightmare: The AI do share information. Not only within groups. I remember that BIS explained it a few years ago that there is some kind of central for the AI. I wish I could find that information again. Maybe in an old blog..?

[IGCNightmare 10]

GiorgyGR:

IGCNightmare: The AI do share information. Not only within groups. I remember that BIS explained it a few years ago that there is some kind of central for the AI. I wish I could find that information again. Maybe in an old blog..?

If they shared information then why would a guard patrol 150 meters away not respond to a fireteam being attacked? Not to mention that they don't see the firefight or hear the sound of the gun shots, nor do grenades seem to interest them. That's why the WWAI mod was made, to make the AI react to nearby gunshots, however that only works up to about 50-100 meters, anything beyond that and the AI just don't react at all. They will stay in Safe Mode walking along their designated patrol path. Only way atm that I know of to get the AI to react is to have it set up on a trigger (Activation: Blufor, detected by opfor) And then have all the AI converge on that location. Or have it set so that the players have a "Info age" i believe it is, where they know where the player is 24/7 after that.

If you wish to test this out, go to editor, place down several infantry units in Pyrgos[/s] place down a blufor unit, and then just walk into the town and start shooting people up. The guards at the other side of town do not even react, and will continue walking in safe mode until they have LOS on you. Better way to test it would be to make all the characters AI, so you can watch them from above, and see how little the AI react when the gun shots start going off. Reaction = non existant

Edited October 26, 2013 by IGCNightmare

[giorgygr 61]

Guys..let's face it.

Without community's popular AI mods..there is no human-like AI.

*Random skill levels based on unit's expected experience (by class/speciality)

*Shared radio information in (definable by user) radius

*Gunshot hearing

*Running to cover in combat mode

*Forced cover via Suppression effect

*Suppression effect (in general) *unit loses skills while suppressed-forced stance change

*CQC Reaction times <1 sec

*True Line of Sight

*Morale effects /surrendering/fleeing

*Proper use of grenades

*Rearming (WIP)

...and lots and lots of other stuff.....

I personally NEVER played without AI mods from A2 era (and in ArmA 1 played only PvP)

You will not see this on Vanilla because they require CPU resources that will raise the 'minimum' hardware requirements for ARMA 3

as a product.

Edited October 26, 2013 by GiorgyGR

[bravo409 13]

So heres a question then...Is there a way to set your Ai to safe or any behavior with out waypoints dictating that or is that how its done?

[windies 11]

So heres a question then...Is there a way to set your Ai to safe or any behavior with out waypoints dictating that or is that how its done?

You can use scripting, or there is a module that you can use I think that allows you to change AI FSM states.

[bravo409 13]

where is this mod you speak of? I can't locate it anywhere?

[fabrizio_t 58]

It really leaves me with a bitter laugh the fact most (99.99% of times) of mission makers are leaving the 'default' settings of AI to "Aware"

It seems sensible to set (aka don't touch) a guard or a patrol on this behavior but..i don't think it works like that IRL and it makes

stealth approaches impossible.

A "quick and dirty" solution would be to "Dumb" enemy skill-level that will also affect million other things-taking from you the joy to play against

a formidable opponent.

The other solution would be..to change the starting AI behavior.

Managing 'starting' behaviors..it changes the circumstances a scenario is depicted..without placing or removing extra units.

An AI in "Aware" behavior checks awfully often it's surroundings (nervous head left-right)-something that just don't happen if you are not expecting attack

from moment to moment (fear/expectation/agony!!) or..in case you are the attacker. (fear/expectation/Readiness ^^)

*Of course there are scenarios a Guard or a Patrol would (should) be at "Aware" mode..but this kind of scenarios is really a minority

while the behavior settings left to be the same (wrongly imo) for most scenarios.

The most sensible settings for a patrol would have been "Safe" and for guards "Safe->Careless".

What do you think?..

Well i think i agree on most your points.

I'd like to add that seeing units whose groups have no further waypoints staying immobile there in perfect formation makes no sense.

I think a possible workaround would be, for groups at the the END of their waypoints path (GUARD, SENTRY and other special waypint types excluded):

* Set some kind of timeout in order to switch groups to from AWARE to SAFE

and, more in general:

* Let units wander a bit around, by adding some kind of custom "dismiss" behaviour. This for groups on their last waypoint, except for STEALTH and COMBAT modes.

* Penalize "spotDistance" and "spotTime" for groups in SAFE mode.

I wrote something like that a lot of time ago.

[laverniusregalis 10]

This setBehaviour "SAFE";

'Nuff said

---------- Post added at 11:44 ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 ----------

* Let units wander a bit around, by adding some kind of custom "dismiss" behaviour. This for groups on their last waypoint, except for STEALTH and COMBAT modes.

[group this, getPos this, 250] call BIS_fnc_taskPatrol;

250 = max distance they'll go from the position where leader was when the function was called, in meters.

They'll randomly move about the area, and even in aware they'll walk slowly with weapons lowered, in columns.

Edited November 3, 2013 by steamtex

[giorgygr 61]

I want to thank each one of you-who participated in this discussion.

For those who still interested..TPW already took (~2 weeks ago) some measures in his LoS check-script.

In his latest mod-pack LoS checks will be enabled ONLY if behavior will change to "Stealth","Combat","Aware".

In my tests i always using ASR_AI + TPW_CAS (embedded LoS Disabled) + TPW_MODS (only LoS enabled)

Although i noticed something is "not seems right" about the AI skillz..(probably BI's changes regarding Skillz estimation) i was able to sneak very close to "unsuspected" guards -daytime-

without magically "Detected".

Guards starting behavior was set to "Safe"-and after i was intentionally detected..rest mods had kick in (ASR_RadioNet) alerted AO's patrols -and "behavior" changed to "Aware","Combat" which triggered TPW_LoS making things more exciting :)

Edited November 3, 2013 by GiorgyGR

[chrs 2]

If you don't like something in a game where you can make virtually anything happen, Make your own!?!

[giorgygr 61]

If you don't like something in a game where you can make virtually anything happen, Make your own!?!

Are u bot or actually human?

Your comment (due to it's irrelevancy)-reminds me replies i see often on You Tube in a Video lets say for SEA TURTLES

There are often replies like:

Yeah yeah!!..but then i registered on a site XyZBullshitXyZ,Com and i make 100000$ per year..