SUGGESTION: Auto lower weapon when against walls

[Jex 1]

Can we remove this long annoying feature where my character cannot work out that when in a small space he should lower his gun. Take a look at the old but great game Vietcong if you need to but essentially if I walk up to a brick wall I should automatically pull my weapon against my chest.

[GringrBrezns 1]

Firstly there's a difference between lowering the weapon (eg not being able to fire it because you've pointed it at the ground) and drawing it in to avoid putting your muzzle through the drywall. The latter I'm all for, the former seems like it would be a nuisance in CQC as it could get really iffy when leaning or making twitch movements.

[Jex 1]

Yes the latter, right now you cannot get close to the wall anyway because you (stupidly) walk the barrel into it. Also it should be an option that people can turn off and on in case any funky things happen in cqb but at least it would be more realistic and be able to turn in small areas.

[Predator.v2 10]

1. There is an addon for this "Rifle Collision something"

2. This features simulates the advantage of short length weapons at building clears (as pistols, mps or carabines over assault rifles).

3. You could "manually" take down your weapon with double ctrl. Maybe you should reassign this control to something easier, so you can use it more often.

[Jex 1]

1. There is an addon for this "Rifle Collision something"

2. This features simulates the advantage of short length weapons at building clears (as pistols, mps or carabines over assault rifles).

3. You could "manually" take down your weapon with double ctrl. Maybe you should reassign this control to something easier, so you can use it more often.

This is something that should really be in the game, not an addon. A problem with Arma is there are so many addons to do things that should be in the game and it's irritating to have to dl, find servers that allow them, etc etc. This is something you would do in real life, arma tries to approximate RL - this is an Alpha, so why are we not asking for a change to this since now is the time to do it right?

The manual function of dropping a weapon won't work. It needs to be automatic - it's like saying you would need to tap W and E for each foot for every step you take - it's an automatic thing you don't need to think about of spend time on the keyboard with.

Keep it simple, keep it immersive, keep it realistic

[Dallas 9]

Or it's what's make ArmA so great, that it allows you to modify the game so easily.

I like that I have full control of my rifle and it doesn't lower itself automatically, when I'm busy in CQB.

[batto 17]

It was suggested some time ago: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?133004-How-to-improve-the-Close-Quarter-Combat-experience-in-Arma-3&p=2128572&viewfull=1#post2128572

tl;dr: Auto-lower only when not sighted. Else hit the wall (with some audiovisual feedback) and block rotation.

In ArmA3 I already got into situations indoors where this could help.

[Fuse 1]

I worry that it would make clearing feel clunkier, like in previous titles. In real life you're constantly making small adjustments with your waist and shoulders that you can't easily simulate in a video game. Without that fine control you'll be hitting the wall every time you turn around. I think it would be too disruptive to gameplay, at least in this engine.

[Gorbachev 1]

I've often aimed at the ground, held alt and looked where i was going. Releasing alt causes the view to snap to the rifle again and you then can aim fairly quickly if you perceive a threat.

Is this ideal? Hell no. I'd rather weapon collisions be non-existent like other titles that shall remain nameless for fear of being stoned. That would be more ideal than most any clunky gimmick. Sure you will see weapons poking through walls but I still think that is better than feeling like an awkward robot who cannot lower its own arms without some contorted fingers manipulating the keyboard.

[EDcase 87]

Auto lower would be good except when the weapon is in the 'ready' stance. ('c' key) or in sights mode.

If you are up close to an obstacle with weapon in hip mode then it will auto lower. If you then raise it to sights mode your character will have to move back a bit to allow the weapon to come up.

Side note:

I also hate getting stuck in a wall when moving along it.

[Lucasmnunesk 2]

I understand you issue, but it would be even more frustrating if you were fighting and your weapon is autolowered, and i don't like the idea of they don't having collisions too

[gliptal 25]

This works well if you're in the idea: http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=18796

Don't forget to thank the author in the thread!

Yay!

[xxbbcc 6]

Can we remove this long annoying feature where my character cannot work out that when in a small space he should lower his gun. Take a look at the old but great game Vietcong if you need to but essentially if I walk up to a brick wall I should automatically pull my weapon against my chest.

This should definitely not be in the base game. You can use the addon referenced in other posts or there's a key to lower your weapon when you need to. Alternatively, use a shorter weapon in tight spaces, not a long assault rifle.

[Smurf 12]

Look at what RO2 does => Copy that.

"ehm.. but full body bla" => Not my problem, make it work.

[2nd ranger 282]

Unless BIS are going to make some sort of weapon lowering that won't interfere and be annoying, then it should just be like using the Shack Tac collision addon for Arma 2. That is, there should be no collision for your weapon on corners. In real life you would obviously be able to move your weapon very quickly to clear a door frame or corner, and I just don't see that being implemented in a useful way. Not having collision would simulate you being able to maneuver your weapon as you please. The 'lower weapon' that is already in game is simply not an option as it is too slow and clunky.

[Jex 1]

Or it's what's make ArmA so great, that it allows you to modify the game so easily.

I like that I have full control of my rifle and it doesn't lower itself automatically, when I'm busy in CQB.

But you don't have full control. Plenty of times in "CQB" I've got stuck because I have the weapon up. For instance in arma 2 those apartments? try turning around on the stairs with either a rifle or pistol - you get stuck. In CQB you're only lowering it if you're too close to the wall meaning your barrel is poking into it - in which case it's useless to you and it takes a fraction of a second to bring it back up anyway. If you're slicing the pie, the barrel will be clear and will stay up. If you turn around in a stairwell - you will instead of having to walk backwards down it which is blatantly ridiculous. Want to side step through a door, just like soldiers do in rl you lower your rifle and snap it back up.

Mods don't make arma great, it's one of the things that does and we don't need mods for every little thing just to make the game play out more realistically. I don't want to download a ton of mods for this and that - it's ridiculous to think that people should and it poses problems when joining servers because most won't allow any other mods to be activated other than the ones they allow.

The current method just makes more work for everyone and downloading a mod just to make you move more realistically is silly when it should be standard in the game.

You're not going to start dropping your weapon all of a sudden randomly - this method means that IF you drop your weapon your gun is pointed into a wall or a tree in which case you can shoot anyway. It'll also help you determine when your weapon is free of an obstacle you're trying to shoot over, something the devs implemented with the cross hairs so they already recognised that as an issue, they just implemented it poorly. The cross hair only works unscoped, this method would be obvious to everyone where your barrel is pointed or what it's touching.

This is a much better argument for CQB and works properly. You also can get closer to an object which could save your life if you're in a situation where being able to move 2 feet forward puts you in cover, like behind a tree say. Being closer to an object means the enemy has to flank you more to see you.

---------- Post added at 14:02 ---------- Previous post was at 13:44 ----------

Auto lower would be good except when the weapon is in the 'ready' stance. ('c' key) or in sights mode.

If you are up close to an obstacle with weapon in hip mode then it will auto lower. If you then raise it to sights mode your character will have to move back a bit to allow the weapon to come up.

Side note:

I also hate getting stuck in a wall when moving along it.

I hear what you're saying but I fail to see it as valid. If your weapon gets lowered, you're pointing the barrel into a solid object which means you want your character to move closer to said object. Your weapon is useless at this point raised or lowered.

Judging by the replies I think some of you are thinking your weapon is going to be lowered when you need it, it won't. It lowers when you can't shoot anyway and the time it takes to raise your weapon is insignificant.

When you slice the pie in CQB you don't do it with your barrel pointing at the wall do you? No you point it at the space on the other side of the corner. In a narrow area? What are you going to do when the enemy walk up behind you? Fumble with your keys to lower your weapon when you would naturally do it anyway?

I cannot see an argument against this tbh. It would be a bit like saying that Arma in it's current state makes you have to tap W and E to walk. W to move your left foot forward and E to move your right. The faster you tap them, the faster you walk (lol actually this isn't a bad idea!!). Then someone says "Just make it so you hold down W ffs" and people think they'll lose control over their movement. Walk is something we don't want to think about in a video game, neither is something like lowering my weapon when in RL, it would be an automatic thing you wouldn't think about anyway.

---------- Post added at 15:00 ---------- Previous post was at 14:02 ----------

I understand you issue, but it would be even more frustrating if you were fighting and your weapon is autolowered, and i don't like the idea of they don't having collisions too

You need to think about when it would be lowered - if you're weapon is clear, you can shoot, if your weapon is pointing into a wall, you can't shoot. In the latter once your barrel touches something, you lower it. It's not going to affect your fighting at all and in fact, will give you better options and make it clearer what you can shoot over.

Also if you don't move close to an object, it's not going to lower so it's up to you how you use the feature which is done in RL all the time.

Realistic is what we're aiming for right? Keeping the status quo means people are quite happy to get stuck in confined spaces which is way more frustrating and problematic than lowering your weapon will ever be.

---------- Post added at 15:04 ---------- Previous post was at 15:00 ----------

This should definitely not be in the base game. You can use the addon referenced in other posts or there's a key to lower your weapon when you need to. Alternatively, use a shorter weapon in tight spaces, not a long assault rifle.

Ok why should it not be in the base game, read my posts above and then comment. There's not an argument I can think of not to implement it.

---------- Post added at 15:08 ---------- Previous post was at 15:04 ----------

Unless BIS are going to make some sort of weapon lowering that won't interfere and be annoying, then it should just be like using the Shack Tac collision addon for Arma 2. That is, there should be no collision for your weapon on corners. In real life you would obviously be able to move your weapon very quickly to clear a door frame or corner, and I just don't see that being implemented in a useful way. Not having collision would simulate you being able to maneuver your weapon as you please. The 'lower weapon' that is already in game is simply not an option as it is too slow and clunky.

Exactly. Having done FIBUA in the army, I can tell you that when you come to a wall, you don't walk you're weapon into it for a few obvious reasons.

Potential damage and blockage!

I've yet to see a reasonable argument against it but I'm willing to be swayed if one is offered other than "i don't think it should be implemented"

---------- Post added at 15:18 ---------- Previous post was at 15:08 ----------

Ok as an example of what I'm talking about, check out this video of Vietcong which was an excellent game and had one of the most fluid ways to fight I've ever seen allowing you to use cover.

Check it around 47 seconds, you'll see him pull his weapon up as he rounds the corner out the tunnel. He had the option to go wider btw, but he'll never get stuck in the corridor.

At the minute mark, you'll see him fighting around a corner and pulling his weapon up - as you can see it's not affecting his fighting at all.

Around the 2:30 mark he even raises it when another character gets close to him and there are numerous other times the weapon is raised, not affecting any of his CQB on bit.

I think we can conclude that there are no downsides to this other than peoples opinions and misunderstandings of how this could work.

[PFC Magician 10]

Auto-lower only when not sighted.

Agree but must be non affected sidearms.

pd:vietcong animations rulz, i play in pvp!

[Jex 1]

Agree but must be non affected sidearms.

pd:vietcong animations rulz, i play in pvp!

Surely the logical and realistic thing to do would be

Auto lower whenever you gun hits an object?

[2nd ranger 282]

Yeah but when thinking about implementing this you have to consider Arma's animation system, which is still clunky as it ever was. For example, you can't move at the same time as switching from rifle to pistol. I mention this specifically because both are animations of the upper body that shouldn't hinder your movement. You can however lower and raise your weapon while moving, but there is that weird Arma animation thing that makes it feel like you've lost control for a fraction of a second. What's needed on the animation front is perhaps simply a retraction of your weapon, pulling it a little closer to your body. But I don't know if that's possible to implement in this animation system in a way that is fluid and doesn't cost you any movement or fire control. The simplest solution is just to take away the weapon collision.

Edited March 28, 2013 by 2nd Ranger

[Deadfast 43]

Ok as an example of what I'm talking about, check out this video of Vietcong which was an excellent game and had one of the most fluid ways to fight I've ever seen allowing you to use cover.

Vietcong's system was great. If implemented correctly, I cannot think of a single negative to having it in A3 as well.

[Jex 1]

Vietcong's system was great. If implemented correctly, I cannot think of a single negative to having it in A3 as well.

Vietcong was a great game and the MP coop mode wasn't too bad either except the AI seemed to see through vegetation rather easy. I loved the sounds in that game, they were top notch and some of the maps were really nice as well for it's time. Even now it doesn't look too bad.

Ducking behind cover and then rising up to fire off a few quick bursts was great though i do remember the "frags of doom!" when the AI would spam you as well lol.

Loved the tunnels as well, they made you feel cramped and claustrophobic.

A very well done game.

---------- Post added at 16:42 ---------- Previous post was at 16:41 ----------

Yeah but when thinking about implementing this you have to consider Arma's animation system, which is still clunky as it ever was. For example, you can't move at the same time as switching from rifle to pistol. I mention this specifically because both are animations of the upper body that shouldn't hinder your movement. You can however lower and raise your weapon while moving, but there is that weird Arma animation thing that makes it feel like you've lost control for a fraction of a second. What's needed on the animation front is perhaps simply a retraction of your weapon, pulling it a little closer to your body. But I don't know if that's possible to implement in this animation system in a way that is fluid and doesn't cost you any movement or fire control. The simplest solution is just to take away the weapon collision.

Yes with the current system it may not be doable. Not sure I like the idea of clipping though but getting stuck is very frustrating.

[2nd ranger 282]

Well it doesn't clip through, at least not from the player's perspective. Even standing right up against a wall, in first person you can usually see the whole weapon but in third person you can see it clipping. I don't know if the current 'getting stuck' thing even helps with that visual.

[EDcase 87]

This works well if you're in the idea: http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=18796

Don't forget to thank the author in the thread!

Yay!

I'm testing this and so far it seems to be exactly what has been described as a good solution.

I've yet to try in proper house to house CQB

[metalcraze 290]

Norrin's addon has issues making it unusable because he uses a relaxed idle stance with the weapon lowered in one hand instead of 'low-ready' stance which simply does not exist in the game (although jogging animation has low-ready weapon). This causes some annoying issues with transitions between said idle and ready states which cause camera to tremble a bit and also not fast enough. Some thin objects also cause issues with it.

We need a BIS solution for this with proper objects being included into lowering and a proper low-ready animation.

The new VBS2 movement system BISim develops has good examples of low-ready anims.

Short version - we need this:

Edited March 28, 2013 by metalcraze

[xxbbcc 6]

Norrin's addon has issues making it unusable because he uses a relaxed idle stance with the weapon lowered in one hand instead of 'low-ready' stance which simply does not exist in the game (although jogging animation has low-ready weapon). This causes some annoying issues with transitions between said idle and ready states which cause camera to tremble a bit and also not fast enough. Some thin objects also cause issues with it.

I don't think this is related to the original issue - the lack of a low-ready state may be a tactical issue but it's not the reason for an auto-lower script. The soldier in your picture uses a long rifle, not a short CQB weapon - the depicted state wouldn't help much in a tight space. (Just to be clear: I'm not against having a low-ready state, I just don't think it's related here.)

I'm against the game controlling the fighting stance automatically because if it fails it's going to kill the player. I don't want the game to think for me - having the ability to choose a short(er) weapon or having the shortcut key to lower it when needed should be enough.