Client side "Gamma" hack needs to go

[Bashka_IF 1]

Guys, vote up for this ticket.

Night missions can completely change tactics (specially without NVG), and it is amazing. Unfortunately this gamma options screws it.

"Add an option to lock gamma to "x" for the client by the server, it's necessary to don't have "gamma cheat" the night, people abusing of the gamma, and can see like a cat when all people need NVG."

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=4257

Important note:

">what is your suggestion for people who actually need the high gamma? Don't play on your server?

Who needs more bright picture can do it in monitor/windows settings and won't have unfair advantage.

"

[Dwarden 1125]

this indicates another OA>TOH>A3 merge gone wrong/missing

[93812] Fixed: Restrict gamma value set by profile

[93809] Fixed: Restrict brightness value set by profile

in Arma 2: OA 1.62 you can't use the value higher than softcoded maximum

Edited April 21, 2013 by Dwarden

[dnk 13]

Doesn't stop people from turning it up in their GPU controls or monitors.

[Dwarden 1125]

Doesn't stop people from turning it up in their GPU controls or monitors.

unrelated, this was simple engine wise soft limit ...

[Bashka_IF 1]

Doesn't stop people from turning it up in their GPU controls or monitors.

But they won't get more details in the picture. Try it yourself - make monitor brighter then make gamma bigger, compare difference.

[nodunit 397]

How about a deadzone rather than a pure lock, if someone takes away my darker gamma for richer colors then I'd be so very pissed.

[RuecanOnRails 10]

I use my gamma settings all the time. I do not leave them static (I don't abuse it to see in the dark, rather for the feel of a mission. Some missions feel much more intense if everything is darker and enemies disappear in shadows). I feel the ability to change gamma whenever is an important part of this game. Bringing the gamma down to make a more atmospheric feel, or bringing it up to brighten and even wash out colours should remain in control of the user.

There should be no hard locks on gamma settings even in mission settings. Not every monitor is configured the same, nor do they output similar contrast telling people to use their monitor or windows settings is hassle and wouldn't bring anywhere near the results that people are looking for when it comes to colour correction.

A deadzone I'd be iffy supporting, it could work but I think it would still be too limiting.

What I'd like to see is the client side settings sent to the server at which point the admin could see what everyone has set for their gamma. If they see someone tanking their gamma for an unfair advantage a message could be sent to that player. Still allowing for full use of gamma settings but giving the admin the ability see if someone is abusing it and allow them to follow up with their own discretion.

[Treehugger 1]

I hope the devs are really exploring the possibilities in making changes to the gamma adjustment functionality. Presumably, the first type of problem would be to not trust the client and the second would be to accept that some people might bother with trying to adjust gamma on their monitor anyway. I personally think the gamma slider has to go.

[kamaradski 10]

What about people that actually need to be able to adjust Gamma ??

As far as i know there is NO software way to insure everyone sees the same gamma-depth, TRUE noone will be playing this on CRT, however there is also difference in LCD/TFT panels, and other enviourment factors that needs to be taken in account here.

[dmarkwick 261]

At some stage you just have to accept that people have a "right" to have the game looking as they wish to have it. Being terrified that someone may have some sort of advantage because they've made their game display oddly will only ever lead to smaller & smaller increments of worry. How about the guy who plays at super-high resolution and has a huge monitor? Doesn't he have an "unfair advantage"? Shouldn't we also lock down possible resolution advantages?

[dnk 13]

But they won't get more details in the picture. Try it yourself - make monitor brighter then make gamma bigger, compare difference.

My monitor has a gamma adjust, as does my video card's drivers.

[Predator.v2 10]

this indicates another OA>TOH>A3 merge gone wrong/missing

[93812] Fixed: Restrict gamma value set by profile

[93809] Fixed: Restrict brightness value set by profile

in Arma 2: OA 1.62 you can't use the value higher than softcoded maximum

Does this also work with A3 somehow? Set the brightness/gamma on the server profile?

[Wolfstriked 11]

In Dayz it was needed as the rare NVG's made everyone who played on night server use the gamma cheat.But in Arma3 we are fighting advanced combat squads who will also have NVG's so its actually not really relevant.

[Treehugger 1]

DMarkwick seem to have made a hollow argument for denying a game to be designed to such a way as when having gamma adjustment options removed inside a game. His argument about screen resolution is apparently without a point.

[dmarkwick 261]

DMarkwick seem to have made a hollow argument for denying a game to be designed to such a way as when having gamma adjustment options removed inside a game. His argument about screen resolution is apparently without a point.

Oh dear :) if you fail to see the point I made, then you failed to see it :) worrying about differences between people's machines (where to change gamma, how far you can crank the resolution etc) makes me think that maybe consoles would please some people the most, seeing as they're a stable, static platform where everyone has the same starting point.

And, as has been pointed out several times - monitors and graphics cards have gamma adjustments. Removing ingame gamma seems to be a little.... pointless?

[Treehugger 1]

The argument that makes a point of denying in-game gamma adjustment as being pointless is flawed the same way anyone would argue that laws would be pointless simply because it doesn't stop crimes from happening.

I will argue that improving Wasteland gameplay by having the gamma adjustment removed can hardly be viewed as detrimental to gameplay if a few people still make use of out-of-game gamma adjustment, while on the other hand, in DayZ the consequences of a few taking advantage of using out-of-game gamma adjustment are more worry some. Perhaps if DayZ didn't have this scarcity of vehicles in game, then being cheated by otheres using out-of-game gamma adjustment would then be little to fuss about compared to how it is now.

The developers have to give a damn and try to envision how gameplay can/will play out with the darkness at night time and then make up their minds about what to think about how to relate to such problems of people ultimately cheat to overcome the inconvenience of moving around in darkness.

I think that wanting to make something like Wasteland and DayZ more competitive by basicly removing in-game gamma adjustment is a worty goal instead of sacrificing the more unique gameplay that can be had in having the players deal with moving in darkness at night with whatever means available found in game.

Edit: I think the devs should also think about making the text displayed on screen dim so that they aren't being too bright when playing at night time. With the Arma 3 alpha, they might perhaps have taken such a concen into account already (I have not played at night time with Arma 3 alpha).

Edited April 22, 2013 by Treehugger

[Bashka_IF 1]

And, as has been pointed out several times - monitors and graphics cards have gamma adjustments. Removing ingame gamma seems to be a little.... pointless?

Gamma setting changes output picture of the engine so much that at night missions make gamma 2.0 and you don't need NVG.

making monitor brighter doesn't give you night vision.

Yes, at modern combat every soldier has NVG, but there are WWII modes and games (Iron Front) on Arma engine where NVGs does not exist.

So yes, we want to restrict a freedom to have unfair advantage. Why is it bad to give freedom to set rules to servers owners, specially if even players want this ?

This is like BF3 -IRV scope was extremely OP and everyone was forced to use it. Then DICE nerfed it badly and now people can enjoy nice colorful graphics. NOBODY whines about getting IRV back !

[RuecanOnRails 10]

I still don't think there should be any type of FORCED setting.

If someone chooses to play with "cheater vision" using high gamma then let them. If someone chooses to hinder their vision at night by dropping gamma to make it more intense let them do that.

Just because one or another custom created mission\mod would benefit from having a locked gamma doesn't mean the entire game should suffer and include that. It's why I believe the client settings should be reported to the server where the admin could assess if the person is giving himself an unfair advantage. The arma series is designed around being able to play the way you want and have total freedom implementing locks would be taking a step in the wrong direction.

Give the player the benefit of the doubt to play properly and the way he chooses. Allow the admins to monitor player settings the admin could then have his own set of rules.

Locking down functionality a game with as much customization as this would be to me compared to EA's always on DRM.

I'm all about balance, but balance does not need to come in the form of forced play style.

[dmarkwick 261]

The argument that makes a point of denying in-game gamma adjustment as being pointless is flawed the same way anyone would argue that laws would be pointless simply because it doesn't stop crimes from happening.

As you're interested in pointing out pointlessness, I might say that laws don't prevent crime. If it makes you feel better - make all the laws you want, or, in the context of this thread, force an ingame gamma setting. But if someone decides to crank up their graphics card gamma - what then?

---------- Post added at 07:35 ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 ----------

Gamma setting changes output picture of the engine so much that at night missions make gamma 2.0 and you don't need NVG.

making monitor brighter doesn't give you night vision.

I didn't say brightness, I said gamma. Monitors and graphics cards have their own gamma settings you can crank up. OK maybe the monitor gamma is less useful, but the card gamma will basically do the same as game gamma right?

[twisted 127]

like to chime in here. the gamma seeing in dayz positively affected game play by increasing immersion. dark nights are dark nights and present certain tactical challenges and advantages to all players. that's pretty interesting to experience.

id be surprised that it isn't carried to

arma3 eventually.

[Bashka_IF 1]

I still don't think there should be any type of FORCED setting.

OMG.

do you want as an admin to monitor your server 24/7 ?

I don't want to wait while the admin is back from dinner and start to punish bad boys ?

c'mon, how can anyone resist to having more options in the game ?

Call this feature AUTOADMIN then, not restriction.

BTW I want to use wallhack and aimbot, why is this game forces me to find people in bushes and aim to shoot ?? )

---------- Post added at 13:12 ---------- Previous post was at 13:07 ----------

OK maybe the monitor gamma is less useful, but the card gamma will basically do the same as game gamma right?

I haven't managed to make the same effect with card (Nvidia) gamma, if you know how to do it pls tell me.

[dmarkwick 261]

OMG.

do you want as an admin to monitor your server 24/7 ?

I don't want to wait while the admin is back from dinner and start to punish bad boys ?

c'mon, how can anyone resist to having more options in the game ?

Call this feature AUTOADMIN then, not restriction.

*shrug* options are always good. I wouldn't be opposed to it, either use it or not use it. It's just that, as a server option, it seems to be fairly useless.

BTW I want to use wallhack and aimbot, why is this game forces me to find people in bushes and aim to shoot ?? )

Petulant appeals to logical extremes can be countered by their opposites:

"BTW why is ArmA3 forcing me to use my graphics card gamma setting to change gamma?"

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:18 ----------

I haven't managed to make the same effect with card (Nvidia) gamma, if you know how to do it pls tell me.

Well, gamma is gamma. If there's a difference between ingame gamma and nvidia gamma, then one of them isn't exactly gamma.

[OrLoK 20]

hello there

In any game sim where I cant handle my gamma settings in game gets several thousand minus points from me. Monitors/times of day etc etc mean I have to change my settings, I'd hate to have them locked out. If I were, I'd simply find a third party workaround.

I do understand why folk want it "fixed", but IMHO it's just not a practical solution to "lock" it.

Some folk will use gamma to their advantage and that sucks, but there's not alot we can do about it.

If we lived in an ideal universe we would all have nice big properly calibrated monitors of equal size. As has been pointed out it's "unfair" for some to have great rigs and large/multiple monitors as it gives them an advantage over those on low spec rigs or low res screens.

The playing field will never be level. Bruteforcing one aspect leads down a dark path ('scuse the pun) IMHO.

Rgds

LoK

[Bashka_IF 1]

I'd hate to have them locked out.

IMHO it's just not a practical solution to "lock" it.

And I hate when opponents see me at 300m while I can't see them at 30m.

ok, what is the practical solution ?

Remember that this option is only for particular servers, not all of them.

resolutions 1920x1200 and say 1300x... (who plays now at 1024 ???) does not differ too much as 300m and 30m view distance

[daze23 1]

As you're interested in pointing out pointlessness, I might say that laws don't prevent crime. If it makes you feel better - make all the laws you want, or, in the context of this thread, force an ingame gamma setting. But if someone decides to crank up their graphics card gamma - what then?

you do what you can. locking your car door might not prevent someone from breaking into your car, but it sure makes it more difficult

not to mention whenever I get into this issue, people say that they do it because they can. this was a convo I had just yesterday on the DayZ subreddit:

redditor-a - "Nothing's wrong with turning up your gamma or turning off post processing, because everyone else who plays the game has those options available to them as well."

me - "you're really gonna say that about turning up the gamma to see at night? why bother spawning with a flashlight? why have flares and chemlights as items? why have nvg's as a rare item? why bother having a day/night cycle?"

redditor-b - "Then remove being able to turn up brightness and gamma. In till then it is fair game."

me - "come on. you know you're not supposed to turn night into day with the graphics options. "everyone does it" is the same excuse people use for hacking, duping, combat logging, and everything I listed. it's on you to play the game right

remind me to never invite you over to play cards, because you probably got 3 aces up your sleeve. it's like playing chess with someone that moves pieces around the second you look the other way"

redditor-b - "Well sorry I'm not going to run around with a big red bullseye as everyone else uses it. It's just not going to happen."

just know that this is the attitude you're dealing with

Edited April 24, 2013 by daze23