Campaign Episode 1: SURVIVE - Feedback thread ** SPOILER WARNING! **

[Grek 10]

Problems I had with the campaign mostly had to do with poor story telling.

Agreed.

Did you just seriously registered to the forums

he buyed game, played it, and (oh my g-d!) he see campaign in A3 not "Wow-Perfect!!11"

alot of strange things in storyline happens, and its very strange when people says "1st part is good".

Edited November 14, 2013 by Grek

[fraczek 4]

Actually, by the end of EP1 the story makes sense. Obviously, Miller from CTRG knows a lot more than the player, as is even none-too-subtly hinted throughout.

Destruction of Mike-26, the whole mission was probably just so Mike-26 doesn't get into AAF/CSAT's hands.

Not escaping earlier - well, it would make the whole episode way shorter, wouldn't in? And as long as they were fighting only AAF AND there were significant assets not yet decommissioned on Stratis Miller, as Special Forces guy, would obviously want to stay and achieve his objectives until severely defeated.

I didn't like some of the missions tactical decisions and waypoints - no base of fire elements and too much zerg rushing.

Especially during the assault on Agia Marina - you link up with Bravo to rush a military compound headlong? From one direction only? At least a machine gunner team from Bravo or Alpha should be set up in a good position.

Same with Repel counterattack objective in Mike-26. I had to separate from my squad to mow them down from a convenient location. Why didn't they set up at least a hasty ambush, put some mines, when they must have known that there is going to be a counterattack?

Edited November 16, 2013 by fraczek

[progamer 14]

Problems I had with the campaign mostly had to do with poor story telling.

Speed boats

I'll start with the most irritating thing with the campaign - the ending

Which plot hole did Lt Fancy pants pull those attack boats at the end of the campaign?

It is never explained at all where they came from and it was never once stated prior that they had

any form of water transport before. They obviously aren't civilian craft so it is clear that he didn't just

commandeer them. And for that matter, where did he store them? I searched the entire base and havent found

anything that would indicate the existence of a boat. Finally, why would an inland base even have speed boats laying around at all?

But lets ask the most important question. If there were speed boats laying around.. then why didn't they use them to get

to the mainland! The whole reason that they were fighting was that it was a sink or swim situation where they were trapped.

It was made clear at the beginning of the campaign that nato was retreating rather than staying to fight so he wouldn't of been

punished for retreating from a hopelessly better armed and manned force.

My over analysis can be summarized in one sentence.

The speed boats are the result of plot convenience and poor writing.

Where did they get the submarine?

Seriously? Was that thing just laying around a peace keeper base?

Why the fuck would anyone bring a mini-sub on a peace keeping operation?

If Lt fluffyballs at least told me how he got it or gave me some general clue

I would be half satisfied. The submarine didn't even play a significant part in

the mission. Hell the player doesn't even get to control it. It's just a big aquatic

bus.

It is obvious that the dev team just wanted to show off their 'exciting' underwater features

Constant Mission Fuck Ups

Perhaps the objective of the dev team was to convey the sense of helplessness

against a superior enemy but all they managed to achieve was make me realize by

the third mission that the standard mission template is..

Get objective

Oh noes X isnt there/doesntwork/isdead

Lt Fuckpants Forces me to retreat

If the dev team is actually trying to take this somewhere like making Lt Fuckpants into a double agent (which makes a lot of plot holes)

then they could stand for some subtlety by mixing a few successful mission in with it

Minor Problems

Helo's casually flying in circles on the last mission and never actually taking notice of the player despite their fully rotatable nose turret

A helo para dropping soldiers in on the last mission - clearly done just for dramatic affect - secondly the helo they came from wasn't

a even transport chopper - thirdly try paradropping from 50ft irl.. do it

Complete lack of any (armed)armor assets for opfor or AT for blufor despite there being afv's shown to the player at the end

Why wouldn't the game let us use the armor assets at the end to gun down choppers? that would of been awesome even if the battle

ended the same anyways

It was more like "show off the island and vehicles>Learn how to play>Gameplay> story> Realism".

---------- Post added at 22:55 ---------- Previous post was at 22:54 ----------

Actually, by the end of EP1 the story makes sense. Obviously, Miller from CTRG knows a lot more than the player, as is even none-too-subtly hinted throughout.

Destruction of Mike-26, the whole mission was probably just so Mike-26 doesn't get into AAF/CSAT's hands.

Not escaping earlier - well, it would make the whole episode way shorter, wouldn't in? And as long as they were fighting only AAF AND there were significant assets not yet decommissioned on Stratis Miller, as Special Forces guy, would obviously want to stay and achieve his objectives until severely defeated.

I didn't like some of the missions tactical decisions and waypoints - no base of fire elements and too much zerg rushing.

Especially during the assault on Agia Marina - you link up with Bravo to rush a military compound headlong? From one direction only? At least a machine gunner team from Bravo or Alpha should be set up in a good position.

Same with Repel counterattack objective in Mike-26. I had to separate from my squad to mow them down from a convenient location. Why didn't they set up at least a hasty ambush, put some mines, when they must have known that there is going to be a counterattack?

That could be a possibility...

[best2nd 10]

I still haven't figured out what MEDCOM is (MEDical COMmand?)...

Judging by the intro movie Altis is somewhat under AAF control. You can only see green markers, although north-western part is empty hinting at FIA control.

So I think it's a Medical fleet tasked with providing humanitarian aid to displaced refuges (as suggested by newsflash, there are no blue markers on Altis so it must be a fleet).

[chortles 263]

@ Best2nd : I thought that it was "MEDiterranean COMmand".

@ ProGamer: I'll agree with fraczek, multiple people got the sense that *ahem* "There's something about Miller..."

[antoineflemming 14]

I still haven't figured out what MEDCOM is (MEDical COMmand?)...

Judging by the intro movie Altis is somewhat under AAF control. You can only see green markers, although north-western part is empty hinting at FIA control.

So I think it's a Medical fleet tasked with providing humanitarian aid to displaced refuges (as suggested by newsflash, there are no blue markers on Altis so it must be a fleet).

MEDCOM is Mediterranean Command. As in NATO Mediterranean Command. Altis is the home of the Altian Armed Forces. Of course it's under Altian control.

Again, about Miller, you guys just need to go search CPT Scott Miller on Google. He's not a bad guy. He's special forces, and his CTRG team is researching Iranian weapons technology development on Altis. I think the reason his tactics are off is because BIS doesn't know tactics. That, and the fact that, like James said, what they tell the regular American forces is on a need-to-know basis. In other words, it's above their security clearance level. Their mission is classified.

Edited November 17, 2013 by antoineflemming

[Polygon 11]

Now we some overpraise of Miller with terrible assumptions...

The fact is - story was clearly written abruptly or even not by a writer, designers themselves came up with something gamey and believable to inexperienced.

[MavericK96 0]

Small(ish) issue: During "Crossing Paths", when you are supposed to return to Maxwell, the Team Leader just sits there and never returns as you hear music play. Waited for a good 5-10 minutes and nothing ever happened. Are you supposed to just run back yourself? I'm assuming it's a bug.

[h - 169]

Replaying the episode and in "Crossing Paths" at the 'end battle' I destroyed one the houses (the long one) and started getting this scripting error spam:

Incorrect number of post effect params

Incorrect number of post effect params

Error in expression <]];

}

else

{

BIS_fnc_feedback_damageCC ppEffectAdjust [1,1,0,[0.15, 0.15, 0.15,>

Error position: <ppEffectAdjust [1,1,0,[0.15, 0.15, 0.15,>

Error 7 elements provided, 1 expected

File A3\functions_f\Feedback\fn_damagePulsing.sqf, line 66

Error in expression <tCommit 0;

BIS_fnc_feedback_damageCC ppEffectAdjust [1,1,0,[0.15, 0, 0, 0],

[>

Error position: <ppEffectAdjust [1,1,0,[0.15, 0, 0, 0],

[>

Error 7 elements provided, 1 expected

File A3\functions_f\Feedback\fn_damagePulsing.sqf, line 31

Incorrect number of post effect params

Error in expression <t _delay2;

BIS_fnc_feedback_damageCC ppEffectAdjust [1,1,0,[0.15, 0, 0, 0],

[>

Error position: <ppEffectAdjust [1,1,0,[0.15, 0, 0, 0],

[>

Error 7 elements provided, 1 expected

File A3\functions_f\Feedback\fn_damagePulsing.sqf, line 93

[ozzbik 71]

Other possiblity: Miller and his team were responsible for the escalation of the conflict (on purpose). The next campaign episodes will clear this up, hopefully. :)

I find it that there's not a lot of opposition (in numbers) for a force that's overseeing the retreat of nato forces.

[best2nd 10]

The next campaign episodes will clear this up, hopefully. :)

That's the problem I have with most people. They're like: "OMG! Lack of information! It's a plot hole!" Dude... This is EPISODE 1, it's not the whole story.

Also I have a theory on why AAF is unable to overwhelm Camp Maxwell.

From what I gathered the news broadcast stating that the civil-war has ended is false. AAF managed to thwart the Kavala coup (I presume with the help of NATO) however FIA retreated to north-western hills and have switched to guerilla tactics. AAF seizes the moment and declares victory while in reality they are still engaged in bloody guerrilla war and need to maintain high military presence on Altis. Civil unrest and high influx of refuges don't help either resulting in inability to allocate more troops to Stratis. Once things start going bad for AAF (?Bravo? Company Commander killed, failed attack on Maxwell) they have no other choice but to request military aid from CSAT. Judging by the news broadcast, they are in good relations so CSAT accepts and screws you over in the last mission.

[2nd ranger 282]

I wouldn't try to read too much into why things happen or don't happen. Maxwell isn't overrun because BIS wanted it to be the campaign hub. Some things aren't explained because it's convenient to the gameplay. I don't think BIS has got every tiny facet and nuance of the storyline worked out, they just shape the story around the gameplay.

Also I don't think your story analysis is correct - as I understand it the Kavala coup was perpetrated by the armed forces, not a rebel group. The FIA came about in response to the coup, which installed a military junta. According to the A3 site, the coup was in 2026, the ceasefire in 2030. Since then the FIA have been waging a guerrilla war, during the NATO peacekeeping mission.

Maybe I'm wrong, though. It's still hard to get a proper handle on the (current) official story, there hasn't really been a definitive source on the subject - the official site doesn't even have a 'story' section, except the campaign timeline which seems to be mostly recent happenings. Apart from that it's just little bits of information in the 'faction' overviews. And some of that information doesn't completely match some things that have been said in interviews.

Edited November 26, 2013 by 2nd Ranger

[antoineflemming 14]

:( I still wish the ceasefire was in response to Iranian expansion in the middle east and the mediterranean. That was a much more interesting scenario. Turkey and Greece being halfway taken over by Iran, and Altis/Stratis being right on CSAT's doorstep.

[chortles 263]

I wouldn't try to read too much into why things happen or don't happen. Maxwell isn't overrun because BIS wanted it to be the campaign hub. Some things aren't explained because it's convenient to the gameplay. I don't think BIS has got every tiny facet and nuance of the storyline worked out, they just shape the story around the gameplay.

Zipper5 outright said this in his Report In! interview:

We also opted for a gameplay-driven development approach this time around. We build missions that we believe provide fun and engaging gameplay, and then we bend and manipulate the story to work around them where possible. In the past, there were many instances when we were somewhat hindered in what we could do by what had been set-in-stone by the narrative. We decided gameplay should have priority.

[Tonci87 163]

Guys I don't think that CSAT came to help the AAF. To me it looked as if they were engaging the AAF (I had CSAT troops killing the last AAF in the town) and your squad got cought up in it.

[chortles 263]

... so a three-way fight? That's more than most video game storytelling can handle! :lol:

[Smurf 12]

Guys I don't think that CSAT came to help the AAF. To me it looked as if they were engaging the AAF (I had CSAT troops killing the last AAF in the town) and your squad got cought up in it.

Yeah, had the same impression and that might be why AAF attacked NATO: they didn't knew either!

[antoineflemming 14]

... so a three-way fight? That's more than most video game storytelling can handle! :lol:

MW2 did it...

---------- Post added at 10:35 ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 ----------

Guys I don't think that CSAT came to help the AAF. To me it looked as if they were engaging the AAF (I had CSAT troops killing the last AAF in the town) and your squad got cought up in it.

Well if that's the case, then maybe they turned on them because they maybe thought that CSAT and NATO were working together. If so, still the case is that CSAT has taken Altis and were prepping for and executing an invasion of Stratis. That is interesting. Never noticed that they were killing the AAF.

[best2nd 10]

Guys I don't think that CSAT came to help the AAF. To me it looked as if they were engaging the AAF (I had CSAT troops killing the last AAF in the town) and your squad got cought up in it.

I dePbo'd the mission. Resistance is friendly to EAST.

I'm going to scour the missionFlow to see if it changes mid mission...

----------EDIT----------

They weren't killed by CSAT, you just thought they did. The remaining AAF defenders are magically killed by script in order to speed up players group.

private ["_killDefenders"];
_killDefenders = true;

if ({alive _x} count (units group BIS_inf - [bIS_inf]) > 0) then {
// Kill enemy AI in the town to speed up player's group
{if (alive _x) then {_x setDamage 1}} forEach (BIS_range_defenders + BIS_town_defenders);
};

Edited November 27, 2013 by Best2nd
Added code from missionFlow.fsm

[antoineflemming 14]

I dePbo'd the mission. Resistance is friendly to EAST.

I'm going to scour the missionFlow to see if it changes mid mission...

----------EDIT----------

They weren't killed by CSAT, you just thought they did. The remaining AAF defenders are magically killed by script in order to speed up players group.

private ["_killDefenders"];
_killDefenders = true;

if ({alive _x} count (units group BIS_inf - [bIS_inf]) > 0) then {
// Kill enemy AI in the town to speed up player's group
{if (alive _x) then {_x setDamage 1}} forEach (BIS_range_defenders + BIS_town_defenders);
};

Then it's back to my hypothesis, which is backed up by the campaign in fact and by what BIS devs said last year. The campaign even says that CSAT and the AAF are in an economic and military partnership, so should have guessed something was wrong about that.

Again, I think that the AAF attacked NATO to lay the groundwork for a CSAT invasion of the island, in order to catch the NATO forces off guard. They're already solidified on Altis. Hopefully the backstory involves more than just CSAT wanting to take Stratis. Hopefully this is part of a much larger conflict that involves CSAT trying to aggressively take over the entire region. Because otherwise it's pretty insignificant.

[best2nd 10]

Again, I think that the AAF attacked NATO to lay the groundwork for a CSAT invasion of the island, in order to catch the NATO forces off guard.

That doesn't make sense as AAF is, as you already stated, in an economic and military partnership with CSAT.

After reading through factions I noticed that FIA has gained international support from the west. What I gather is that support from the west is actually CTRG... AAF caught wind of this (either tipped off or by themselves) and engaged NATO forces on Stratis in hopes of preventing them from assisting FIA.

[antoineflemming 14]

That doesn't make sense as AAF is, as you already stated, in an economic and military partnership with CSAT.

After reading through factions I noticed that FIA has gained international support from the west. What I gather is that support from the west is actually CTRG... AAF caught wind of this (either tipped off or by themselves) and engaged NATO forces on Stratis in hopes of preventing them from assisting FIA.

It does make sense. They have increased their military relations with CSAT. CSAT is already on Altis. Meaning they'd be doing what CSAT told them to do. Makes perfect sense. Western support is always referring to economic or military aid as sanctioned by that Western government or governments. CTRG stands for Combat Technology Research Group. Their focus is on researching CSAT, specifically Iranian, advanced weapons technology. This isn't supposition or hypothesis. This is what CTRG is. Not debatable. AAF wouldn't have "caught wind" of international support from the West. International support is like public support from the West during their civil war, like how the West is supporting the Syrian rebels. That international support.

Again, AAF and CSAT are hand-in-hand working against NATO. Whether the AAF are being played, and are being used by CSAT remains to be seen, but there's no coincidence that CSAT showed up at the end of Survive, and clearly Miller knows more about the situation, and is acting as if they suspected this. Not only that, but it'd be in keeping with the original story, that the Greek/AAF forces led by COL Akhanteros are in league with the Iranians/CSAT. So I stand by my hypothesis, and even more so since the campaign specifically showed Akhanteros.

[Tonci87 163]

I dePbo'd the mission. Resistance is friendly to EAST.

I'm going to scour the missionFlow to see if it changes mid mission...

----------EDIT----------

They weren't killed by CSAT, you just thought they did. The remaining AAF defenders are magically killed by script in order to speed up players group.

private ["_killDefenders"];
_killDefenders = true;

if ({alive _x} count (units group BIS_inf - [bIS_inf]) > 0) then {
// Kill enemy AI in the town to speed up player's group
{if (alive _x) then {_x setDamage 1}} forEach (BIS_range_defenders + BIS_town_defenders);
};

Well nice find!

So it means they work together to kick out Nato. But then again, why not just wait until Nato leaves?

[antoineflemming 14]

Well nice find!

So it means they work together to kick out Nato. But then again, why not just wait until Nato leaves?

Because, what I'm expecting, is that the whole thing was orchestrated by CSAT, and that it was the whole point not to simply kick NATO out but to attack them on their weak side (the Mediterranean) as opposed to kicking off a war in the Pacific.

[2nd ranger 282]

But that still doesn't make any sense. Yeah, quite obviously CSAT and AAF are allied, but NATO is leaving anyway. They're at the ass-end of a drawdown during a period of global economic and political instability. Realistically, NATO isn't going to come back just because CSAT moved in. Attacking NATO forces virtually guarantees a response. The only logical explanation for that would be if CSAT wants a Mediterranean conflict, perhaps to draw NATO forces away from the Pacific theatre, where there is already some kind of escalating conflict (NPC talk of being drafted there, etc).

Either that or it's simply a conceit of the story, to facilitate having an understrength NATO force have its ass handed to it by a virtual third-world country. Again, let's not assume that every little detail has been worked out. Though I'm willing to give BIS the benefit of the doubt on that matter, video game plots aren't exactly famous for their complexity and nuance. Perhaps this series least of all.