Behaviour "careless" is useless

[KingoftheSandbox 10]

Im starting this thread because i think the behaviour "careless" is useless and needs a change. Why?

The AI is not reacting to enemys, even if close, they do nothing. I can easily reach that behaviour by the setCaptive command or by turning FSM´s off + more options. Now you can say that the behaviour is just so you dont have to code careless behaviour, but i think this i really easy even for beginners. What behaviour of AI i would prefer if set to careless:

Let the AI only detect you if you are very close to it, maybe 1-2 meters. This would be the perfect mix with the ambientCombatAnim. Right now i placed enemys with the CombatAnims in buildings and i want to silencly storm the building. problem is that the AI hears shots with silencers now more away and they easily are alerted in the whole building. What do you guys think about that? id welcome any input!

[frostwyrm333 1]

Its probably only meant for special cases, cutscenes etc.

[maffa 29]

i use careless when i want them to stay still and dont care to nearby enemy soldiers being there for a purpose. For example i made a living target shooting range with scores of still enemies to different ranges, and set them to careless so that they dont react to my presence while i shoot them down one after the other.

[surfer 42]

I wouldn't mess with careless since for mission design it's needed if you really want to have the AI act as you want so the mission doesn't get stuck. SetCaptive true would result in the AI not getting attacked and you don't want that.

Use "Safe" instead and modify AI with setskill etc to your liking! That way they can already stumble over you until they react and open fire.

[St. Jimmy 272]

It isn't useless for me. I don't know much about scripting and this is handy sometimes when testing stuff.

[KingoftheSandbox 10]

Ok, i see, most of you guys want the behaviour. Again, my problem is with stealth missions. Even enemy AI´s on "Safe" and lowest skill with the skillslider bar react to fire shot with supressors in the next building. Any ideas how to change that?

[surfer 42]

Check out my post. Mess around with setskill. Also be sure to check the discussion about how loud suppressed weapons still are. If you want to make sure your main target doesn't switch to "Aware" make his guards green army while the target is opfor. Or try to manually set him back to "Safe" once you're close.

Ah btw:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?165956-How-do-you-deal-with-Arma-3-s-AI-difficulty-and-the-wounding-system

[KingoftheSandbox 10]

I just tried the setskill command, didnt know you can specify the skill. It didnt help. Its still very difficult to build stealth missions, even harder as you mentioned the louder silencers. I think its difficult to find a compromise here, but its hard to script around every time also.

[Sandy* 10]

"Careless" behaviour is important in mission making for the sole fact it makes the AI unit not react to enemies.

Also worth mentioning is that unlike in Hollywood movies and casual videogames, silencers don't exactly make weapons "silent".

[KingoftheSandbox 10]

You can easily make the AI dont react by disabling FSM or setCaptive commands. There are even modules for this purpose now. I know that silencers can be in fact pretty loud, but if you are in a closed building and in the next building shots with silencers are fired, there should a behaviour that the AI ignores those sounds, because they are !careless!. careless should be what it says, it shouldnt disable the AI completly, what its does. again, therefore modules are in the game now, so you dont have to code a AI which does nothing.

[mistyronin 1181]

"Careless" behaviour is important in mission making for the sole fact it makes the AI unit not react to enemies.

Also worth mentioning is that unlike in Hollywood movies and casual videogames, silencers don't exactly make weapons "silent".

I completely agree. "Careless" behavior is needed and useful, I do understand that you don't use it, but that doesn't make it useless.

On the other hand, have you ever used a rifle with silencer? It suppresses most of the noise, but is still audible at short distances 25-30 meters. Besides the smoke and the flash.

Edited October 21, 2013 by MistyRonin

[Sandy* 10]

You can easily make the AI dont react by disabling FSM or setCaptive commands. There are even modules for this purpose now. I know that silencers can be in fact pretty loud, but if you are in a closed building and in the next building shots with silencers are fired, there should a behaviour that the AI ignores those sounds, because they are !careless!. careless should be what it says, it shouldnt disable the AI completly, what its does. again, therefore modules are in the game now, so you dont have to code a AI which does nothing.

Perhaps the most common use for "careless behaviour" is to ensure a unit will proceed to a waypoint regardless of enemies. This isn't exactly guaranteed by disabling FSM. Using setCaptive won't stop a unit from engaging enemies, it will only stop other units from engaging the "captive" one.

I'd also like to point out that while a lot of things can be said about Arma's realism, the game definitely isn't a good platform to create something akin to mainstream shooters / stealth games.

[andersson 285]

If you wan't a helicopter och plane to fly somewhere without engaging enemies a careless WP is very handy. Scripted bombing run for a plane, same. You don't want your plane to go around in a circle and strafing enemies while your bombs drops all over the place.

Sure, it can all be scripted, but it's very convenient to use a careless WP instead.

[2nd ranger 282]

So, to sum this thread up, the OP is displeased because the 'Careless' behaviour makes the AI behave as if they don't care about anything.

[mistyronin 1181]

So, to sum this thread up, the OP is displeased because the 'Careless' behaviour makes the AI behave as if they don't care about anything.

[irony] Who could ever imagine that... This BI fools... [/irony]

[surfer 42]

They aren't just careless... they really don't give a sh...!!!!1 ;-)

Edited October 23, 2013 by Surfer

[andersson 285]

carelessˈkÉ›Ëlɪs/

adjective

• 1.
  not giving sufficient attention or thought to avoiding harm or errors.
  "she had been careless and had left the window unlocked"
  [TABLE=class: vk_tbl vk_gy]
  [TR]
  [TD=class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]inattentive, incautious, negligent, remiss; forgetful, absent-minded;
  heedless, irresponsible, impetuous, reckless;
  informalsloppy, couldn't care less, slap-happy
  "careless motorists"
  shoddy, slapdash, slipshod, scrappy, slovenly, unconsidered,amateurish, negligent, lax, slack, wild, disorganized;
  hasty, hurried, perfunctory, cursory, thrown together, sketchy, hit-or-miss;
  inaccurate, imprecise, inexact, incorrect, wrong, erroneous, error-ridden;
  informalsloppy, slap-happy, scatterbrained;
  vulgar slanghalf-arsed
  "an unsatisfactory excuse for incomplete or careless work"
  
  thoughtless, unthinking, insensitive, indiscreet, unguarded, ill-advised,ill-considered, ill-thought-out, unwise, misguided, incautious,inadvertent, rash, foolhardy;
  hasty, spur-of-the-moment, hare-brained
  "a careless remark"
  
  negligent in, mindless of, heedless of, improvident about, unconcerned about, indifferent to, oblivious to;
  reckless about, remiss in, slapdash about, slipshod about, frivolous about;
  informalsloppy in, messy in
  "she was very careless of investments and spent too much of her capital"
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  

= don't give a shit. And that is the purpose of the behavior careless. Sometimes you want/need the AI to not give a shit. If you want them to care when they need to use safe.

Edited October 23, 2013 by andersson

[ziiip 1]

It's also useful when you are in a very dire situation and the number of opponent makes in pointless to even try to engage them. In this case, you tell the AI to be careless and run for you life.

[Smurf 12]

It's also useful when you are in a very dire situation and the number of opponent makes in pointless to even try to engage them. In this case, you tell the AI to be careless and run for you life.

Sadly, you can't do that. They just go back to "normal" when they decide the "Area is clear". Stubborn fellas.

[PlacidPaul 11]

BI uses careless in their missions. Checkout showcase drones. So it's not useless to them. This thread is useless to everyone, lock it.

[KingoftheSandbox 10]

The thread title wasnt the best choice, i agree. Actually the behaviour isnt useless, il sum it up again for you guys:

I think it would be better, careless would be a behaviour which would make the AI doesnt take care, but still reacts on enemys if they are face on face on them. With the new supressors sound range it would be very handy. Not all soldiers have heard a gun shot supressed. you could simulate that they ignore the noise because they dont know it, or simple because they are careless. waypoint behaviour could be the same with SAFE, set them on never fire and disable autotarget+taget. this would add the "stealth" component to the game again. partly it might be not realistic, but i think some things should be put back for more sandbox possibilitys.

@placidpaul

so close all threads because people have different opinions? makes sense.

Edited October 23, 2013 by KingoftheSandbox

[andersson 285]

Careless should be what it is. It's been called that since 2001.

If you want another behaviour it needs a new name. But then again, why dont you use safe, set the AI on never fire and disable autotarget...?

This seems to be more of an issue with your selected suppressed weapon. Find a silenced weapon instead (addon or what not). You can never be stealth with a suppressed weapon, they have lower dB but are still loud.