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Reuben5150

Why does almost every game have VAS virtual ammo box.

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Crying and moaning? It's called discussion, mate.

Galzohar, I haven't really touched Blitz in a long time it was pretty bad when I tried it, things might have changed though, DTAS doensn't really interest me at all since large player count and no respawn can be a bit boring.

Escalation is the most interesting one but random spawn wave seems kinda odd to me. And on top of that I cannot stand the MHQ spawning or any other kind of spawning in the AO in Arma, but that's just me.

Maybe I should make a simple and quite short match based search & destroy type of PVP mission that has no respawn, specfic custom loadouts for every unit. Just to see if anyone actually likes gameplay like that. Kind of like an infiltration / raid mission.

I saw one that was close to this, but in a very small scale. It worked as proof of concept and was very fun, too bad I've never seen that mission ever again.

Eagerly waiting for PR and Tactical Battlefield mods :P Hope they raise the bar of A3 PVP. :bounce3: Neither of these will have VAS like systems in them.

Edited by oggoeg

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Sorry man, but if you don't like "no respawn" and you don't like "respawning in the AO", then what do you like? Riding a bike to battle every time you spawn?

Currently the MHQ is there as an option for players who don't have a group or have their group already deployed in the field. Vehicles will arrive to the battlefield faster when used properly. Of course this means players complain that the MHQs are too far and they have to run too much, so a balance must be met. Currently I think it is as balanced as I can make it be, as you can see you are complaining that spawn is too close while others complain it is too far, and in the end vehicles make you arrive faster than teleport, so overall I think it's pretty good.

Random spawn waves are simply so that people don't try to "time their deaths" to align with the timer. It is only slightly random so that you can't figure out when the next timer will be, but it is a similar duration every time. Also, it is made to be fair, as in both teams have their respawn wave at the same time. Timer runs on the server, and signals to all players when it is time to spawn.

If TACBF/PR deliver or not I do not know. We'll have to wait and see. There were many serious gameplay issues in PR:A2 that were more or less ignored by the developers for reasons known only to them, so we'll have to see if they will be addressed by at least one of the successors.

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Sorry man, but if you don't like "no respawn" and you don't like "respawning in the AO", then what do you like? Riding a bike to battle every time you spawn?

Currently the MHQ is there as an option for players who don't have a group or have their group already deployed in the field. Vehicles will arrive to the battlefield faster when used properly. Of course this means players complain that the MHQs are too far and they have to run too much, so a balance must be met. Currently I think it is as balanced as I can make it be, as you can see you are complaining that spawn is too close while others complain it is too far, and in the end vehicles make you arrive faster than teleport, so overall I think it's pretty good.

Random spawn waves are simply so that people don't try to "time their deaths" to align with the timer. It is only slightly random so that you can't figure out when the next timer will be, but it is a similar duration every time. Also, it is made to be fair, as in both teams have their respawn wave at the same time. Timer runs on the server, and signals to all players when it is time to spawn.

If TACBF/PR deliver or not I do not know. We'll have to wait and see. There were many serious gameplay issues in PR:A2 that were more or less ignored by the developers for reasons known only to them, so we'll have to see if they will be addressed by at least one of the successors.

I think you misunderstood me, respawns are fine and no respawns are fine. Respawning in sectors, AO or MHQ kills the use of transports, deticated pilots and tactics that come with them etc.

This is exactly what every generic FPS do all the time. Instant gratification boom bow bang. It's exactly what I ran away from by starting to play this game.

What I meant about DTAS is that it's a pain to wait for like hours before the next round starts because of the large player count. It's not like that in 8-24p or so matches.

Biggest problem with the MHQ is the fact that some ape will take it and do something really stupid with it. :j:

E: Anyway it's offtopic

Edited by oggoeg

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Really all of the things that this thread deems 'negative' about VAS are completely customizable and up to the mission maker to fix. You can exclude certain weapons/items, add only the weapons/items you want, disable restoring saved loadouts... I mean what's not to like? It's certainly better than throwing down ammo crates and if your mission is a long/persistent one you also don't have to worry about refilling those ammo crates every X minutes.

Also as someone mentioned in the Alpha using a fill crate script in MP was a mission-killer hence the birth/evolution of VAS.

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Savage, is it possible to excludes items from certain classes?

Btw. I still don't really like the idea of infinite resources in one small box.

I always liked more difficult games. Such is the vanilla Arma ammoboxes. What's in there is for you to use, but you can only take as many items there is so take good care of it and share it with the team.

But I guess it will never work out in public games as nobody gives a flying **** what the others are doing or carrying.

And no, I don't like it either if the mission maker puts up million different ammoboxes you scramble before you go and fight. That's why I'd rather have all the assets and gear the team needs right from the second you spawn in.

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Yes there is a VAS\config.sqf file - open it up and you can see there is a whitelist and blacklist section. For example I have a CAF mission using VAS which only includes the Canadian weapons, ammo and items.

I hear you though regarding limited resources.. for most COOP clan or group missions this is easily done as everyone is kinda on the same page. With a public server and a persistent mission like Insurgency, etc you need something that will not run out of items/ammo... and with VAS it's actually easier to lock things down than creating your own ammo box script.

You can also consider respawn loadouts which allow you to assign different configs to players (like the class system - rifleman, grenadier, AT, etc). Remove all weapons/items at mission start and assign each player a 'role' - they will be limited to those items/weapons and gets rid of ammo boxes entirely.. although it's usually best to put down some extra mags/smoke/etc in a box somewhere.

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3_Respawn

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Already stated that it is understandable that some Coops use VAS, even if one doensn't like it.

Thanks for the VAS config info! I might check that out, maybe I can put it into good use

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Here's my CAF config.sqf:

vas_weapons = [ 
"caf_c6gpmg", 
"caf_C7A2", 
"caf_C7A2_M203", 
"caf_c8a3", 
"caf_c8a3_cqb", 
"caf_c8a3_M203", 
"caf_c9a2", 
"M2CG", 
"hgun_P07_F" 
]; 

vas_magazines = [ 
"30RND_556X45_NATO", 
"30RND_556X45_T_STANAG", 
"200RND_556x45_BELT", 
"220RND_762X51_BELT", 
"FFV551_HEAT", 
"FFV441_HEDP", 
"16Rnd_9x21_Mag", 
"1Rnd_Smoke_Grenade_shell", 
"1Rnd_SmokeRed_Grenade_shell", 
"1Rnd_SmokeGreen_Grenade_shell", 
"1Rnd_SmokeBlue_Grenade_shell", 
"UGL_FlareWhite_F", 
"UGL_FlareRed_F", 
"UGL_FlareGreen_F", 
"1Rnd_HE_Grenade_shell", 
"SmokeShell", 
"SmokeShellGreen", 
"SmokeShellRed", 
"SmokeShellBlue", 
"HandGrenade", 
"HandGrenade_Stone", 
"SatchelCharge_Remote_Mag", 
"DemoCharge_Remote_Mag", 
"ATMine_Range_Mag", 
"APERSMine_Range_Mag", 
"APERSTripMine_Wire_Mag" 
]; 

vas_items = [ 
//CAF 
"optic_carryhandle", 
"optic_elcan", 
// "optic_elcan_3d", 
"optic_M2CG", 
"H_CAF_Boonie_AR", 
"H_CAF_Boonie_TW", 
"H_CAF_CG634_AR", 
"H_CAF_CG634_AR_net", 
"H_CAF_CG634_AR_scrim", 
"H_CAF_CG634_TW", 
"H_CAF_CG634_tw_net", 
"H_CAF_CG634_tw_scrim", 
"H_CAF_CREWHELMET", 
"U_CAF_GhilleSuit_AR", 
"U_CAF_GhilleSuit_tw", 
"U_CAF_uniform1_cadpatAR", 
"U_CAF_uniform1_cadpatTW", 
"U_CAF_uniform2_cadpatAR", 
"U_CAF_uniform2_cadpatTW", 
"V_CAF_PlateCarrier1_AR", 
"V_CAF_PlateCarrier1_TW", 
"V_CAF_PlateCarrier2_AR", 
"V_CAF_PlateCarrier2_TW", 
//endCAF 
"H_Cap_headphones", 
"Binocular", 
"NVGoggles", 
"ItemCompass", 
"ItemGPS", 
"ItemMap", 
"ItemRadio", 
"ItemWatch", 
"Medikit", 
"Toolkit", 
"FirstAidKit", 
"acc_pointer_IR", 
"muzzle_snds_L" 
]; 

vas_backpacks = [ 
"B_CAF_Carryall", 
"B_CAF_84bag_cbr", 
"B_CAF_84bag_sgg", 
"B_CAF_C6bag_cbr", 
"B_CAF_C6bag_khk", 
"B_CAF_CBTENGINEER_tan", 
"B_CAF_CBTENGINEER_sgg", 
"B_CAF_Carryall_Medical" 
];  

So players are limited to these items only from VAS. You can also do it the reverse way... have a list of stuff to remove from the box.

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Here's my CAF config.sqf:

vas_weapons = [ 
"caf_c6gpmg", 
"caf_C7A2", 
"caf_C7A2_M203", 
"caf_c8a3", 
"caf_c8a3_cqb", 
"caf_c8a3_M203", 
"caf_c9a2", 
"M2CG", 
"hgun_P07_F" 
]; 

vas_magazines = [ 
"30RND_556X45_NATO", 
"30RND_556X45_T_STANAG", 
"200RND_556x45_BELT", 
"220RND_762X51_BELT", 
"FFV551_HEAT", 
"FFV441_HEDP", 
"16Rnd_9x21_Mag", 
"1Rnd_Smoke_Grenade_shell", 
"1Rnd_SmokeRed_Grenade_shell", 
"1Rnd_SmokeGreen_Grenade_shell", 
"1Rnd_SmokeBlue_Grenade_shell", 
"UGL_FlareWhite_F", 
"UGL_FlareRed_F", 
"UGL_FlareGreen_F", 
"1Rnd_HE_Grenade_shell", 
"SmokeShell", 
"SmokeShellGreen", 
"SmokeShellRed", 
"SmokeShellBlue", 
"HandGrenade", 
"HandGrenade_Stone", 
"SatchelCharge_Remote_Mag", 
"DemoCharge_Remote_Mag", 
"ATMine_Range_Mag", 
"APERSMine_Range_Mag", 
"APERSTripMine_Wire_Mag" 
]; 

vas_items = [ 
//CAF 
"optic_carryhandle", 
"optic_elcan", 
// "optic_elcan_3d", 
"optic_M2CG", 
"H_CAF_Boonie_AR", 
"H_CAF_Boonie_TW", 
"H_CAF_CG634_AR", 
"H_CAF_CG634_AR_net", 
"H_CAF_CG634_AR_scrim", 
"H_CAF_CG634_TW", 
"H_CAF_CG634_tw_net", 
"H_CAF_CG634_tw_scrim", 
"H_CAF_CREWHELMET", 
"U_CAF_GhilleSuit_AR", 
"U_CAF_GhilleSuit_tw", 
"U_CAF_uniform1_cadpatAR", 
"U_CAF_uniform1_cadpatTW", 
"U_CAF_uniform2_cadpatAR", 
"U_CAF_uniform2_cadpatTW", 
"V_CAF_PlateCarrier1_AR", 
"V_CAF_PlateCarrier1_TW", 
"V_CAF_PlateCarrier2_AR", 
"V_CAF_PlateCarrier2_TW", 
//endCAF 
"H_Cap_headphones", 
"Binocular", 
"NVGoggles", 
"ItemCompass", 
"ItemGPS", 
"ItemMap", 
"ItemRadio", 
"ItemWatch", 
"Medikit", 
"Toolkit", 
"FirstAidKit", 
"acc_pointer_IR", 
"muzzle_snds_L" 
]; 

vas_backpacks = [ 
"B_CAF_Carryall", 
"B_CAF_84bag_cbr", 
"B_CAF_84bag_sgg", 
"B_CAF_C6bag_cbr", 
"B_CAF_C6bag_khk", 
"B_CAF_CBTENGINEER_tan", 
"B_CAF_CBTENGINEER_sgg", 
"B_CAF_Carryall_Medical" 
];  

So players are limited to these items only from VAS. You can also do it the reverse way... have a list of stuff to remove from the box.

Neat, I might actually give it a go at some point, do you have any idea if it's possible to have seperate VAS in same mission? So OPFOR and BLU have their own VAS in use?

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Hmmmm good question I'm going to guess no but I would ask in the VAS thread

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In Escalation MHQs are limited so that vehicles are a better way to get to the zone when used well. MHQs are only the alternative so you don't have to walk >2km, but still need to walk longer than it would take to drive/fly 2km. Also, there is a script that prevents people from doing something really stupid with them as they cannot be driven past a certain line marked on your map. In fact, in earlier versions MHQs were the best way to get to the objectives with vehicles as an alternative, but since re-releasing the mission as Escalation I decided to favor vehicle use over MHQ teleports, so now transport vehicles are a bit more effective than MHQs. The MHQs cannot actually be used to spawn straight into the AO. You still have to walk qutie a bit after you teleport to the MHQ. Think about the MHQ more like a FOB in PR:A2 (but more mobile yet more restricted in terms of distance from the battle). MHQs also get blocked by any combat that happens in their area, so no spawn camping or killing anyone that heads from the MHQ to the AO.

In DTAS you don't wait for hours as the default time limit is 10 minutes. It's just not that long of a wait, and you can spectate from 1st person while you wait. Sure some Russians like to change the time limit to 15-20 minutes, but you'll have to bitch at them about it, as on my end I set the default to a reasonable value :)

The main reason people use VAS is because it's automatic. Having to restrict stuff requires the mission maker to actually do something in a script, which is exactly what the VAS-using mission makers are not interested in doing.

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Nice to know that about Escalations MHQ:s seems like it's the most sane implementation yet.

The hours waiting in DTAS wansn't that serious though, the 10 minutes just feels like it :bigsmile:

I hope nobody will ever go bitch about anything to Russians, you'd only get bitching back and you wouldn't even know what they are saying, I've never heard a Russian speak english. I've only heard angry Russian bitching when they get killed. :smileee: It seems they have no idea how to speak english or just refuse to (like the French).

"The main reason people use VAS is because it's automatic. Having to restrict stuff requires the mission maker to actually do something in a script, which is exactly what the VAS-using mission makers are not interested in doing. "

Some mission makers are just a bit too lazy. Ah well, I hope BI implements some loadout managment in game so VAS can be put to rest.

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It would be unrealistic to expect of BI to do anything of quality when it comes to scripts you can use in missions. Even when they did try to do these sorts of things, it was always just not good enough to be used in high quality missions and had to be remade.

In fact, I'm surprised the ArmA 3 UAV system is actually somewhat functional.

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Depends on the mission.

I've used VAS in my co-op missions as it provides the players with choice on how they want to kit out their character. I've not encountered something that's OP so it doesn't ruin the challenge of the mission as far as I can see when testing with my friends.

A mission I'm currently working on does not have VAS in it though as I want to control what the players have access to. Since it's a defensive mission I want players to worry about the amount of ammo that is available rather than having unlimited ammo.

It's also set at night and to increase the challenge I've removed NVGs and added Grenade Launchers and Flares rounds instead. I don't want players accessing NVG via VAS as it'll kill the mission's unique feel of having to launch flares to make out the enemies bearing down of your position.

P.s. The mission's called The Keep, hopefully should finish it off and release it over the weekend if anyone is interested :)

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VAS is part of the beauty of this game. It's there for those that WANT it to be available in their mission creations..and it's NOT for those who don't. Don't like it? Write your own damn missions.

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Depends on the mission.

I've used VAS in my co-op missions as it provides the players with choice on how they want to kit out their character. I've not encountered something that's OP so it doesn't ruin the challenge of the mission as far as I can see when testing with my friends.

A mission I'm currently working on does not have VAS in it though as I want to control what the players have access to. Since it's a defensive mission I want players to worry about the amount of ammo that is available rather than having unlimited ammo.

It's also set at night and to increase the challenge I've removed NVGs and added Grenade Launchers and Flares rounds instead. I don't want players accessing NVG via VAS as it'll kill the mission's unique feel of having to launch flares to make out the enemies bearing down of your position.

P.s. The mission's called The Keep, hopefully should finish it off and release it over the weekend if anyone is interested :)

Are you releasing it on Workshop or? I might give it a go, since Alpha came out I never wanted to use NVG or NV/IR/Thermal in night missions. The night is way too beatiful and atmospheric to be ruined with green overlay. :D Flares and flashlights are just superb now, especially in PvP game modes.

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Last time I checked the VAS gave access to EVERY item in the game, this is nothing to do with realism and undermines the whole class system, which by the way is defined largely by the kit they carry, any customization of kit should not go beyond what is appropriate for each class.

Its a popularity gimmick, nothing more.

Well, it depends how you look at your role as a soldier in ARMA III.

I don't want to play as a mercenary who has to buy better weapons, I'd rather play like a Spec Ops soldier who is able to access a large array of weapons like I mentioned in my post.

The monetary system is certainly not more realistic than what the VAS offers. I think it's quite fun to be able to play and develop as a sniper and strategize with different kit choices.

To me the monetary system is much more like the "rank up" (it is this) system in other games like Battlefield and CoD.

VAS lets you play more like a SpecOps soldier where you can pick your specialty and customize your loadout.

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The problem is that there is little strategy to kitting up. You just take the biggest weapon (only dilemma is high capacity vs super-long-range), a scope, enough ammo to not run out, some first aid kits and either a launcher with the largest backpack available full of AT or AP missiles, or if it's purely CQB with no vehicles then just 50-70 grenades. If the enemy is static then maybe team up with someone for a mortar instead of the rocket/grenade backpack.

There is really no strategy to it and not a lot of options. Most options are simply not good enough when the other options are available due to lack of realistic features in the game - Stamina system not being good enough so you just carry whatever anyway, heavier weapons don't have any real disadvantages, longer weapons don't have any real disadvantage... In order for "free loadout selection" to have any "tactic-full-ness" to it, the game needs to step up the realism at least 5 notches... Until then, if you don't restrict the weapons you'll just have a clown/rambo show.

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