TPW FALL: realistic infantry falling system

[Guest]

Updated version frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage.

TPW FALL: realistic infantry falling system [bETA] v1.03



Community Base addons A3

===================================================

We have also "connected" these pages to your account on Armaholic.

This means in the future you will be able to maintain these pages yourself if you wish to do so. Once this new feature is ready we will contact you about it and explain how things work and what options you have.

When you have any questions already feel free to PM or email me!

Edited July 4, 2013 by Guest
updated to latest version :))

[tpw 2313]

Download: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/481663/TPW_FALL_103.zip

Changes:

• Groupchat yells have been replaced with real gasps/grunts.
  
• Workaround for currentweapon returning all AIs as having no weapon regardless of their weapon.
  

---------- Post added at 18:48 ---------- Previous post was at 18:47 ----------

Thanks very much Foxhound, unfortunately you were about 10 minutes too early!

Updated version frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage.

http://www.armaholic.com/datas/users/news_download_a3_3.png

TPW FALL: realistic infantry falling system [bETA] v1.02

http://www.armaholic.com/skins/Blaster07/img/required_addons.png

Community Base addons A3

===================================================

We have also "connected" these pages to your account on Armaholic.

This means in the future you will be able to maintain these pages yourself if you wish to do so. Once this new feature is ready we will contact you about it and explain how things work and what options you have.

When you have any questions already feel free to PM or email me!

[dmarkwick 261]

I noticed once that my avatar went into a temporary ragdoll mode when I ejected from a moving vehicle, I wonder if that means ragdoll can be scripted to temporarily become active? That would be good in some circumstances :)

[tpw 2313]

I noticed once that my avatar went into a temporary ragdoll mode when I ejected from a moving vehicle, I wonder if that means ragdoll can be scripted to temporarily become active? That would be good in some circumstances :)

Yeah apparently you can force a unit to ragdoll by hitting it hard with something (usually the ground!). I've seen some hacks where people spawn an object, smash it into an AI, and then remove it quickly enough that you don't see anything other than the ragdoll. I might look into something like that, but would prefer that BIS just came up with a way to trigger ragdoll for any unit.

[tpw 2313]

TPW SOUND v1.00: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/481663/TPW_SOUND_100.zip

Here's a tiny little config patch to replace the silent "dummy" placeholder sounds for laydown/standup with crawl sounds. Until BIS gets round to implementing the real sounds, this will stop you diving silently into the ground. It sort of complements the TPW FALL system of providing noises for falls, so I've released it here instead of its own thread.

[giorgygr 61]

(always) ..to be honest-i haven't yet tried the addon for the solely purpose i believe "it has some road yet to cross".

but..

(in further progress) i know it will be in my "essentials" list *as with your other addons we 've experienced in A2.

I m always keeping an eye to this thread.

[tpw 2313]

OK, last update before I go to sleep.

TPW FALL v1.04: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/481663/TPW_FALL_104.zip

Changes:

• Using getpos and playsound3d was causing sounds to be played underground the higher above sea level the unit got. Fixed by using getposasl.
  

[kremator 1064]

Nice one tpw.

[McLupo 118]

OK, last update before I go to sleep.

TPW FALL v1.04: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/481663/TPW_FALL_104.zip

Changes:

• Using getpos and playsound3d was causing sounds to be played underground the higher above sea level the unit got. Fixed by using getposasl.
  

Thank you so much for your never ending efforts!

I have so much fun, playing with that improved version, because it works very well and is an immersive work.

Cheers

McLupo

For the interested audience a new visual "promoter" of the new version 1.04

Edited July 4, 2013 by McLupo
Video added

[DJankovic 401]

download it and tested it and this addon have potencial just it nead to be worked on it..lets say..because this i military game not drunk guys..no offence eaven if they jump from 50 cm(or inch doesnt matter) of hight they will fall down if there is any possibility that when soldiers are jumping from some not so small hights that they go to crouch and weapon down but still combat effective not to lay on side all the time.. i like the idea keep it working man :)

[tpw 2313]

Thank you so much for your never ending efforts!

I have so much fun, playing with that improved version, because it works very well and is an immersive work.

Cheers

McLupo

For the interested audience a new visual "promoter" of the new version 1.04

Thanks very much McLupo. I'll update the first page with it.

[lordprimate 159]

TPW - Any way to increase the height for the falls? It seems like you fall way too much..

Nice video McLupo!

[tpw 2313]

TPW - Any way to increase the height for the falls? It seems like you fall way too much..

Nice video McLupo!

Are you using the script or addon? If using the addon you can play around with a few variables:

_int: speed checking interval (default 0.125sec)

_lowthresh: the speed which triggers kneeling (default -3m/s)

_highthresh: the speed which triggers falling (default -5m/s)

I experimented a lot to find values that suited me, but they aren't for everyone. They roughly approximate to kneeling for falls of 0.5m or so, and falling over for falls of 1.5m or more. For a soldier carrying 30+ kg of extra weight, that didn't seem unreasonable. If you jump off the edge of the canal running through Agia (2+ m), then you're going to fall over. And I'd imagine that you'd roll in a such a way as to not drop your weapon. The whole concept of the mod is to give a sense of consequence to jumping from things, so that you don't just spend your time running and jumping like every other game.

The bigger problem is if you jog/sprint everywhere, which people testing this mod are doing as they run around looking for things to jump from. This causes instantaneous height transitions when you run from say a 20cm high step to the ground. These transitions don't occur when walking, and they immediately give the unit a speed far greater than what gravity should do. I am currently working on a way to filter these out.

My next release should have this instantaneous transition filtering and user configuration for the addon version. This should hopefully address your concerns.

[Guest]

Updated version frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage.

TPW FALL: realistic infantry falling system [bETA] v1.04



Community Base addons A3

===================================================

We have also "connected" these pages to your account on Armaholic.

This means in the future you will be able to maintain these pages yourself if you wish to do so. Once this new feature is ready we will contact you about it and explain how things work and what options you have.

When you have any questions already feel free to PM or email me!

[Demongornot 10]

Can be nice but REALLY need to be improved.

When we jump from 1/2m we DON'T fall on the ground except if we don't know how to use our body, almost everyone when we was child already have jump from lat least 1m or 2 without fall on the ground at each jump.

Example here :

Look at this video at 10 seconds, DON'T fall on the ground, he even EASILY "land" and run immediately WITHOUT any delay (i was already kill cause of the stupid delay from vanilla jump) and with your system it took MORE TIME before we can run again, a simple animation of the guy absorb the fall by bend his knees and for higher jump make him go to ground WITHOUT fall like in the video and make him go to kneeling position, but NOT prone position.

For higher jump like 2m and over yes, fall on the ground and chance to get hurt can be great, but it is useless to fall on the ground and even make noise if you get a bad unrealistic and too long delay before be able to run again, we simulate too much a robot, we need MO HUMAN character, the game is actually too much limited, 3 hour to vault things, no way to climb on small object, impossible to climb on roof (i don't need an helicopter to go on a flat roof of a small house) so please don't put more limitation, mods are supposed to give more realism and push limitation to a realistic level.

Also the fall when we are on rock is a BAD idea, the vanilla character is like stupid on rock and we get stuck a lot of time, when people can without protection climb vertical rock with hands, in Arma we need 3 hours and 3000 vaulting to unstuck ourselves from rock, if in plus if this we fall every 5 seconds while trying to unstuck ourselves, mainly when we know that Arma will NEVER handle thing like realistic climbing, it is a really bad idea and it push one more time the simulation far away from the reality.

My suggestions :

_Trying to make a dynamic system based on character weight (gear/weapon and other stuff he get on him).

_For 1m jump and under use a simple fast animation (maybe with stance change for stand up standard to stand up low and back to stand up standard) and don't prevent us to walk/run while running the animation, cause for 1m height jump we never fall on the ground, or we are stupid/unlucky, take example on the video i have show you at 10 seconds.

_Between 1m and 2m jump we automatically switch from stand up to kneeling position that will immediately back to stand up position (for simulate knee bending without need to create a new animation) and can't move during the transition that must be under 1 seconds (we don't need more for bend our knee and back to stand up position before run/walk again and we can't in real life move while absorbing the fall)

_Between 2m and 2m50 we automatically get the lower kneeling stance for 1,5 seconds + automatically stand up, we get unable to move for 2 seconds (which is long but feet with real life jump recovery like at the end of the video i have give the link)

_Over 2m50 always fall on the ground.

_When jump over 1,50m we have random chance to fall on the ground, like 20% of chance to fall like your mods actually do, over 2m we have 50% chance to fall on the ground, at 2,5 m we have 75%/80% and over 2,5 we always fall.

_Same percentage of fall value must be applied to possible wound FOR fall, it mean when we don't fall we can't be hurt, we success our jump, but when we fall we have a percentage of value to be hurt, cause falling mean that something goes wrong :

1m50 fall = 20/25% to be hurt, 2m fall = 50% etc, the fall percent value is the same than the hurt percent value WHEN we fall (can't be hurt when we don't fall)

It mean for 2m jump, 50% of chance to fail the jump and fall and get the actual fall you have implemented, every time we fall we have 50% of chance to get hurt, it mean every 2m jump we have max 25% of chance to be hurt.

Weight that the guy carry increase all value by adding 20% for the max weight that the guy can carry, it mean with standard weight on the guy we have 10% in plus to fall, and for get hurt for each fall, which mean 90% of chance to fall for 2m50 m jump and 90% to get hurt.

Be easy with wounding level please, we just fall, we don't take a shoot.

_Under 1m jump must be quiet but over 1m jump the sound you have actually put in your mods look good, and bigger shouts and fall noise for 2m50 and over.

Also if you can :

_Energy consummation, each time we jump over 1m it must add fatigue effect, for 1m it is a low value and for 2m50 it begin to be a big value, not enough for completely exhaust the player's character but almost it.

_Considerably reducing the fall ground value when we are on rock, of course we have chance to fall and it is nice to implement it, but not that much, a guy who fall like this on rock will be considerate like a stupid and not good at all really clumsy and also falling every 2 second while walking on rock, i don't sure in real life do it will increase our lifetime cause its dangerous, that why we get really careful while walk on rock on real life.

Maybe force the player to walk on slow speed (really bad idea, look at the number 2) on sharped rock with a lot of relief or increase the fall chance for the moving speed on rock can be really nice and realistic, but while walking slowly we have really poor chance to fall.

Also with rare value to fall while on rock implement possibility (small one of course) to get hurt while walking too fast on rock can be realistic, and when Atlis (who will for sure have river) will be out you can improve the mods by adding the same thing for walking trough river, cause in real life when we walk on river, mainly on rock we have big chance to fall and sometime we can get hurt, of course it is superficial injury but it still happen and it is not painless.

I hope by idea list will help you and i really hope you can/will do it.

I won't use your mods until it is fixed but anyways thanks a lot for your mods !

[McLupo 118]

Hello tpw :),

as i wrote:

"It will be reviewed"

Now, it has been reviewed!

Have a look and thanks once again for the awesome work and sharing it!

Review of the "TPW FALL"

http://www.arma2base.de/include.php?path=forumsthread&threadid=2202&entries=0#post16194

Best regards

McLupo

[tpw 2313]

Thanks for taking the time to leave such a detailed post Demongornot, plenty of interesting ideas in there and plenty I don't agree with at all, as is my prerogative as the mod maker. Showing me a video of tracksuit wearing teenagers parkour jumping and using it to negatively compare to my stance adjustments to laden down combat units is a bit of stretch I have to say.

Anyway, I have started recoding this thing from scratch to give me some more flexibility to implement different reactions to different fall speeds, and can certainly take player weight into consideration. I've already thought about an injury system but am very wary of it, since a lot of people prefer the engine or other scripts to handle this.

As always, in the absence of my own mocap rig I'm limited by the amount of animations BIS has provided and it's difficult to get them to approximate the real physical reaction to landing from a fall.

I hope you and everyone else understands that this mod is actually only several days old and I explicitly stated that it has enormous scope for improvement. I'm not a BIS developer changing the core engine, just a user making a mod to improve things to my taste. I will continue to try to improve it as my time and enthusiasm permit, so feel free to use or not use it as you wish.

Sorry for the slight rant, I had a late night and am nursing a hangover.

Can be nice but REALLY need to be improved.

When we jump from 1/2m we DON'T fall on the ground except if we don't know how to use our body, almost everyone when we was child already have jump from lat least 1m or 2 without fall on the ground at each jump.

Example here :

Look at this video at 10 seconds, DON'T fall on the ground, he even EASILY "land" and run immediately WITHOUT any delay (i was already kill cause of the stupid delay from vanilla jump) and with your system it took MORE TIME before we can run again, a simple animation of the guy absorb the fall by bend his knees and for higher jump make him go to ground WITHOUT fall like in the video and make him go to kneeling position, but NOT prone position.

For higher jump like 2m and over yes, fall on the ground and chance to get hurt can be great, but it is useless to fall on the ground and even make noise if you get a bad unrealistic and too long delay before be able to run again, we simulate too much a robot, we need MO HUMAN character, the game is actually too much limited, 3 hour to vault things, no way to climb on small object, impossible to climb on roof (i don't need an helicopter to go on a flat roof of a small house) so please don't put more limitation, mods are supposed to give more realism and push limitation to a realistic level.

Also the fall when we are on rock is a BAD idea, the vanilla character is like stupid on rock and we get stuck a lot of time, when people can without protection climb vertical rock with hands, in Arma we need 3 hours and 3000 vaulting to unstuck ourselves from rock, if in plus if this we fall every 5 seconds while trying to unstuck ourselves, mainly when we know that Arma will NEVER handle thing like realistic climbing, it is a really bad idea and it push one more time the simulation far away from the reality.

My suggestions :

_Trying to make a dynamic system based on character weight (gear/weapon and other stuff he get on him).

_For 1m jump and under use a simple fast animation (maybe with stance change for stand up standard to stand up low and back to stand up standard) and don't prevent us to walk/run while running the animation, cause for 1m height jump we never fall on the ground, or we are stupid/unlucky, take example on the video i have show you at 10 seconds.

_Between 1m and 2m jump we automatically switch from stand up to kneeling position that will immediately back to stand up position (for simulate knee bending without need to create a new animation) and can't move during the transition that must be under 1 seconds (we don't need more for bend our knee and back to stand up position before run/walk again and we can't in real life move while absorbing the fall)

_Between 2m and 2m50 we automatically get the lower kneeling stance for 1,5 seconds + automatically stand up, we get unable to move for 2 seconds (which is long but feet with real life jump recovery like at the end of the video i have give the link)

_Over 2m50 always fall on the ground.

_When jump over 1,50m we have random chance to fall on the ground, like 20% of chance to fall like your mods actually do, over 2m we have 50% chance to fall on the ground, at 2,5 m we have 75%/80% and over 2,5 we always fall.

_Same percentage of fall value must be applied to possible wound FOR fall, it mean when we don't fall we can't be hurt, we success our jump, but when we fall we have a percentage of value to be hurt, cause falling mean that something goes wrong :

1m50 fall = 20/25% to be hurt, 2m fall = 50% etc, the fall percent value is the same than the hurt percent value WHEN we fall (can't be hurt when we don't fall)

It mean for 2m jump, 50% of chance to fail the jump and fall and get the actual fall you have implemented, every time we fall we have 50% of chance to get hurt, it mean every 2m jump we have max 25% of chance to be hurt.

Weight that the guy carry increase all value by adding 20% for the max weight that the guy can carry, it mean with standard weight on the guy we have 10% in plus to fall, and for get hurt for each fall, which mean 90% of chance to fall for 2m50 m jump and 90% to get hurt.

Be easy with wounding level please, we just fall, we don't take a shoot.

_Under 1m jump must be quiet but over 1m jump the sound you have actually put in your mods look good, and bigger shouts and fall noise for 2m50 and over.

Also if you can :

_Energy consummation, each time we jump over 1m it must add fatigue effect, for 1m it is a low value and for 2m50 it begin to be a big value, not enough for completely exhaust the player's character but almost it.

_Considerably reducing the fall ground value when we are on rock, of course we have chance to fall and it is nice to implement it, but not that much, a guy who fall like this on rock will be considerate like a stupid and not good at all really clumsy and also falling every 2 second while walking on rock, i don't sure in real life do it will increase our lifetime cause its dangerous, that why we get really careful while walk on rock on real life.

Maybe force the player to walk on slow speed (really bad idea, look at the number 2) on sharped rock with a lot of relief or increase the fall chance for the moving speed on rock can be really nice and realistic, but while walking slowly we have really poor chance to fall.

Also with rare value to fall while on rock implement possibility (small one of course) to get hurt while walking too fast on rock can be realistic, and when Atlis (who will for sure have river) will be out you can improve the mods by adding the same thing for walking trough river, cause in real life when we walk on river, mainly on rock we have big chance to fall and sometime we can get hurt, of course it is superficial injury but it still happen and it is not painless.

I hope by idea list will help you and i really hope you can/will do it.

I won't use your mods until it is fixed but anyways thanks a lot for your mods !

---------- Post added at 13:40 ---------- Previous post was at 13:38 ----------

Wow, thank you very much! Just what my ego needed McLupo!

Hello tpw :),

as i wrote:

"It will be reviewed"

Now, it has been reviewed!

Have a look and thanks once again for the awesome work and sharing it!

Review of the "TPW FALL"

http://www.arma2base.de/include.php?path=forumsthread&threadid=2202&entries=0#post16194

Best regards

McLupo

[Masharra 10]

Showing me a video of tracksuit wearing teenagers parkour jumping and using it to negatively compare to my stance adjustments to laden down combat units is a bit of stretch I have to say.

Hmm you read my thoughts. There is already a massive difference when falling when you have just plates in, add in the rest of the gear and you tend to go to the ground relatively easily. I will admit that the prone animation isnt the best but you have to work with what you have and damn good work it is!

[tpw 2313]

Hi guys.

Here is a total overhaul of TPW FALL which hopefully addresses the majority of concerns that have been raised here. The most fundamental change is that I now monitor how far a unit travels whilst in the air by determining when it leaves/regains the ground using the A3 specific command istouchingground. What this means is that I can determine the distance travelled to within 20cm or so, and implement different reactions to the different distances fallen. This is so much more precise and computationally lighter than monitoring speed, and completely eliminates the false positives caused by instantaneous transitions from small objects.

The code is now much more modular and has allowed me to implement some additional randomness, and some additional realism by taking into account unit fatigue and weight.

I think I've managed to strike a better balance between realism and playability, certainly the player now won't fall over just from jogging around, unless they jog off the edge of a canal.

TPW FALL v1.05: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/481663/TPW_FALL_105.zip

Changes:

• Total rewrite of the code. Uses istouchingground to determine if infantry has jumped/fallen. Much more precise than monitoring unit speed.
  
• Removed false positives due to running over small objects and rough terrain. Unless unit leaves the ground, a fall cannot be triggered.
  
• Added fatigue influence. A tired unit is more likely to fall after a jump from a given height.
  
• Added weight influence. A heavier unit is more likely to fall after a jump from a given height.
  
• Added more randomness to yells/grunts. A unit will no longer yell after every large fall.
  
• The time taken for a unit to recover from a fall increases with distance. A unit will not stand up from a fall of greater than 4m.
  

Edited July 6, 2013 by tpw

[CameronMcDonald 146]

:don3:

Thanks, mate.

[runekn 3]

tqw, what object do you use to trip over when testing?

[tpw 2313]

tqw, what object do you use to trip over when testing?

I just run along the rocky gully leading into the military range at Agia, which is full of small boulders. With v1.04 and earlier, the player will sooner or later trip over the boulders. With v1.05, the player cannot trip unless his feet leave the ground. For that you either need to step off a higher ledge, or vault over a larger boulder on steep terrain.

[Guest]

Updated version frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage.

TPW FALL: realistic infantry falling system [bETA] v1.05



Community Base addons A3

===================================================

We have also "connected" these pages to your account on Armaholic.

This means in the future you will be able to maintain these pages yourself if you wish to do so. Once this new feature is ready we will contact you about it and explain how things work and what options you have.

When you have any questions already feel free to PM or email me!

[tpw 2313]

Thanks Foxhound, much appreciated as always.

[fragmachine 12]

Great mod but it does seem to be broken on development branch.

Units can stand up from falls higher than 4 meters and there aren't any fall to the ground animation, they just lift their legs a little in the mid-air and land on feet like cats :cool:

Anyway, the idea is really great. I wonder if it could work out in the future with active ragdoll (which devs comfirmed some time ago that would be possible <only if>) - like when we fall on the slope terrain fall animation would be transitioned into ragdoll until the body stops.