Why does almost every game have VAS virtual ammo box.

[Reuben5150 2]

I'm really interested to know.

[Zehtuka 10]

Because mission designers often get complaints that "Item _X" is lacking and their mission sucks because of that.

[[evo] dan 79]

Because mission designers often get complaints that "Item _X" is lacking and their mission sucks because of that.

Pretty much this^. That and a little bit of laziness to add everything manually.

[terox 316]

Because you are playing on public servers who are running public style disorganised missions. In this scenario, you do not normally get command, control and group cohesion. The only way that these style of missions can work in this environment is to give every player the ability to solo play.

The easiest way to do this is to use VAS as this makes available every weapon in the cfgweapons config, meaning every new weapon that is released is automatically made available and does not require mission editing.

There are some public play servers that do restrict weapon choice to enforce some form of roleplay. You need to search for these (Try Zeus as an example of this when the admins are running their "Sim" sessions

Edited September 15, 2013 by Terox

[Reuben5150 2]

I think it's ridiculous.

Even in games like cod and bf no one has access to "everything" and arma being a milsim is no excuse.

The problem now is that everyone expects to see this feature or maybe a "shop", for example, I created a pretty simple SC mission and dumped 20+ weapons and and supply crates at each base and still every 5 mins I was getting messages saying "no ammo" what the hell...

I've mentioned this issue before and it seems people just don't see the problem, all I'll say is I won't ever lag out my server with this junk that once would have been reserved for hackers, same goes for the view distance script.

[160thSixgun 106]

To be fair, the view distance can be useful for guys with crappy machines (moi) so they can have more than 5fps.

[galzohar 31]

It's because people don't know how to do anything else. So they read the instructions on how to put VAS in your mission and there ya go. Of course it's not just VAS, but just about any script that is publicly released and is easy to use.

If you want better missions you'll have to find them and help promote them by bringing your friends over to servers that run them and help those servers fill up. Otherwise people will just keep joining the full servers with missions where everyone wait to have enough money to buy what they want and then buy it and drive around with it trying to shoot stuff (or just run people over in the main base).

View distance scripts are a waste of time in ArmA 3 since you can now set it client-side (as long as the mission is not running an overriding script).

[Robertqx 10]

I prefer it, exactly because it is more of a milsim than a "rank up by points to unlock" shooter.

I actually don't like the monetary system for buying weapons. That's not how NATO or other nation-state military forces work.

SEALs, for example have access to a relatively wide array of weapons and gear as I understand it. One SEAL, Cade Courtley (author of the SEAL Survival Guide) describes in an interview that being Navy SEAL is like getting a shopping cart at REI... basically, "Here you go, fill it up with what you want ." Granted, the regular military gets assigned weapons and gear, but I think it's more fun to play as a customized special ops-like soldier anyway.

Personally I think the ammo box should be in more of the PvP games especially, and the focus should be on tactics with your chosen kit, rather than "ranking up" to buy better weapons.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Robertqx

[thelog 10]

VAS ist gut ya?

[erazeri 1]

Because in the Alpha weapon boxes etc were so bugged accessing them could kill the server raised the demand for virtual ammo box to the roof.

[Reuben5150 2]

I prefer it, exactly because it is more of a milsim than a "rank up by points to unlock" shooter.

I actually don't like the monetary system for buying weapons. That's not how NATO or other nation-state military forces work.

SEALs, for example have access to a relatively wide array of weapons and gear as I understand it. One SEAL, Cade Courtley (author of the SEAL Survival Guide) describes in an interview that being Navy SEAL is like getting a shopping cart at REI... basically, "Here you go, fill it up with what you want ." Granted, the regular military gets assigned weapons and gear, but I think it's more fun to play as a customized special ops-like soldier anyway.

Personally I think the ammo box should be in more of the PvP games especially, and the focus should be on tactics with your chosen kit, rather than "ranking up" to buy better weapons.

Last time I checked the VAS gave access to EVERY item in the game, this is nothing to do with realism and undermines the whole class system, which by the way is defined largely by the kit they carry, any customization of kit should not go beyond what is appropriate for each class.

Its a popularity gimmick, nothing more.

[evromalarkey 150]

Actually VAS is pretty similar to LEA. You got choice to set up your custom classes and you can quickly load them on every VAS server. It's true that VAS is not good for coop (story, milsim) designed missions, where should everyone have strict type of loadout, that is on mission designer. VAS is good for public missions like Insurgency, Domination, Occupation, I&A etc. Because you got your favourite loadout on every server where VAS is, so it is a good thing.

Edited September 16, 2013 by EvroMalarkey

[pillpopper123 10]

VAS was necessary because the default ammo boxes were buggered since day one with the scrolling bug...

Now it's fixed I'm to used to VAS... :)

Edited September 16, 2013 by pillpopper123

[RushHour 11]

Instead of 45 boxes with different weapons or the mission designer spending 45 minutes loading out 8-10 guys all with different specs it´s a hell of a lot easier to put down one box and say "have at it boys".

It´s still possible to decide what type of weapons each guy should have in game in order to maximize offense against enemies.

[daskunk 1]

If you want your mission to start 45 mins after initial start use BIS ammo boxes.... if you want it to start in 2 minutes use VAS.... VAS Rox

[terox 316]

VAS can easily be edited to restrict access to whatever weapons and or equipment the mission maker deems fit either via classname, unit name, group or whatever you feel is necessary.

Dont knock VAS, its a neat gui system. Its the implementation by mission makers that makes every weapon available and its pretty obvious what type of servers the OP plays on. (That is not a criticism, it just shows lack of experience on alternative mission types)

There is more to this community than wastelands, Domination etc, you just need to look

[Harzach 2517]

If you want your mission to start 45 mins after initial start use BIS ammo boxes.... if you want it to start in 2 minutes use VAS.... VAS Rox

If you want your mission to start in two minutes, give each player slot an appropriate loadout for said mission. This includes taking the time to set up VAS "correctly".

Death to poor mission design.

[SnR 1]

Server operators require activity. Free flowing public missions with everything provides that.

[oggoeg 3]

I tried VAS on my own server back in alpha (PVP matches) and I'll say it's a massvie cock up from the mission design perspective. Needless to say things got apes**t very quickly, players would abuse it to hell, the amount of satchels and mines was ridiculous and the gameplay was just constant explosions of satchels and beebing sound of million mines planted. I'm fine with it in some Coop game modes, but don't ever put it in a PVP game mode.

Players will waste time fiddling gear all day long. You will have 15 snipers stacked on the same hill with thermal and infrared scopes (everyone will use them if they can get them, and there is no reason not to), players wearing ghillie suits in CQB, or team full of rocket launchers. Everyones trying hard to be a one man army and teamplay is just dead.

It's horrible. That said it's a major pain to script the gear to individual units and there's still no sign of loadout tab in the editor (DO WANT).

Please people have the patience to script rational loadouts or just use the standard ones in PVP game modes, otherwise it's insane. Don't be lazy. And BI should seriously get that loadout tab in game ASAP.

The only thing I've seen that is worse than VAS in PVP is the FT-2 game modes currency system. xD

[Reuben5150 2]

I tried VAS on my own server back in alpha (PVP matches) and I'll say it's a massvie cock up from the mission design perspective. Needless to say things got apes**t very quickly, players would abuse it to hell, the amount of satchels and mines was ridiculous and the gameplay was just constant explosions of satchels and beebing sound of million mines planted. I'm fine with it in some Coop game modes, but don't ever put it in a PVP game mode.

Players will waste time fiddling gear all day long. You will have 15 snipers stacked on the same hill with thermal and infrared scopes (everyone will use them if they can get them, and there is no reason not to), players wearing ghillie suits in CQB, or team full of rocket launchers. Everyones trying hard to be a one man army and teamplay is just dead.

It's horrible. That said it's a major pain to script the gear to individual units and there's still no sign of loadout tab in the editor (DO WANT).

Please people have the patience to script rational loadouts or just use the standard ones in PVP game modes, otherwise it's insane. Don't be lazy. And BI should seriously get that loadout tab in game ASAP.

The only thing I've seen that is worse than VAS in PVP is the FT-2 game modes currency system. xD

Agreed on all points.

people seem to be obsessed with gear... I don't know if this comes from dayz or what... But designers need to focus on gameplay and forget the gimmicks, if this starts to happen then people will soon forget about having z y or z item or leaving the server, ahhh.

I've been playing Blitzkrieg mostly on my own on my own server, is a pretty simple concept but really good, sadly it seems not too popular and I suspect partly because the lack of weapon / class customisation / shop / whatever, if the mission designs only follow current trends this won't change.

[kklownboy 43]

Because It rocks. Class systems are for sissys.(or just poor mission making) Playing operations (as a Operator) is the point for me. Having many different kit load outs for my part in the squad is just basic good manners. Most missions that restrict load outs suck. Really, thats just another way of making a missions just a corridor point A to B. And gets short play on our server. Ranking up and all is ok in a EVO style, but Domi or persistent style is just lame, and gets corrected fast. I mean really? Hate on VAS? wow... go play as marines with your m16....But when you get good, get in the SF/OD and when you retire go SAD. I think Ill pick my own kit thank you. Even if comes out of pocket. But the Magic of classes (kinda lame to me) is still there, Med, Repair, Sniper.... As for PVP who cares, if a server alows that in PVP well... play somewhere else.

[galzohar 31]

I think you answered it already - People are obsessed with gear, and thus missions that focus on gameplay rather than the gear will lose players for the missions that focus on gear rather than gameplay.

Of course, I'll still make missions designed for those who are not obsessed with gear. Even if we are a minority, we're a minority that deserves to have fun too.

VAS itself is obviously not the problem, because those who use VAS would have placed various ammoboxes with all the weapons anyway if they didn't have VAS, which would have made everything even worse.

[oggoeg 3]

kklownboy forgot the fact that simply most of the PVP servers have VAS in them except the poor FT-2 servers that are even worse in PVP. So there really isn't anywhere else to go to play PVP.

It's ok to have VAS in Coops, but it has problems there too. For example all the people who forgot that they actually should have taken something with them, but they were too busy to fiddle all the gear they wanted and not the ones they needed.

"Did anyone bring the satchels or charges so we can blow up the radiotower?"

-"No but I got my .50cal, ghillie and AT launcher with me".

And I'm going to disagree on the "class systems are for sissys". Putting up VAS is actually very, very lazy and horrible mission making.

IMO people who need all the gear for everyone are more sissys than those who play the actual role they have and work as a team to utilize everything they have with the team (I mean c'mon, that's what makes Arma what it its. It's a team game). And if the mission has good design, the players will have everything they need for their role.

Everyone who want's to be all tacticool one man army and whatnot, it's fine, do it. But calling people sissys for not being all super soldiers just beats me.

E: IF VAS worked on specific classes individually. Restricting items and weapons from certain classes, e.g. no AT, sniper rifle or high magnification optics for basic infantryman or medics and so on, it would be a good addition.

Worst thing VAS can do is to kill teamwork completely.

Edited September 18, 2013 by oggoeg

[galzohar 31]

Blitzkrieg, my Escalation and DTAS missions, and the upcoming PR and TBF all don't have / will not have VAS or anything similar. Might want to try those. If the server is empty, though, you'll need to have some patience and/or bring friends to join in with you, as once a server has players on it then more will join.

On the IDF server we have gungame mission running to get players in, so you don't get bored while there are only 4 players on the server. Later an admin (logged in or voted) can change the mission to Escalation or DTAS.

Basically, there may be quite a few people here complaining about bad mission design, but do nothing to help fill the servers that run missions that are designed with better gameplay.

[Guest Ti0n3r]

It's obvious to me. A3 "community" is in desperate need of more things to cry and moan about, and so VAS was created.

Personaly I like this feature if it being part of the mission makes sense, like Invade & Annex. No need to return to lobby and change role every time you want to change playstyle. ;)

Edited September 18, 2013 by Ti0n3r