Iraq dares u.s. to wage ground war!

[Sam Samson 0]

we can't allow a second "munich" like the one we had in the 30s, when neville chamberlain mumbled about "peace in our time" after his conference with mr hitler. that appeasement stuff don't work.

if the us has credible info about iraq's mass destructive capabilities, may they strike fast and with impunity so other two bit hitler-wannabes may learn to henceforth take on another dictator in their area and not (the) us.

but i don't think we should go nuclear. that would just further endear us to the rest of the world, which didn't learn anything from the 30s.

[dayglow 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 21 2002,18:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hope the USA doesn't go ahead with it's invasion b/c it will totally destablize the region.<span id='postcolor'>

I would not say that it is exactly stable right now.  The U.S. should bomb Iraq EXTREMLY heavy, and then send in the ground troops. I hope Britian France, and others help us out, becuase they should after we saved their butts twice.<span id='postcolor'>

Destablize in the sense in causing more arab nations to attack USA/Israil. Nothing good can come out of it. Saddam was a US puppet put in power when Iran was the problem, now they have to deal with him. Getting rid of him will do nothing.

COLINMAN

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

U.S. does not always make very good desicions, but what country does? We need to attack Iraq take at Hussan, and show the people of Iraq what freedom really is.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 22 2002,05:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">U.S. does not always make very good desicions, but what country does? We need to attack Iraq take at Hussan, and show the people of Iraq what freedom really is.<span id='postcolor'>

...After we've bombed their country into the 15th century

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 22 2002,05:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">U.S. does not always make very good desicions, but what country does? We need to attack Iraq take at Hussan, and show the people of Iraq what freedom really is.<span id='postcolor'>

Maybe they arent interested in what the US of A feels freedom is.

I think this is the essential arrogance that Americans need to get over. Not everone wants to live in America, and not everone wants to live like an American. And it is not America's place to try to tell others how to live their lives.

[Aaron Kane 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Aug. 22 2002,05:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">5--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 22 2002,055)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">U.S. does not always make very good desicions, but what country does? We need to attack Iraq take at Hussan, and show the people of Iraq what freedom really is.<span id='postcolor'>

Maybe they arent interested in what the US of A feels freedom is.

I think this is the essential arrogance that Americans need to get over. Not everone wants to live in America, and not everone wants to live like an American.  And it is not America's place to try to tell others how to live their lives.<span id='postcolor'>

He's got a point, Duke. Just by reading these forums, I've learned a Hell-of-alot about other nationalities feelings of the USA.

[bn880 5]

Yea Duke, you should keep that post, some day you will read it and realize how silly it is. I hope.

[Antichrist 0]

Whatever Iraq had before now they signed huge contract with Russia (its either 40 billion or 40 million) so they are not as defenseless as you think!

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Antichrist @ Aug. 22 2002,05:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Whatever Iraq had before now they signed huge contract with Russia (its either 40 billion or 40 million) so they are not as defenseless as you think!  <span id='postcolor'>

So? They have some new equipment. Did they also hire the 5th Guards Tank Division to man the equipment? Because the only soldiers they have with combat experience have all been POWs and/or they are missing a limb. It'll be a slaughter, and that I can say with complete certainty

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Antichrist @ Aug. 21 2002,23:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Whatever Iraq had before now they signed huge contract with Russia (its either 40 billion or 40 million) so they are not as defenseless as you think! <span id='postcolor'>

I hope they bought some good SAM's or something, because they are going to get f****d.

Well, they could do something to really hurt the US operations, but I will not say what (no atrocity no B&C no terrorism). It would take a well developed weapon.

[Antichrist 0]

I also hope they got couple of decent SAMs!

[Othin 0]

Not that I'm condoning a war in Iraq, but the recent contract with Russia is a paper tiger in my opinion if it did come to war. Moscows ties with Washington and the "west" are more important (and profitable in the long run) then that particular contract would be.

It is actually pretty interesting to watch what the Kremlin has been doing since 1999 or so. Probably some of the best backstage politicking that has come out of that country since the height of the cold war. They've managed to increase the amount of money they have coming in from arms contracts with many countries and regimes that the "west" finds unpalatable, whilst at the same time building stronger ties with many "western" countries.

Moscow does have a vested interest in keeping the war out of Iraq because of the billions they have invested in oil contracts. Stability provides a return, if the country and region were kicked into a frenzy they would stand a fair share of losing out of what they invested in rebuilding oil wells and digging new ones. And it goes without saying, of course, that if Saddam is taken out of power Russia's chance of getting back pre-sanction debts won't happen.

Personally I hope that they don't have any new SAMS. I have no desire to see any Coalition planes shot down.

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Othin @ Aug. 22 2002,06:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Personally I hope that they don't have any new SAMS.  I have no desire to see any Coalition planes shot down.<span id='postcolor'>

You are making the assumption that there will BE a coalition should there be a Gulf War II.

I dont think there is a great deal of support anywhere outside the US for aggression against Iraq. Sure no one wants them developing WMD, but unless the US can provide conclusive and irrefutable evidence of such weapons, I doubt there will be many nations joining the attack.

I guess time will tell. Personally I think that while Saddam is a pretty nasty bastard, I dont think he is insane enough to give the US a reason to attack.

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I doubt the USA knows where these weapons are. They weren't able to destroy them during the Gulf War.<span id='postcolor'>

This is an untrue statement. We bombed many chemical weapons facilities. Don't think that we didn't have troops on Iraqi soil because we did. Special Forces and SAS teams went on deep penetration missions to hunt scuds and demolish communications lines.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Whatever Iraq had before now they signed huge contract with Russia (its either 40 billion or 40 million) so they are not as defenseless as you think! <span id='postcolor'>

Can you back this statement with some evidence? I doubt Iraq has that kind of capital. Plus Russia would be commiting a huge international relations no-no, given the fact that they are desperate for money to pump into their ailing economy. Such actions might cause them to not receive help from the IMF.

[Badgerboy 0]

Well, it seems Bush is getting cold feet anyway from what I've seen from the news...

I read an article in the Guardian yesterday, which explained the resignation of a high ranking US army Officer. Apparently, the US has just concluded a massive training exercise, and the mentioned officer played the OPFOR commander, using a thrid world country military.

He managed to sink half the US fleet with tin cans, not to mention defeating the US 'ground attacks'. Sadly, the DOD tied his hands eventually, 'turning off' SAM systems, 'refloating' ships, and allowing Marines etc, to start in enemy territory unopposed.

Needless to say, he was sickened by this and promptly resigned, quoting that the entire exercise was a fix, and was more for public morale than the military. The article is on 'Armynews.com' (you need to be a subscriber), and I'll scan the article from the paper in.

And before people start 'You US basher!', the guy was an American commander, who did a great job with limited resources.

[LauryThorn 0]

Some of you are really underestimating Iraq and its defence forces.

I don't know much about Iraq - but repeating the words "our enemy is weak

and they are subhumans and war criminals" (just like Nazis did) doesn't make

them true!

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USSoldier11B @ Aug. 22 2002,08:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Can you back this statement with some evidence? I doubt Iraq has that kind of capital. Plus Russia would be commiting a huge international relations no-no, given the fact that they are desperate for money to pump into their ailing economy. Such actions might cause them to not receive help from the IMF.<span id='postcolor'>

IMF doesn't give a damn as long as gov't shapes up.

not bad for a US soldier. most Americans don't even know exitence of IMF...

[Badgerboy 0]

Yes, the Republican Guard is a pretty tough group, utterly loyal, and was pretty untouched from the Gulf War.

All the have to do is draw US troops into CQB fighting, and their shafted. The US people do not like casulaties, which there would be many, plus many civilians would be put at risk, which also looks bad.

Iraqi should have learned that they cannot fight a conventional war effectively. If they have, then alot of US troops will be going home in bodybags for G Bush's fanaticism.

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes, the Republican Guard is a pretty tough group, utterly loyal, and was pretty untouched from the Gulf War.

<span id='postcolor'>

Actually, the XVIII Airborne Corps literally "ran" them over in their positions. They were situated along the Western boarder of Kuwait and the regulars to the South. (where the Marines invaded) Their positions were oriented to face the Gulf because the SEALS faked a mass beach landing and then they got it right up the tail pipe.

[Badgerboy 0]

Units of the Guard were engaged, but numbers were not commited to battle, due to their 'protection' of Saddam.

Thing along the lines of the Waffen SS. Determined, fanatical, and will never surrender. They are the only untis of the army that Saddam can trust. It would be foolish to underestimate them.

People seem to think they will be a push over as it was in the Gulf. I see this developing into a different style of war however, one which technology will not conquer all.

[USSoldier11B 0]

I disagree. I think the average Iraqi soldier will surrender or flee quickly. Remember Saddam rules by fear, intimidation, and by keeping his people poor and ignorant. The lack of moral and cause will make the average Iraqi soldier an ineffective foe. It's sad because hundreds of thousands of men will be forced to fight the U.S. under the threat of death. Just like in the Gulf War. The republican guard alone would stand no chance.

[R. Gerschwarzenge 0]

If Hussein wants a fair fight then he should do it in a boxing ring with mr. Bush. It would be fun to watch and no unnecessary civilian or soldier lives would be lost that way.

[LauryThorn 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (R. Gerschwarzenge @ Aug. 22 2002,09:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If Hussein wants a fair fight then he should do it in a boxing ring with mr. Bush. It would be fun to watch and no unnecessary civilian or soldier lives would be lost that way. <span id='postcolor'>

I've always fantasized that wars would be resolved like that!

If it were so, Thailand would be the 4th Reich!

[VXR 9]

heh why not hosting a ofp game for them lol

but i think when they kill saddam, iraq will launch because i have read somewhere that saddam reports himself every3 hours or something to the launch stuff and if he does not they just launch.

ground attack would also be easy for the US if they use very much arty with small warheads or let it rain MLRS

[Badgerboy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I disagree. I think the average Iraqi soldier will surrender or flee quickly. Remember Saddam rules by fear, intimidation, and by keeping his people poor and ignorant. The lack of moral and cause will make the average Iraqi soldier an ineffective foe. It's sad because hundreds of thousands of men will be forced to fight the U.S. under the threat of death. Just like in the Gulf War. The republican guard alone would stand no chance.

<span id='postcolor'>

Well that was my point. If they think ahead, they will fight a CQB. If the US want to get Saddam, its likely the'll have to go and find him. A few divisions of veteran troops in a urban area could have nasty consequences. No they can't rely on the standard grunts, but I think the've realised they are not particulary combat effective anyway.