Fatigue effects

[afp 1]

I performed some tests to see how "realistic" the fatigue effects occurs in beta version.

Some general considerations for the beggining. First, we don't have to assume that if the weather is sunny, there are necessary 45C degrees outside, there can be as well as 25C. Second, you can see in the following video people running at marathon, lasting about 40km and 2 hours, with pretty high speed:

Soldiers may not be marathonist but for sure they are not fat kids playing console all day long. In fact they become closer to marathonists by training.

Now, I've put a soldier on the top of Stratis airport and removed his plate carier, keeping only main weapon and helmet. Started running to the other side of the airport, so pretty easy gear and no slope at all. The fatigue effects occured after about 800m and about 3 minutes, all of them including blur and that dark margins. And that happened without any sprinting!. If I sprinted ocasionally, I could do it only for like 30 seconds, sprinting becoming unavailable at all after that!

This lead to a single conclusion. This is not even realistic any way, not to mention you don't go blind or look through a tunnel after 800m of light jogging...

Edited June 26, 2013 by afp

[dmarkwick 261]

Now, I've put a soldier on the top of Stratis airport and removed his plate carier, keeping only main weapon and helmet. Started running to the other side of the airport, so pretty easy gear and no slope at all. The fatigue effects occured after about 800m and about 3 minutes, all of them including blur and that dark margins. And that happened after no sprinting at all!. If I sprinted ocasionally, I could do it only for like 30 seconds, sprinting becoming unavailable at all after that!

This lead to a single conclusion. This is not even realistic any way, not to mention you don't become blind or look through a tunnel after 800 m of light running...

...but. Also after 800m of running are you not sitting at a desk with a PC having not actually run at all. It's a level of abstraction which is there to give an indication that you are getting tired, and that subsequently you know your aim & steadiness is going to be off because you'll need a short while to catch your breath. I mean, a little blurring & vignetting itself is not going to bother you too much, but it's just an abstracted method of telling you that you're going to need a few seconds before you're going to be a steady shot when you eventually do stop.

[.kju 3244]

Forced PP/blur is a no go as its bad for some people's health (similar to motion sickness).

[nikiforos 450]

Consider that people with epilepsy might have huge problems with the forced blur. So please either remove it or make it less visual.

[St. Jimmy 272]

One thing I've thinking to replace blur is that your vision becomes more limited the more tired you are. Limiting vision with black borders like your eyes become more closed. I'm thinking effect something like what Project Reality did when you're laying on the ground badly wounded.

I agree that soldier becomes tired too easily now but they aren't marathoners because they have more clothes and equipment on them and temperature should have some effect.

[five_seven5-7 56]

i prefer a head bob than a forced PP/blur, the fatigue we experience it´s more related to the head bobbing from inspiring and expiring than blur resulting from lack of oxygen

[TSAndrey 1]

Forced PP/blur could also impact the performance

[chortles 263]

Sounds like we need a Feedback Tracker ticket...

[dmarkwick 261]

;2421864']Forced PP/blur is a no go as its bad for some people's health (similar to motion sickness).

Then what would be the point of having a blur PP at all? :)

In any case, the effect is easy to bypass in video options. I play with no PP at all for example, but only because I don't really dig it.

[.kju 3244]

It seems you can no longer disable PP effects via video options since beta..

It should be optional for those who like it.

[Azzur33 1]

There is no need to get rid of the fatigue effects.

They affect the way you play, for a reason.

The effect is quite subtle, you can still run further, you can still see, you can still fight. And if you stop and/or lay down, it goes away almost immediately.

But you start to think how you use your strength, when to sprint, when to save energy, when to rest a bit.

[alx 20]

A fatigue effect is a good idea but seems to be overly implemented in the current build. Why not use heavy breathing/heartbeat to tell the player they are getting fatigued and decrease their speed and aim over time. The blurry effect is too much and, as stated above, may have issues with some player's real world health. Better yet would be to allow the server to set these parameters (timing and intensity of effects).

[gossamersolid 155]

The effect is quite subtle

No... No it isn't.

You sprint for 10 seconds and your guy appears to be having an acid trip or something.

These over-done effects need to go.

[.kju 3244]

Azzur33 it affects some people's well being while playing - you want them to not be able to play Arma?

[EDcase 87]

I wonder if the effect is the same for everyone because Idon't notice it that much and I have PP on normal with 150% DoF

I agree and have said before that you get the fatigue effect too quickly after running or sprinting. Running time should be much longer before fatigue hits.

[TSAndrey 1]

I still don't see what was wrong with A2's fatigue. If you get tired, your character breaths heavily, does all actions slower, and can't sprint. I really don't see a need for any PP effects

[bumgie 49]

Having tested this just now I think the Effect is not as bad as some describe it. What would be its sickness inducing effect ? Isnt it highly specific to each person is the scene seizure inducing or not. Besides making the rate of blur somewhat random would help break the repetition.

What is wrong however is that the total weight player is carrying has too little effect on his movement ability.

Low weight player shold be able to sprint and jog longer than its currently possible.

Player with lots of equipment has the sprint length set to a good level, but is able to jog forever.

I used setfatigue 1 on the player and he is still able to jog. I think it would be better that if the unit gets to fatigued to 1 he should stop joging.

[gossamersolid 155]

I still don't see what was wrong with A2's fatigue. If you get tired, your character breaths heavily, does all actions slower, and can't sprint. I really don't see a need for any PP effects

Exactly this. I prefer this system, but it should be modified a bit so that more weight on your soldier = slower movement.

I don't want any stupid post processing effects on the corners of my screen.

[RadicalAtHeart 11]

No blur when you are tired please. It's not realistic. Put a heavy bag on your back and sprint. I want you to tell me if you saw blurry.

[dmarkwick 261]

It seems then that this is one of those things that is entirely subjective, and not objectively bad.

[Azzur33 1]

I wonder if the effect is the same for everyone because Idon't notice it that much and I have PP on normal with 150% DoF

I'm starting to wonder that too. I have only a slight blur, and it happens later than the darker edges ...and heavy breathing. I really have to sprint and run like hell, to get the blur.

"as stated above, may have issues with some player's real world health."

" it affects some people's well being while playing - you want them to not be able to play Arma? "

Hmmm. Playing at nighttime with flashing lights, shooting with machine guns especially, head-bob, screen shaking, they all are risks for someone with epilepsy. Some effecs can be minimized or removed by settings. Maybe "fatigue-blur" should be too. I would keep that on, though, but I understand some would not.

So, BIS should keep these effects, but give a possibility to play without them, maybe.

[liquidpinky 11]

Being one of those who likes to carry all the gear (bring on the haters), I can say that being overloaded will cause fatigue pretty damn fast and recovering takes a while when the white encumberance bar(god knows what you need to lift to fill it BTW) is almost full.

The blur, I could live without and it would be nice to still be able to see while I am hiding behind a rock resting for a few minutes so I can hold my gun steady for a second or two.

The gun sway is detrimental enough and I am happy to pay the price for trying to be a one man army as it is only fair.

[Azzur33 1]

No blur when you are tired please. It's not realistic. Put a heavy bag on your back and sprint. I want you to tell me if you saw blurry.

You don't feel the weight and stress in your body either, playing the game.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Azzur33

[five_seven5-7 56]

Since the time I was playing SNES, games manuals had calls from attention to epileptic people to not play, it was removed from the manuals?

only to say that head bobbing it´s more real than blur effects

Edited June 24, 2013 by Five_Seven5-7

[dmarkwick 261]

No blur when you are tired please. It's not realistic. Put a heavy bag on your back and sprint. I want you to tell me if you saw blurry.

Run across the map in game all in one go, then tell me if you're out of breath in real life.

The blur is an abstraction, just an indication of tiredness.