TPWCAS for A3 - AI Suppression System - suggestions/comments/ideas discussion

[Variable 322]

I think the only problem with it is on SP you get suppressed by your closeby teammates fire of AT and rifle nades.

Add to that friendly grenades. I was just suppressed by a friendly AI unit throwing a hand grenade. He was very close to me, but immediately once the nade left his hand, I had a screen shake and blackout effects.

[spanishsurfer 58]

I'm testing this mod out in conjunction with ASR AI on my server. Will suppression effect players even though they are not running the mod on their client? Are player controlled AI affected by the mod?

Thanks!

[giorgygr 61]

Will suppression effect players even though they are not running the mod on their client?

No..players who aren't running the mod won't affected

Are player controlled AI affected by the mod?

If addon runs only serverside..only serversided AI will affected (aka enemies)

If a number of clients run the addon..those *specific clients AI will be enhanced..

[Lunatic104 10]

Ollem, any news on the AI in buildings not returning to the standing?

This script is excellent and as such, IMHO this is the only small gripe I can find. It would really polish off what is an already great script.

Cheers,

Lunatic.

[ollem 4]

Ollem, any news on the AI in buildings not returning to the standing?

This script is excellent and as such, IMHO this is the only small gripe I can find. It would really polish off what is an already great script.

Cheers,

Lunatic.

Unfortunately it isn't easy to determine if an AI unit is in a building - if someone knows a way please let me know.

(I found some code but if 2 houses would be next to each other it didn't work as required)

The work around could be to add the following code to the init of an AI unit, which will not trigger TPWCAS suppression to that AI unit :

this setVariable ["tpwcas_ignoreUnit", true]; 

[Variable 322]

It seems like TPWCAS changes unit's combat modes. When engaged they repeatedly changing from "Danger" to "Stealth" and then some remain on "Ready" status and stop following the leader. Pretty nerve wrecking...

I suppose this isn't on purpose?

[DaViSFiT 21]

Hmm all the sound modders should know where i am standing, the sound chances indoor :P

[ollem 4]

It seems like TPWCAS changes unit's combat modes. When engaged they repeatedly changing from "Danger" to "Stealth" and then some remain on "Ready" status and stop following the leader. Pretty nerve wrecking...

I suppose this isn't on purpose?

Actually end of November 2013 or so I indeed implemented unit combat mode changes in order to use BIS default AI behaviour. E.g. in case of stealth, the AI tends to go prone and look for cover.

Some units will break formation and run for cover, however, they should not remain on ready status indefinitely but start following their leader again. (I will verify this)

What's the issue for you with the combat mode changes? Why would you call it 'nerve wracking'?

[Variable 322]

Actually end of November 2013 or so I indeed implemented unit combat mode changes in order to use BIS default AI behaviour. E.g. in case of stealth, the AI tends to go prone and look for cover.

Some units will break formation and run for cover, however, they should not remain on ready status indefinitely but start following their leader again. (I will verify this)

What's the issue for you with the combat mode changes? Why would you call it 'nerve wracking'?

I understand. First, the most significant difficulties arise when leading AI as player:

a. It makes them less responsive for orders (less tendency to run to WP given by you as the leader, for example).

b. It sounds bad that they start whispering (stealth mode) when there's heavy fire all around them, and then switching to shouting (danger mode), and then back to whispering for no apparent reason, and vice versa.

c. They suddenly turn their status to "Ready" state, which means they hold put unless you specifically order them to regroup or do something else.

Is it not possible to force them to take cover and change stance without changing combat mode? In Arma 2, and before November's update, you didn't use BIS default combat modes, right? I think it was better without.

If you wish to keep the current use of BIS combat modes, I would advise to disable the effect on AI lead by the player, it's just makes commanding them frustrating and affects immersion (I think AICover mod takes the same approach and has a config parameter to disable the mod effect on the player's team AI).

[ollem 4]

Thanks for the feedback: Since ArmA2 I basically only play coop multi player so after OFP I do have limited experience with leading AI.. :-)

Moving from ArmA2 to ArmA3 default BIS AI behavior has changed and this made me decide to introduce the combat mode changes, but I do understand the issue you describe. I will see if I can add a check to verify if leader is player and if so ignore combat mode changes.

[Variable 322]

Thanks Ollem. Most appreciated!

[lordprimate 159]

Unfortunately it isn't easy to determine if an AI unit is in a building - if someone knows a way please let me know.

(I found some code but if 2 houses would be next to each other it didn't work as required)

The work around could be to add the following code to the init of an AI unit, which will not trigger TPWCAS suppression to that AI unit :

this setVariable ["tpwcas_ignoreUnit", true]; 

Ollem, i know that in JSRS and speed of sound, they use lineintersect or some derivative to check if there is a Roof over the unit. You could do something like that to check if their in a building or not when needed.!

[ollem 4]

Thanks Ollem. Most appreciated!

Please check if this solves your issue: replace tpwcas_mainloop.sqf by this file (assuming you use script version..):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96469595/tpwcas_a3/test/tpwcas_mainloop.sqf

---------- Post added at 08:10 ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 ----------

Ollem, i know that in JSRS and speed of sound, they use lineintersect or some derivative to check if there is a Roof over the unit. You could do something like that to check if their in a building or not when needed.!

That might actually work.... place some kind of (invisible) object like 50m above the unit and check if there is no LOS, in combination with check if building in close range.

I will check.

[Variable 322]

Please check if this solves your issue: replace tpwcas_mainloop.sqf by this file (assuming you use script version..):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96469595/tpwcas_a3/test/tpwcas_mainloop.sqf

I actually use the addon version, I don't know how to handle scripts, sorry... :/

[ollem 4]

No Problem - I will provide you a mod version to verify

[lordprimate 159]

i dont think you have to place any invisible objects. I think you just have to do a lineIntersect. adding objects above each ai could be potentially hazardous.

As a matter of fact ollem i believe that the code that is used in JSRS was donated by a forum member that had the bright idea along time ago. I remember the posts i just doubt ill be able to find it in the JSRS1.5 thread. but it was about exactly this issue, and i mention that because i do believe it was donated opensource style (aka Free to use as you wish) and im pretty sure they just use lineintersect to check if there is anything above the unit, with out adding objects to each unit. However, i definitely could be wrong. .

found it

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?104514-J-S-R-S-1-5&p=2243919&viewfull=1#post2243919

Edited April 16, 2014 by Lordprimate

[ollem 4]

Lordprimate, thanks for this!

I think we could even use a more simple approach by using lineIntersects to just check right above the unit if there is an object of type building.

Current approach I'm thinking of is to add check if the about to be suppressed unit is standing in a building and if so return to stand after suppression.

I will investigate.

[GieNkoV 30]

Hello.

First of all I wanted to say that your addon is great. What I most like about it is supression effects, but I think they would be even better by staying on until not supressed.

What I mean is right now I get that blinking on screen effect with slight blur and tint when i stand in front of enemy machinegun, it runs over and over and that blinking start to annoy me a little. What would be better is make that blur and tint stay UNTIL out of supression - when player get to cover or hide from fire. That would be awesome.

Please reply and thanks in advance.

[Variable 322]

No Problem - I will provide you a mod version to verify

A kind reminder, do you still want me to verify?

[ollem 4]

A kind reminder, do you still want me to verify?

Yes please :-)

Please note I had only limited time to test the script version and did not even test the mod version myself yet, so please share your findings:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96469595/tpwcas_a3/tpwcas_v5.4/tpwcas_v5.4.zip

Changes version 5.4:

- update: player controlled AI should no longer change combat behaviour

- update: added simple check to verify if unit is in building to recover to standing after suppression

- change: tpwcas_minskill is no longer absolute value but a percentage of the original skill (so 0.20 means minimum value of 20% of original skill)

[GieNkoV 30]

Could you also implement that slight change I mentioned above?

Thanks in advance.

[Variable 322]

Yes please :-)

Please note I had only limited time to test the script version and did not even test the mod version myself yet, so please share your findings:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96469595/tpwcas_a3/tpwcas_v5.4/tpwcas_v5.4.zip

Changes version 5.4:

- update: player controlled AI should no longer change combat behaviour

- update: added simple check to verify if unit is in building to recover to standing after suppression

- change: tpwcas_minskill is no longer absolute value but a percentage of the original skill (so 0.20 means minimum value of 20% of original skill)

Ok, I did a little test with only TPWCAS running this version. Player controlled team doesn't seem to change combat mode independently anymore. However I'm not certain suppression actually works, I used debug mode and saw no balls. And some AI that were suppose to be suppressed seemed to move uninterruptedly. Can you confirm Ollem?

Thanks for your continued support on the one mod that allows us to finally use infantry tactics in this so called infantry simulator ;)

[ollem 4]

Unfortunately I do not have access to Arma till Monday evening so I am unable to check myself now.

Do the logs show any feedback about tpwcas running?

[Variable 322]

Do the logs show any feedback about tpwcas running?

Yes, the usual TPWCAS loaded message and a lot of:

"7.793 Frame:1016 'tpwcas_fnc_debug()' - Added debug ball for B Alpha 1-2:1"

Also the hint appeared at the start of the mission.

[orcinus 121]

Hi Ollem

Thanks for comtinuing your fine work. I just tried the 5.4 version with CBA_A3 v5 & ASR_AI3 loading before it (no other mods) with tpwcas logging = 2, everything else at default. No balls, no start-up hint, no entries for tpwcas in the RPT other then in the loading line. Tried with just CBA & TPWCAS with the same result. I'll drop back to the previous version for now.

1.16 main branch, Win 7 Pro 64, i7 3770K @ 4.2GHz, 8GB Corsair Vengeance 1600 MHz.

BR

Orc