There should be multiple jets in the release version

[rohan 10]

Indeed. The Falkland Islands are 12,173 km^2 so having fast-movers is extremely overkill when Altis is only 270km^2 of landmass and only 900km^2 in total.

I think subsonic and CAS oriented is a nice idea, the Buzzard will be good for low and slow, imo.

Fast movers aren't overkill at all, Sure there's not that much actual land mass but there's tons of water inside and outside of the map that would make for great dogfights. Combined Arms implies some sort of fast movers even if its just one for each side, There are way to many excuses being made for the devs at this point.

If they can't come up with even 3 fast jets in the 2 years we have known about this game they should be ashamed.

[comp_uter15776 1]

Fast movers aren't overkill at all, Sure there's not that much actual land mass but there's tons of water inside and outside of the map that would make for great dogfights. Combined Arms implies some sort of fast movers even if its just one for each side, There are way to many excuses being made for the devs at this point.

If they can't come up with even 3 fast jets in the 2 years we have known about this game they should be ashamed.

I'd say it is. Judging by the relative proximity of the airbases, the fact that ArmA isn't orientated towards air combat, and that dedicated fast jets are superfluous in their entirety, one would be better off focussing on CAS/multirole. ArmA 2 has done the same and by the sounds of it, BIS is repeating that for ArmA 3. I applaud them for that, too. Looking back, the CAS a/c there had a couple of sidewinders, enough to take out most helos and jets... ArmA just isn't suited to having dogfights and the like though. By the time you take off you'll be the other side of the map. Combined Arms doesn't imply fast movers, imo. Combined Arms means utilising various assets (Be that land, air, or sea) to aid the war on the ground, not fight some battle in the sky...

Oh and "tons of water inside and outside of the map"; I can see where that will end up. Suddenly you'll have say, 5-10 players from each team fighting a battle irrelevant over say 30km at 3000m high with no visibility to the ground battle, over water... those resources could be used to help your ground assets instead of thinking you're in Top Gun.

[willjad11 10]

I too would like more jets.

[trent 14]

Indeed. The Falkland Islands are 12,173 km^2 so having fast-movers is extremely overkill when Altis is only 270km^2 of landmass and only 900km^2 in total.

I think subsonic and CAS oriented is a nice idea, the Buzzard will be good for low and slow, imo.

But there are barely any subsonic CAS planes. The ones that are are ancient. And A2's F35 was supersonic not to mention IRL the Argentinians deployed Mirages to the Falklands.

People (and the devs) should also bear in mind that supersonic attack planes can operate just dandy at subsonic speeds. Vehicles can decelerate.

[b00tsy 28]

I disagree, you are leaving out a huge reason why a lot of us flight sim fans choose to fly in ARMA. Show me any flight sim that has this level of terrain detail and combined arms interaction and I will gladly play that instead but it does not exist. I used to play flight sims only but gave up because of lack of details with terrain, vehicles, infantry etc.. Not to mention being able to work with humans on the ground to coordinate attacks or CAS/CAP.

I have had so many fun experiences supporting humans on the ground where they needed me to clear the skies or provide CAS, nothing else comes close. Heck I even had a great experience getting shot down ejecting and sneaking back behind enemy lines, again no sim can do that but I do hope ARMA goes more the sim direction as A3 seems more gamey than ever before which is not encouraging.

Big +1 from me too. Flight sims just cant compare to it. Flying on a map and having tank shells and AA missiles and HMG´s firing at you is f*ing awesome!.

---------- Post added at 11:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------

ArmA just isn't suited to having dogfights and the like though.

I strongly disagree.

[RushHour 11]

Things have been lookin grim for the f-35 program for a while, this is recent news below:

http://www.defencetalk.com/pentagon-considers-cancelling-f-35-program-48653/

A lot of countries should thank Pierre Sprey i think. He´s been very vocal about the F-35.

And just yesterday i read an article from SAAB saying that they will prosper because many countries are now re-considering their F-35 plans and that they could offer low cost, fixed price, fixed timeline of what would be a 4,5 gen aircraft.

[rohan 10]

I'd say it is. Judging by the relative proximity of the airbases, the fact that ArmA isn't orientated towards air combat, and that dedicated fast jets are superfluous in their entirety, one would be better off focussing on CAS/multirole. ArmA 2 has done the same and by the sounds of it, BIS is repeating that for ArmA 3. I applaud them for that, too. Looking back, the CAS a/c there had a couple of sidewinders, enough to take out most helos and jets... ArmA just isn't suited to having dogfights and the like though. By the time you take off you'll be the other side of the map. Combined Arms doesn't imply fast movers, imo. Combined Arms means utilising various assets (Be that land, air, or sea) to aid the war on the ground, not fight some battle in the sky...

Oh and "tons of water inside and outside of the map"; I can see where that will end up. Suddenly you'll have say, 5-10 players from each team fighting a battle irrelevant over say 30km at 3000m high with no visibility to the ground battle, over water... those resources could be used to help your ground assets instead of thinking you're in Top Gun.

But here's the problem, You say they are better off focusing on CAS/Multirole sure I understand where you are coming from but they shouldn't have to focus on certain parts of the game and completely cut out others, they should be delivering everything (and more) that ArmA 2 had and didn't have. If you are creating any sort of successor to a previous game you should be adding things the previous one didn't have instead of having less, Dogfights have always had a place in ArmA and the idea that when you take off you're on the other side of the map is a lie and you it. There is a metric ass ton of space to fly around in keeping in mind that in a dogfight you are rarely going full speed in a straight line, Chernarus had plenty of room for fast jets provided you actually turn once in a while.

[chortles 263]

It seems more like somewhere within the BI offices, someone among the-powers-that-be decided that "we can't deliver everything (and more) that ArmA 2 had and didn't have" (by September 12, 2013)... then again, this is a dev team where it was only realized after June 25th that the planned campaign wouldn't be complete by September 12.

[cpl_hicks 2]

But here's the problem, You say they are better off focusing on CAS/Multirole sure I understand where you are coming from but they shouldn't have to focus on certain parts of the game and completely cut out others, they should be delivering everything (and more) that ArmA 2 had and didn't have. If you are creating any sort of successor to a previous game you should be adding things the previous one didn't have instead of having less, Dogfights have always had a place in ArmA and the idea that when you take off you're on the other side of the map is a lie and you it. There is a metric ass ton of space to fly around in keeping in mind that in a dogfight you are rarely going full speed in a straight line, Chernarus had plenty of room for fast jets provided you actually turn once in a while.

Its called freedom and its what Arma has and should always be about! It drives me crazy when stuff that was in previous games is no longer in the next generation, this is why I stopped after battlefield2, I cant remember what it was but when I tried BF3 I realized they put in many limitations that were not there before.

I have been in plenty of great dogfights in plenty of servers for arma2, its all up to the map creator to set things up proper scenarios. I really disagree based on experience that ARMA can't facilitate a good fixed wing experience on all levels, CAP, CAS, transport, etc... I have seen and done it all fixed wing wise in A2 and while its not perfect it is still a major aspect for many of us!!

[comp_uter15776 1]

Its called freedom and its what Arma has and should always be about! It drives me crazy when stuff that was in previous games is no longer in the next generation, this is why I stopped after battlefield2, I cant remember what it was but when I tried BF3 I realized they put in many limitations that were not there before.

I have been in plenty of great dogfights in plenty of servers for arma2, its all up to the map creator to set things up proper scenarios. I really disagree based on experience that ARMA can't facilitate a good fixed wing experience on all levels, CAP, CAS, transport, etc... I have seen and done it all fixed wing wise in A2 and while its not perfect it is still a major aspect for many of us!!

Now I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any a/c that focus on AA rather than AG/AS, but BIS are specifically at this moment in time looking for those that aren't primarily AA based - evident from the aircraft shown in the lolstream earlier.

[nimrod123 11]

It seems more like somewhere within the BI offices, someone among the-powers-that-be decided that "we can't deliver everything (and more) that ArmA 2 had and didn't have" (by September 12, 2013)... then again, this is a dev team where it was only realized after June 25th that the planned campaign wouldn't be complete by September 12.

would you prefer a paradox (at least the old one) solution, where they ship everything in a fucked up, unplayable state. or they release less, but working. thats good project management, deliver what you can in good form. whats bad is that they have told the "client" what features they might have, and given hard dates for stuff.

the more i read the shit people post on the forums i come to 3 conclusions

1; hardly anyone has done any coding, and thinks games are some kind of magic that just happens

2; that every one has no idea that projects like this can go off schedule and that compromises sometimes must be made

3; that the policy of some companies where they simply do the game without responding to general talk, is a good idea (hidden smaller forums tend to work)

[Tankbuster 1747]

Its called freedom and its what Arma has and should always be about!

I can't agree. This game is supposed to be combined arms and that means integrated, multiple combat arms combining to achieve a military objective. Biggles and Algie duking it out in the skies above the battlefield isn't necessarily that. The various sections of the forces work as a team. Having two guys dogfighting above the battlefield separated and not involved in the battle down below is foreign to the Arma ethic.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be free to do this, or that mission makers shouldn't make mission that focus on the dogfight or air to air role. I am saying it's not core to the game, nor is it what the game is designed for or does best.

[bangtail 0]

The series was never really conducive to fast air operations.

Despite the fact that maps like Chernarus are very large, you can still cover them in less than a minute in a jet.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have jets, but I certainly don't think there should be a focus on them over infantry, armor, rotary wing, ships etc.

I've definitely appreciated fast air when playing game modes like MSO but as Tankbuster said, air to air is not really a big part of the game out of the box.

Obviously, what people choose to use the editor to create is entirely up to them and the beauty of the OFP/Arma series of games.

[rohan 10]

I can't agree. This game is supposed to be combined arms and that means integrated, multiple combat arms combining to achieve a military objective. Biggles and Algie duking it out in the skies above the battlefield isn't necessarily that. The various sections of the forces work as a team. Having two guys dogfighting above the battlefield separated and not involved in the battle down below is foreign to the Arma ethic.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be free to do this, or that mission makers shouldn't make mission that focus on the dogfight or air to air role. I am saying it's not core to the game, nor is it what the game is designed for or does best.

I don't think you grasp the concept of Air Superiority, Jets fighting other jets to secure the air for bombers and CAS planes is a vital part of combined arms this is even more true when you get into a scenario like the ones MSO can offer.

[RushHour 11]

2x 5th gen fighter jets - F-22 Raptor / SukHoi PAK-FA

2x transport planes - C17 and A400M

2x CAS - A10 and the one we have already seen so far.

That would be a dream.

[f27sharps 1]

2x 5th gen fighter jets

2x transport planes

2x CAS

That would be a dream.

It's sounds good ! But I think it's not for now

[RushHour 11]

Worst case scenario, modders will probably come out with some high-quality models.

[comp_uter15776 1]

2x 5th gen fighter jets - F-22 Raptor / SukHoi PAK-FA

2x transport planes - C17 and A400M

2x CAS - A10 and the one we have already seen so far.

That would be a dream.

Reverse that list and I wouldn't mind seeing it implemented through in that order.

[Chairborne 2594]

I don't think you grasp the concept of Air Superiority, Jets fighting other jets to secure the air for bombers and CAS planes is a vital part of combined arms this is even more true when you get into a scenario like the ones MSO can offer.

And while you play topgun what is the infantry/rest of the force supposed to do? Stand there and watch while you perform air acrobatics 20km away from the actual fights?

[RushHour 11]

And while you play topgun what is the infantry/rest of the force supposed to do? Stand there and watch while you perform air acrobatics 20km away from the actual fights?

Ok imagine this,

"we got info that a Raptor has just left enemy base and is heading our way, what do we do?"

"scramble the jet got damnit!"

And boom, you are safe to carry on your mission while you call in the real CAS to help you out.

the possibilities are endless.

[Smurf 12]

Ok imagine this,

"we got info that a Raptor has just left enemy base and is heading our way, what do we do?"

"scramble the jet got damnit!"

And boom, you are safe to carry on your mission while you call in the real CAS to help you out.

the possibilities are endless.

More like

"we got info that a Raptor has just left enemy base and is heading our way, what do we do?"

"Yeah we know, he just passed over us like 3 times, so fast we barely could see it"

Arma maps are really small for general air to air combat and tactics. It`s nice to have but it is just a mimic; If I had to choose between fighters and transports or more CAS planes, I take the later any day. Luckly we don`t have to choose.

[RushHour 11]

haha :) Got a mental image sitting in the woods just seeing streaks of smoke across the sky but no plane.

Could be good for catching CAS though, if you chase after it with another CAS you will probably hit the same speed as him and never catch him.

A raptor would run eights around it.

[comp_uter15776 1]

haha :) Got a mental image sitting in the woods just seeing streaks of smoke across the sky but no plane.

Could be good for catching CAS though, if you chase after it with another CAS you will probably hit the same speed as him and never catch him.

A raptor would run eights around it.

With ArmA's current tablock system you don't even need to be that close ;)

Bearing in mind that sidewinders (current gen) have an operational range of around 35km, and afaik A3 doesn't include any effective range limits, you just aim roughly where they are, spot em, and bam :|

[RushHour 11]

Maybe a slight nerf of that could be possible? Like a 1km zone where you can lock targets in.

[JohnnieConcrete 1]

Good Bye OP a self confessed long time BIS fan that's had his account open from April 10 2013, Don't come back we Arma community don't need this kind of negativity, HAVE SOME PATIENCE, THERE IS A LOT OF WORK TO DO.