Suppression Effect missing in ARMA3

[ShotgunSheamuS 1]

Dan;2465441']AI still need to be supressable too don't forget.

That is an absolute must without even mentioning, if AI are unable to be suppressed, then it still is futile to even attempt suppression tactics. It is equally as important for AI as it is with PvP and TvT.

[[evo] dan 79]

That is an absolute must without even mentioning, if AI are unable to be suppressed, then it still is futile to even attempt suppression tactics. It is equally as important for AI as it is with PvP and TvT.

yeah, we found it out the hard way and kinda makes lmg's pointless

[ShotgunSheamuS 1]

Dan;2465595']yeah' date=' we found it out the hard way and kinda makes lmg's pointless[/quote']

Exactly!

LMG's were designed for suppression. (I cant think of any other logical use for it's design in terms of tactics) If suppresion is not implimented, then there's no use to even have them in game. It's like having a medic role and everybody is capable of doing surgery on themselves. a total waste of a purposeful role.

[b737lvr 10]

I have yet to notice any suppression on the AI in Arma 3. I play in a Realism server and I always tell my guys that randomly shooting at AI will do nothing, the AI act like they don't know what a bullet is until it hits them.

[lordprimate 159]

Scripted mods are just as good, but generally better when these things are natively supported in vanilla game, as a standard... It is annoying to play different servers with different mods which leads to having to adapt to various things that can be confusing at times. If things like this become a standard, then gameplay would remain default, and mods would expand more on content than fixing the game. At least, thats how wish it to be.

Exactly!

LMG's were designed for suppression. (I cant think of any other logical use for it's design in terms of tactics) If suppresion is not implimented, then there's no use to even have them in game. It's like having a medic role and everybody is capable of doing surgery on themselves. a total waste of a purposeful role.

you are correct.. however, that is the BIS mantra .... "Well set the base line... the community will work for free to make the game better....."

But this is JUST MY OPINION>>>>> !!!!!!

Edited August 12, 2013 by Lordprimate

[Zorg_DK 10]

Yes, suppression of AI is close to no 1 on my wishlist too.

[ShotgunSheamuS 1]

you are correct.. however, that is the BIS mantra .... "Well set the base line... the community will work for free to make the game better....."

You know, honestly the community can only do so much, unless BI actually decide to make the engine itself open and moddable, and keep the rights to only the other content they own (which is what we pay for), then we would see higher quality mods and even community patches and features etc. In my opinion, that is setting the base line for the community, when opening the source code!

But thats a dream I guess

[purepassion 22]

tpw has created a first proof-of-concept for a engine-based suppression effect :) You can check out the release topic here

[Sheepdog 4]

Honestly, the only reason for "suppression" effect is because people use third person, in first person mode everytime I shoot at someone they are usually smart enough to hide behind cover

[ShotgunSheamuS 1]

tpw has created a first proof-of-concept for a engine-based suppression effect :) You can check out the release topic here

Okay, so when do we see this in ARMA 3? =)

[scrim 1]

Hopefully never. It is available in less realistic games like Red Orchestra, where it belongs.

[froggyluv 2136]

Hopefully never. It is available in less realistic games like Red Orchestra, where it belongs.

..as well the world's premier military training tool VBS2 :rolleyes:

[ScratcH334 10]

Hopefully never. It is available in less realistic games like Red Orchestra, where it belongs.

Less realistic? Oh, I see what you did there...

[bad benson 1733]

kids! what did we learn at school? "don't feed the troll" :D

[scrim 1]

Oh, how very constructive, intelligent and original of you Benson; Call someone who disagrees a troll, instead of putting your brain to the minimal work required to come up with a counter argument. I bet you no one's ever done that before. Kudos to you, you've won 2 Internet points, respect.

[-Coulum- 35]

Oh, how very constructive, intelligent and original of you Benson; Call someone who disagrees a troll, instead of putting your brain to the minimal work required to come up with a counter argument. I bet you no one's ever done that before. Kudos to you, you've won 2 Internet points, respect.

Judging by that post, I think you deserve some points and respect as well.:p

How do you justify the use of suppression effects in vbs ala Froggyluv's response to you

..as well the world's premier military training tool VBS2:)

[Smurf 12]

That same RO2 that has better* movement (inertia, cover, stamina, speeds) and weapon handling (recoil, sway, rest, bipods, reloading, clearence) all around, a supression system that may be a little "dramatic" but achieve with great sucess what it is suppose to do? What about it?

* = Classic Mode.

[scrim 1]

Judging by that post, I think you deserve some points and respect as well.:p

How do you justify the use of suppression effects in vbs ala Froggyluv's response to you

Yeah, except I didn't resort to ad honimen in my post, as certain others do.

And VBS2 is just what was said, a training tool. And in addition to that, the suppression effects can be toggled off.

In the end of the day, taking the fear, stress, thousands of thoughts flying through your head in a second, experience from other firefights, the amount of faith in one's current cover, and simulating that in a computer game by introducing blurred edges around the player's field of view can't become anything but arcadish.

Nor does it work out very well. The suppression effects in VBS2 for example have a large downside, which isn't that terribly well known due to how few people play it; Players can, and do get suppressed by fire from friendlies who are in their proximity when they shoot, because there's no way to like IRL differentiate between the out going fire from your buddy, and the incoming fire from your enemy. IRL your buddy standing perhaps behind you and firing over your head against the enemy wouldn't cause any fear or stress in you, but when you let a computer decide if your character is suppressed or not, your buddy trying to cover you so you can move by firing long bursts of SAW fire suppresses you more than anyone else. Would you say that's a very realistic feature to have in Arma?

[Masharra 10]

IRL your buddy standing perhaps behind you and firing over your head against the enemy wouldn't cause any fear or stress in you,

Just saying... this is false. You may continue

[froggyluv 2136]

Yeah, except I didn't resort to ad honimen in my post, as certain others do.

And VBS2 is just what was said, a training tool. And in addition to that, the suppression effects can be toggled off.

In addition to that....? You've got to be kidding me. You can't on one hand argue that the effect is worthy for, as per your insinuation, lower standard gamey games ie RO2, then on the other hand state that what would considered the gold standard Simulation for the genre -that it's also appropriate for that. Am I I taking crazy pills?....that just don't add up and cheapens your argument into the absurd.

As for the toggle -who here supporting it strongly hasn't also lobbied this point?

For the rest, we can argue to infinity over whether this effect plays out as a decent replication of the effect of suppression -but don't try to play both sides of the coin by saying it's ok for a hardcore training tool but not for a game. That's what Arma is -a game.

[-ghost-tf 12]

This thread is doomed to go in circles, there will always come a new guy to the discussion that after 54 pages still doesnt understand that the effect people are asking for would be optional.

[bad benson 1733]

and this, kids, is how you know it's a troll.

makes false statement to get more attention.

Hopefully never. It is available in less realistic games like Red Orchestra, where it belongs.

upon being discovered as a troll as in...

That same RO2 that has better* movement (inertia, cover, stamina, speeds) and weapon handling (recoil, sway, rest, bipods, reloading, clearence) all around, a supression system that may be a little "dramatic" but achieve with great sucess what it is suppose to do? What about it?

* = Classic Mode.

the troll starts hissing, gets agressivly defensive and resorts to more fake statements to cover up that he has no real point. as shown here

In addition to that....? You've got to be kidding me. You can't on one hand argue that the effect is worthy for, as per your insinuation, lower standard gamey games ie RO2, then on the other hand state that what would considered the gold standard Simulation for the genre -that it's also appropriate for that. Am I I taking crazy pills?....that just don't add up and cheapens your argument into the absurd.

As for the toggle -who here supporting it strongly hasn't also lobbied this point?

For the rest, we can argue to infinity over whether this effect plays out as a decent replication of the effect of suppression -but don't try to play both sides of the coin by saying it's ok for a hardcore training tool but not for a game. That's what Arma is -a game.

ok i hope everyone learned something today. i'll see you at our next troll awareness days.

[scrim 1]

In addition to that....? You've got to be kidding me. You can't on one hand argue that the effect is worthy for, as per your insinuation, lower standard gamey games ie RO2, then on the other hand state that what would considered the gold standard Simulation for the genre -that it's also appropriate for that. Am I I taking crazy pills?....that just don't add up and cheapens your argument into the absurd.

As for the toggle -who here supporting it strongly hasn't also lobbied this point?

For the rest, we can argue to infinity over whether this effect plays out as a decent replication of the effect of suppression -but don't try to play both sides of the coin by saying it's ok for a hardcore training tool but not for a game. That's what Arma is -a game.

Eh, "hardcore training tool"? VBS2 can be described as many things, but not "hardcore". Even compared to Arma, it's a quite basic, simple training tool. Note, a training tool, not a "gold standard Simulation" as you call it. To drag VBS2 into this and compare it on the same scales as games and sims isn't remotely reasonable, it's like comparing the colours of apples and dragging a pineapple into it.

Benson: I'm just gonna leave this here:

A person who provokes others (chiefly on the Internet) for their own personal amusement or to cause disruption.

Ghost: I posted in this thread several months before you even registered on the forums, so maybe you should cut down on being high and mighty with the whole "new guy joining the discussion"?

Edited August 18, 2013 by scrim

[HKFlash 9]

Just saying... this is false. You may continue

Not false... very false! I still remember when I shot my G3 with the end of its barrel near my buddy's head (we were ambushed, spotted the enemy and all we thought about was shooting him. I'm just glad we were using salvo ammo that day). Oh boy he was not happy...

[-Coulum- 35]

Eh, "hardcore training tool"? VBS2 can be described as many things, but not "hardcore". Even compared to Arma, it's a quite basic, simple training tool. Note, a training tool, not a "gold standard Simulation" as you call it. To drag VBS2 into this and compare it on the same scales as games and sims isn't remotely reasonable, it's like comparing the colours of apples and dragging a pineapple into it.

I don't understand. Is VBS not a simulation designed for militaries to use to train soldiers. Wouldn't it only make sense for such a simulation to have as realistic features as possible. Wouldn't that mean that there is at least some shred of realistic reasoning behind suppression effects - I mean they wouldn't just throw it in to make the game arcadey would they?

Even if we look away from VBS you will see that any game that has suppression has at least some focus, no matter how small, on realism (RO, Insurgency, BF:PR, Brothers in arms, even BF3). However if you look at games that knowingly throw realism out the window (which is totally fine) none of them have suppression effects (quake, COD, Halo, CS, and pretty much every mainstream fps). Seeing that, I find it hard to believe that people can't concede that there is at least some shred of realism to suppression effects.

However you do make a good point about the limitations of suppression effects and you would be correct to say they will never be 100% realistic - but that doesn't mean they won't make the gameplay morerealistic. The discussion a couple pages back did quite well to try and brainstorm the optimal effects.