Ships in full gam?

[chaseh27 10]

Just wondering if anyone knows if there will be ships (large ones not rafts) in the full game. Has anyone seen screenshots of them or anything?

[chrisb 196]

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7269/arma320130505004459164.png:)

Thanks to 'Gnat' for that, he made the mod 'gnat_sigisolda'..

Edited May 7, 2013 by ChrisB

[chaseh27 10]

Where is that from?

---------- Post added at 07:34 ---------- Previous post was at 07:31 ----------

Oh cool, but do you know if there will be some in the full game without mods?

[chrisb 196]

As I put in the edit, its by 'gnat', there are a few various types of great ships in the mod. Now I know gnat has said on here that he doesn't mind his mods coming over from A2 to A3, if they work, so thats why I put it on for you, its an A2 mod. Look on 'armaholic' for the mod, names in the edit above..:)

Edit: your question, yes there will be some boats, but very doubtful regards ships, certainly nothing like that, probably mods for that..

[Simas 12]

A large and detailed (container) ship would be amazing.. With interior rooms and all. Imagine the missions you could do with this thing? Somali pirates, anyone? :) But I think it's just not possible as the Arma engine has relatively low poly object limits, rights? And this thing would be huge.

Or maybe it would be possible to somehow implement this ship as part of multiple objects?

[nmdanny 22]

There's an astute class submarine in one of the pictures, but it's probably nonfunctional/stationary, there might be some carrier or an amphibious assault ship like the A2 LHD, but they probably wont be functional either.

However, the Nimitz carrier and Gnat's submarines from A2 do work in arma 3. But I wouldn't expect an official controllable big ship because the game isn't focused on naval warfare very much.

[chortles 263]

But I wouldn't expect an official controllable big ship because the game isn't focused on naval warfare very much.

Pretty much, this is the aspect of warfare that the Arma games have tended to leave out even though the engines have been capable of simulating naval craft with no small level of detail; there's a VBS2 discussion paper specifically about "Maritime Simulation" as of September 2010, and a VBS2 paper from January 2012 mentioned that the Royal Navy (UK) and Royal Australian Navy had contracted some specific features, some of which were fixes of some of the limitations mentioned in the September 2010 paper -- including "Increased limits on vertex count per model, allowing larger detail objects", increased model size limits, improved AI navigating across large ships, ability for "avatars" (aka characters or units in Arma) to freely move around on moving ships, avatars now being able to move through ship interiors below the waterline and even PhysX ship simulation.

Unfortunately while the weapons and units list someone found mentions the Astute-class it's the only "big boat", everything else is small craft (the speedboats, police and rescue boats, the assault boat, a pair of fishing boats and the SDV mini-submersible, and two fishing trawlers).

Edited May 8, 2013 by Chortles

[chrisb 196]

There are a number of naval ships available in mod form for A2, some are quite functional. With the sea taking a big role in the new game, I think we may, over the next couple of years, see some ships, hopefully BIS might make a couple as standard.

Also I forgot an assortment of WW1 & WW2 ships/subs, I have on an HDD somewhere all A2 I think, couple may be earlier..

Edit: few I found in my pics, be nice to get some more of the flying kind as well, hopefully..

http://imageshack.us/a/img685/1607/arma2oa2012051502264272.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img833/7389/arma2oa2012042823260667.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img546/4140/arma2oa2012040310492717.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img802/128/arma2oa2012042823464214.png

Edited May 7, 2013 by ChrisB

[[evo] dan 79]

increased model size limits, improved AI navigating across large ships, ability for "avatars" (aka characters or units in Arma) to freely move around on moving ships, and even PhysX ship simulation.

Now this is what I want to see, even if they don't add ships in right now, and then add the ships in in a dlc or expansion (maybe add the above things in later potentially).

[Inimical_rize 1]

I can totally see a TvT of somali pirates vs navy seals boarding a transport vessel and holding it. Each team starts the same distance away, and has to approach the boat, board and hold it for a period of time, or guard the precious cargo while the other team assaults and tries to re take it. Same can be done for Oil rigs? Sounds brilliant!

[chortles 263]

I can totally see a TvT of somali pirates vs navy seals boarding a transport vessel and holding it. Each team starts the same distance away, and has to approach the boat, board and hold it for a period of time, or guard the precious cargo while the other team assaults and tries to re take it. Same can be done for Oil rigs? Sounds brilliant!

Well, there's already an oil rig for Arma 2 (a permitted port from Arma 1), but I'm not aware of any "large transport vessels" besides [APS]Gnat's Isolda Fleet.

Dan;2390254']Now this is what I want to see' date=' even if they don't add ships in right now, and then add the ships in in a dlc or expansion (maybe add the above things in later potentially).[/quote']Remember, as I said these improvements were contracted changes with the contract customers being the RN and RAN. To my knowledge only the FFAA 6.0 modders are working on a native for Arma 3 "large warship" in the Juan Carlos I (L61)*, as opposed to porting over existing warship mods from A2, and the only capabilities mentioned with regards to it are "fully functional cranes able to load and unload aircrafts, load vehicles into LCM-1E boats for desembarc". (These interior screenshots are Arma 2; while the LCM-1E Landing Craft Mechanized has been texturized, its real-life version is only 23.3 meters and is less than half -- barely over a third -- of the apparent model length limit of 60 meters in Arma 2. For contrast, RKSL Studios' Ambassador III-class missile boat is 60.6 meters -- just within the 60 meter limit for Arma 2 models -- which according to RKSL-Rock meant that "it can be a single model and wont need any funky scripting to get it working ingame" as far as Arma 2 goes.)

As such, although we have these capabilities described for VBS2 (and thus presumably in the latest VBS2 2.0 builds -- so in Real Virtuality 3, the engine behind Arma 2) we have no idea how many if any of these made it into Arma 3; "the big ships" as a later DLC or in an expansion makes sense... but "the above things later" sounds really unlikely due to how many engine changes it might need (to RV4, that is).

* Australia's adopting two ships of the Spanish design (with fabrication of the superstructure and fitting out by BAE Systems Australia) as Canberra-class LHDs.

[toiletguy 1]

I can totally see a TvT of somali pirates vs navy seals boarding a transport vessel and holding it. Each team starts the same distance away, and has to approach the boat, board and hold it for a period of time, or guard the precious cargo while the other team assaults and tries to re take it. Same can be done for Oil rigs? Sounds brilliant!

Now you mentioned it, there's a map with Oil Rigs in Take On Helicopters as well. I can see the naval warfare in that small desert-sized map now...

[[evo] dan 79]

snip

I seriously don't know why they don't even just add the capability for modders, I guess they already have everything they needs pretty much to make it work (such as PhysX). Even BF1942 had a system that worked better than A2's, and that's an oldish game. Its not a game breaker for me, but I do see I as a bit of wasted potential, especially if they do decide to put both islands on 1 map.

[trent 14]

Only a handful of patrol boats and a static Astute class submarine. However the Arma 2 nuclear submarine mods work even better in A3 due to the expanded underwater environment. Plenty of destroyer and cruiser mods too.

[ChineseFood 11]

2 battleships 1 for BLUFOR 1 for OPFOR , 5 destroyers , 3 for BLUFOR 2 for OPFOR , 1 Aircraft carrier for BLUFOR and 1 Submarine for OPFOR. also speedboats and rescue boats for civilians. 2 Oilrigs arround coast.

[babylonjoke 22]

including "Increased limits on vertex count per model, allowing larger detail objects", increased model size limits, improved AI navigating across large ships, ability for "avatars" (aka characters or units in Arma) to freely move around on moving ships, avatars now being able to move through ship interiors below the waterline and even PhysX ship simulation.

I'm praying god for that from ages!

I really would like to get a replay from the bis team on these features...

[[evo] dan 79]

I'm praying god for that from ages!

I really would like to get a replay from the bis team on these features...

+1, a yes/no answer for whether these will be in the release version of A3 would be nice.

[Colossus 2]

If they have time, it would be exhilarating to see proper LCAC units. One for BLUFOR and one for OPFOR (Zubr-class, for example). I'd imagine CTI/Warfare & co-op would be a bit different if each side started off on a LCAC or any kind of landing craft. If there's any type of units that you can see the benefits of a physics engine, it has to be transport units, like a landing craft.

[chortles 263]

Only a handful of patrol boats and a static Astute class submarine. However the Arma 2 nuclear submarine mods work even better in A3 due to the expanded underwater environment. Plenty of destroyer and cruiser mods too.

In addition to these, Arma 2 has JDog's famous USS Nimitz, Gnat's various maritime vessels (an Admiral Kuznetsov-class carrier, three frigates, three submarines, a "Fast Sea Frame" LCS and six different cargo/container ships and tankers) and more, though I imagine that you meant to cover the majority of the remainder with the "destroyer and cruiser mods".

As far as the Real Virtuality engines go, there's also the various VBS2 naval assets... seriously, people, read that maritime paper (numbered page 7, PDF page 10) to see what was achieved with VBS2 as far back as the Arma 1 engine, then read the whitepaper (numbered page 34, PDF page 39) to see what [EVO] Dan and Babylonjoke are so interested in!

I'm praying god for that from ages!

I really would like to get a replay from the bis team on these features...

Dan;2391013']+1' date=' a yes/no answer for whether these will be in the release version of A3 would be nice.[/quote']Mind you, I should point out that the "increases" were relative to and achieved in Real Virtuality 2 (aka the Arma 1 engine!)... BISim didn't say how much they actually increased per-model vertex counts and size limits to, just 'more than before'. ;)

Food for thought: That design to be used by the RAN as the Canberra-class LHD and by the Spanish Navy as Juan Carlos I (L61) that's shown in the second PDF? Here's more render screenshots thereof on the BISim Facebook page. :D And PurePassion seemed to be saying over a year ago that the left and right screenshots here are interior screenshots of it...

... but these screenshots right here are Type 45 destroyer interiors in VBS2, plus the "boatroom". (In fairness, the 2010 maritime paper and the 2012 whitepaper specifically cite the Type 45 destroyer as an example of the work that BISim has done for the UK MOD "with a focus on ship familiarization".)

Edited May 9, 2013 by Chortles

[[evo] dan 79]

Snip

I get the impression from the amphib assault video (the one on youtube for the RAN), that they even have the Canberra moving. Dyslexi could probably tell us if it moves or not as he also did a video of it. So I guess if it did move, then obviously they increased it a fair amount for both vertex and size (since I guess you can also use the hanger/landing deck since you are shown them).

[Sanguinius 1]

Just a little snip from the white paper...

Larger terrain (up to 500km x 500km)

Wow. I knew VBS2 2.0 was good, but...

[[evo] dan 79]

Just a little snip from the white paper...

Larger terrain (up to 500km x 500km)

Wow. I knew VBS2 2.0 was good, but...

Arma 2 can support that as far as I know, but it would have terrible resolution (I think it was worked out you could have a map with the same area as Russia, but the cell size would be massive). I myself made a personal 200km x 200km island in A2 and it worked fine except for some (my own fault) config errors.

[Sanguinius 1]

Indeed.

Anyhow, onto the subject of big-arse ships, it'd probably be an awesome start for any campaign mission. Can imagine troop ships, LHDs, an immobile full-size aircraft carrier, on and on and on. Certainly possible, and it is definitely wanted.And of course cargo ships.

[chortles 263]

Here's a PDF of a "Powerpoint-style presentation" for the RN promoting VBS2 (or rather, promoting VBS2-style modularity over more detailed but narrowly-focused simulations such as Nautis*) that while otherwise lacking details includes a higher-res view of the Type 45 interior cutaway.

Dan;2391387']I get the impression from the amphib assault video (the one on youtube for the RAN)' date=' that they even have the Canberra moving. Dyslexi could probably tell us if it moves or not as he also did a video of it. So I guess if it did move, then obviously they increased it a fair amount for both vertex and size (since I guess you can also use the hanger/landing deck since you are shown them).[/quote'][EVO] Dan, where are you seeing the Canberra-class LHD moving in the RAN video, are you sure that that's not simply camerawork, or the same sort of scripting previously used in Arma 2 to get things like "drive USS Khe Sanh"/"playable LHD"? I'm not seeing anything that indicates that VBS2 is that much more developed than what some Arma 2 naval modders have implemented.

For anyone wondering what we're talking about,

's the video, and

's another video.

Unrelated, but look at this... British troops participating in a VBS2 session using Xbox 360 controllers... so much for "Arma has too many buttons for consoles". ;) Heck, interestingly enough, here is a 'VBS2 mod' (mentioned here) that uses headset-mounted-three-LED tracking with what looks like a TrackIR for head tilt and body lean, a gamepad for weapon handling and foot pedals for walking (slide them to move, push them in to prone).

* This "narrow vs. broad" is what people should keep in mind when comparing Arma to, say, the DCS series or Ground Branch...

Anyhow, onto the subject of big-arse ships, it'd probably be an awesome start for any campaign mission. Can imagine troop ships, LHDs, an immobile full-size aircraft carrier, on and on and on. Certainly possible, and it is definitely wanted.And of course cargo ships.

The thing is, if that's as far as your use for "big-arse ships" would go, then is there any reason to do anything with them except as static objects and locations? As it is, the Astute-class submarine seems like it will fulfill that role in the Arma 3 single-player campaign, but I'm wondering if you merely want surface vessel versions (read: just like Arma 2 had the USS Khe Sanh) or if you're looking for any deeper simulation than that, i.e. warships as mobile combatants.

(Oddly enough, this talk of the "big-arse ships" as locations actually reminded me of the old Wizards of the Coast-published Star Wars Saga Edition roleplaying game -- specifically, its core rulebook's suggestion on abstracting space combat so that for example if you had dogfighting in proximity of a capital ship, the starfighters could be treated as the combatants while the latter could be treated as the area/location due to the sheer size disparity. :D )

[[evo] dan 79]

Here's a PDF of a "Powerpoint-style presentation" for the RN promoting VBS2 (or rather, promoting VBS2-style modularity over more detailed but narrowly-focused simulations such as Nautis*) that while otherwise lacking details includes a higher-res view of the Type 45 interior cutaway.[EVO] Dan, where are you seeing the Canberra-class LHD moving in the RAN video, are you sure that that's not simply camerawork, or the same sort of scripting previously used in Arma 2 to get things like "drive USS Khe Sanh"/"playable LHD"? I'm not seeing anything that indicates that VBS2 is that much more developed than what some Arma 2 naval modders have implemented.

I am not actually sure whether is was camera trickery or what, its hard to tell with the way the camera moves and what not, but the Collins class sub in that moves (or gives a very good impression since it dives/rises, just like the white paper said it could) so I just kind of assumed it all moved. The choppers on take off from the deck seemed to move a bit dodgy which also suggested it to me, but I cannot be certain. Only dyslexi could tell us or someone from BIA. Do you think I should PM dyslexi and see if he would be allowed to tell us if it did/did not move (or post it on the videos comments)?