Pistol animation is bad

[roguetrooper 2]

Can we have a pistol animation like Arma 2, just less clumsy? Only in combat/slow pace the pistol should be held with both hands. While running (both upright and bent) this looks quite rediculous.

[Droikka 1]

Can we have a pistol animation like Arma 2, just less clumsy? Only in combat/slow pace the pistol should be held with both hands. While running (both upright and bent) this looks quite rediculous.

Hi!

That's the most ergonomic way to hold a pistol for a longer duration. Also, 99% of the animations (not an exaggeration) has been motion-captured with live actors. That's how you should hold a pistol, whilst moving. It is a very realistic way.

[Alpha-Kilo 36]

Can motion capturing artists put a pistol into a holster? This may make running for a longer duration even more ergonomic than holding it with both hands.

[Droikka 1]

Can motion capturing artists put a pistol into a holster? This may make running for a longer duration even more ergonomic than holding it with both hands.

Would you like to stop every single time to holster before starting your run? Every single time you stop running you'd have to take it out of the holster? Gameplay > Minor details.

[rye1 21]

Hi!

That's the most ergonomic way to hold a pistol for a longer duration. Also, 99% of the animations (not an exaggeration) has been motion-captured with live actors. That's how you should hold a pistol, whilst moving. It is a very realistic way.

This.

ARMA 2 had it down by your sides while running, like an over-exaggerated jog. This isn't realistic or even pretty.

Currently with tactical pace the pistol is perfect, I actually really enjoy using it. From the holster is a different matter.

[roguetrooper 2]

Running while holding the pistol with two hands (or supporting one hand with another) looks just rediculous. Try to run in such a posture. Pure slapstick comedy.

[Alpha-Kilo 36]

Droikka

I understand your comment as a rhetorical question but I'll answer anyway: Yes, I would welcome the possibility to holster pistols and no, in my opinion this is not a minor detail.

Of course it is ridiculous to run for longer periods with a pistol in both hands. Make the experiment if you like. But realism is not my main concern in games. I am thinking about games which involve people with a pistol as their only weapon: pilots, medics, security people, police, civilians, etc. They would look much more believable if they could holster their weapons. ArmA models different ways of holding and carrying a rifle, a bit more variety for pistols couldn't harm.

[kklownboy 43]

Holster side arm should be a option. total fail with out it. But it is "Alpha" and we should get the holster option along with put away Bino etc...when we get a beta? If not it is total lameO.

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

Try running IRL with a pistol in your hand. If you're doing it like Arma 2 animations taught you, good luck not shooting yourself in the face.

The new animations don't look "bad", they look realistic.

Pistol running animations in Arma 2 is NOT the way to handle a firearm safely, period.

[Ghillie 10]

Yea, sprinting while holding a pistol with both hands doesn't make sense.

Jogging however is understandable.

Also thought it was kinda weird how they changed the jogging pistol animation to being held in an upwards position rather than holding the pistol at a downward more combat safe position. (seems more realistic holding a pistol down rather than shooting in the air if an accidental discharge)

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

Yea, sprinting while holding a pistol with both hands doesn't make sense.

Jogging however is understandable.

Also thought it was kinda weird how they changed the jogging pistol animation to being held in an upwards position rather than holding the pistol at a downward more combat safe position. (seems more realistic holding a pistol down rather than shooting in the air if an accidental discharge)

I've done a few excercises sprinting with a pistol. Have you ever tried sprinting with your arms down at your sides? It doesn't work for precisely the same reason the animation has the gun up high. Center of gravity, balance, And momentum. And from that position, you can still push out to your pistol combat stance, rather than swinging your gun up and then down as you try to center it with your point of aim. If you need examples, check out some competitive pistol shooting videos on YouTube.

[TSAndrey 1]

IMO Arma 2 pistol holding looks silly and bad. Please keep it this way

[smookie 11]

I've done a few excercises sprinting with a pistol. Have you ever tried sprinting with your arms down at your sides? It doesn't work for precisely the same reason the animation has the gun up high. Center of gravity, balance, And momentum. And from that position, you can still push out to your pistol combat stance, rather than swinging your gun up and then down as you try to center it with your point of aim. If you need examples, check out some competitive pistol shooting videos on YouTube.

1. I have made sprinting animation with pistol in one hand only [Future Soldier - like], will release it as seperate addon if allowed.

2. Recent design decision was to revert to sprinting with pistol aiming downwards...

[chortles 263]

Can we get any clarification on the reasoning behind the decision to return to using the "pistol aiming downwards" animation?

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

Can we get any clarification on the reasoning behind the decision to return to using the "pistol aiming downwards" animation?

Agreed. Honestly it was a well made and realistic animation. Will be sad to see it go.

[chortles 263]

1. I have made sprinting animation with pistol in one hand only [Future Soldier - like], will release it as seperate addon if allowed.

If allowed? I for one am interested in seeing this addon.

Agreed. Honestly it was a well made and realistic animation. Will be sad to see it go.

Whereas I'm asking since this is one of the seemingly few times where we get direct dev feedback on a change being intentional, and in particular "how much of the infantry aspect is intentional" (see the fatigue thread for what drama can arise when devs don't go into specifics).

EDIT: Come to think of it, any particular reason why sideways-strafing is so slow on stable build 104778 when in combat pace? By which I mean "so noticeably slower than forward movement that it's 'better' just to 'diagonal strafe'".

Edited May 23, 2013 by Chortles

[purepassion 22]

2. Recent design decision was to revert to sprinting with pistol aiming downwards...

I've done a few excercises sprinting with a pistol. Have you ever tried sprinting with your arms down at your sides? It doesn't work for precisely the same reason the animation has the gun up high. Center of gravity, balance, And momentum. And from that position, you can still push out to your pistol combat stance, rather than swinging your gun up and then down as you try to center it with your point of aim. If you need examples, check out some competitive pistol shooting videos on YouTube.

I really don't like this design decision. Having the weapon upwards is not only more realistic as TheCapulet pointed out, but also looks and feels very nice.

I hope this design decision did not originate from fear of being accused of copying BF3 which has a similar animation for pistols.

[roguetrooper 2]

Sorry, I still don't see the point in holding the pistol in front of your body while sprinting as some people insist in. For pure gameplay reasons it's surely more "efficient" to have a pistol all the time in front of you ready to fire (more or less aiming, not just pulling the trigger) instantly. But it looks stupid and unrealistic. Nobody holds one or both arms/hands in front of the body when he is sprinting (with a focus on speed, not being somehow ready to fire).

What I'm aiming at is a natural arms movement forth and back at sprinting speed (just with a pistol in one hand). E.g. (just an example for the limb movement)

Can you imagine this guy holding one or both hands in front of the body? Sure you are able to move "fast" with a pistol in front of you ready to aim and fire. But while running out of combat pace with full speed the animation should look like in this video.

[rye1 21]

Sorry but that's because you haven't looked into it. There are many methods don't get me wrong but the game cannot implement the dynamic nature of the way you run and shoot, it has to have a set animation. The set animation SHOULD NOT be arms by your side, should not be like the running with pistol animation seen in ARMA 2 because of the reasons stated above your post. To me the current animation helps with instinctive shooting and just engaging. Combat pace is not 'sprinting' it's basically a jog with weapon up and ready to be fired.

For example, if you see the way the Israeli's do it, they have the arm conventionally upright and in a fixed state then snap it in front of them. They have a unique way of unholstering the sidearm too. So, you can't say one thing is wrong or right without any reasoning. The "principles of natural running" have nothing to do with shooting on the move, that is not reasoning in a tactical environment.

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

Sorry, I still don't see the point in holding the pistol in front of your body while sprinting as some people insist in.

Read this post: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?155262-Pistol-animation-is-bad&p=2399388&viewfull=1#post2399388 If you still fail to see the point, visit youtube and watch some guys like JJ Racaza, Chris Tilly, or even better, Chris Costa. Watch how the professionals do it, and then review your own ideas with a bit of education.

For pure gameplay reasons it's surely more "efficient" to have a pistol all the time in front of you ready to fire (more or less aiming, not just pulling the trigger) instantly.

And you think the same rules don't apply to real life?

But it looks stupid and unrealistic. Nobody holds one or both arms/hands in front of the body when he is sprinting (with a focus on speed, not being somehow ready to fire).

It looks stupid because you don't know any better. It looks unrealistic for the same reasons, and because you've only ever seen it done in other games that are even more unrealistic.

What I'm aiming at is a natural arms movement forth and back at sprinting speed (just with a pistol in one hand). E.g. (just an example for the limb movement)

Can you imagine this guy holding one or both hands in front of the body? Sure you are able to move "fast" with a pistol in front of you ready to aim and fire. But while running out of combat pace with full speed the animation should look like in this video.

Natural arm movement isn't going to happen with a weapon in your hand, no matter what. If you've got a loaded gun in your hand, you're not going to be swinging it about in one hand because you value your life, and everyone else around you values theirs. When you're holding something that has the capability to end lives with the twitch of a finger, you handle it carefully. You change your habits and movements to protect it, yourself, and those around you. And you train that way. And you keep training that way until you fall back on your training in all situations, stressful or not. Because that's what professionals do.

[PN11A 2]

Sorry but that's because you haven't looked into it. There are many methods don't get me wrong but the game cannot implement the dynamic nature of the way you run and shoot, it has to have a set animation. The set animation SHOULD NOT be arms by your side, should not be like the running with pistol animation seen in ARMA 2 because of the reasons stated above your post. To me the current animation helps with instinctive shooting and just engaging. Combat pace is not 'sprinting' it's basically a jog with weapon up and ready to be fired.

For example, if you see the way the Israeli's do it, they have the arm conventionally upright and in a fixed state then snap it in front of them. They have a unique way of unholstering the sidearm too. So, you can't say one thing is wrong or right without any reasoning. The "principles of natural running" have nothing to do with shooting on the move, that is not reasoning in a tactical environment.

^this

[anthropoid 1]

Try running IRL with a pistol in your hand. If you're doing it like Arma 2 animations taught you, good luck not shooting yourself in the face.

The new animations don't look "bad", they look realistic.

Pistol running animations in Arma 2 is NOT the way to handle a firearm safely, period.

Unless they redo the ballistics for pistols in 3, I don't think there is such a thing as an "unsafe" way for a soldier in Arma to handle a pistol. It routinely takes 10 or 20 rounds to drop an enemy with a weapon like a bison sd. Hell I had it happen tonight fighting USMC. I emptied out a total of 4 64Rnd clips on four or five different guys, and it wasn't overkill and in one case they required one more kills shot.

When you can unload an entire clip into a guys face but it doesn't hurt him because he is "wearing body armor" and your shooting him with suppressed pistol ammo, in that case, its perfectly safe to run with a pistol in your mouth and the hammer cocked back :p

I say: fix pistols and submachines PERIOD. Yes, standard pisol and smg ammo is less effective against body armor, but I would imagine that AP ammo can ameliorate that a good bit. I don't have sufficient experience to know for sure, but I tend to think the way BIS has pistol damage modeled is a bit nerfed relative to reality.

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

Unless they redo the ballistics for pistols in 3, I don't think there is such a thing as an "unsafe" way for a soldier in Arma to handle a pistol. It routinely takes 10 or 20 rounds to drop an enemy with a weapon like a bison sd. Hell I had it happen tonight fighting USMC. I emptied out a total of 4 64Rnd clips on four or five different guys, and it wasn't overkill and in one case they required one more kills shot.

When you can unload an entire clip into a guys face but it doesn't hurt him because he is "wearing body armor" and your shooting him with suppressed pistol ammo, in that case, its perfectly safe to run with a pistol in your mouth and the hammer cocked back :p

I say: fix pistols and submachines PERIOD. Yes, standard pisol and smg ammo is less effective against body armor, but I would imagine that AP ammo can ameliorate that a good bit. I don't have sufficient experience to know for sure, but I tend to think the way BIS has pistol damage modeled is a bit nerfed relative to reality.

Obviously not the topic or goal of this thread. But...

You'd be surprised how long a man can live on adrenaline when pumped full of bullets. Not long ago I read a story where a city officer pulled up on a man in a car parked in a suspicious spot. When the officer approached, he seen the man accidentally spill an alcoholic beverage trying to hide it from him. When the officer addressed the issue, the man stepped out of the car, pulled a gun, and started shooting. They ended up on either side of the car shooting each other, and before it was all said and done, the perp had 38 rounds in him before he finally went down, while the officer had 12 in him that missed his vest. For most standard department firearms, that's 2 reloads (3 mags) just to bring one man hopped up on adrenaline down. And that's not even figuring inevitable misses that occured. (So likely it took many more rounds. The story was pressing the importance of having a backup gun and plenty of ammo, since said officer only had enough ammo because he was lucky enough to end up trunkside so he could retrieve more mags)

Arma's ballistics are realistic. Arma's wounding system is the problem. Should they replace it with a proper bleeding system, this wouldn't be a problem anymore.

Edited May 24, 2013 by TheCapulet

[Deadfast 43]

It routinely takes 10 or 20 rounds to drop an enemy with a weapon like a bison sd.

That sounds a bit exaggerated unless you're running some mod.

[rye1 21]

On a PVP it can take an irregular amount of rounds to put someone down, he is quite factual in stating that it can take up to around 15.