New Helicopter flight model by HTR dev

[samb 15]

It has since been dialed back around the time of the alpha release to "still planned" but DnA added that it wasn't guaranteed that Arma 3's vanilla helicopters would use a TKOH flight model even after final release.

Ok let's make things clear- Fred posted his "HTR based" modified lookup table for RotorLib a while ago. It was only a set of parameters to be used with current TOH FM, nothing more (still- that small changes improved flying experience a lot making it more HTR- like, and therefore more realistic). What we are talking about here is a full HTR threatment for Arma 3- meaning NO ROTORLIB FM, just HTR FM (check FSX to test how awesome it is).

Arma 3 is supposed to get RotorLib in the future (my guess- beta as it is going to be focused on vehicles). It means it is going to be capable of handling helicopters with RotorLib given they have RotorLib applied to them via proper config. We are unlikely to get all default helicopters wit these configs, however these can be added by us to make it happen. As much as I am excited to get a RotorLib features to play with, I'd love to get a HTR instead, as I am simply interested in a realistic FM, which is already acchieved with HTR (not to mention it's actually easier to fly, so maybe some number of people who were discouraged with TOH will come back to flying helicopters after trying HTR). Also, for example we are still waiting for Vortex Ring to be introduced to RotorLib, while all features are already implemented in HTR not to mention dozens of ready user made profiles for various helicopters (including md500).

[Planetside 1]

So why won't BI add HTR? BI? Quite obviously it would only benefit the game judging from the user poll.

[chortles 263]

And I'm just replying re: the official take from BI as far as "TKOH flight model" as people were assuming it to mean, in the form of the dev comments from Dr. Hladik and DnA that you replied to just over a month ago now... though of course it's been a month since Dr. Hladik was seemingly thinking RotorLib instead of HTR.

It's entirely possible that the OP and BI have since been talking in private which should make this thread moot, but we'll never hear about it because cue the NDAs. :lol:

So why won't BI add HTR? BI? Quite obviously it would only benefit the game judging from the user poll.

All the Steamworks announcement drama should have taught you that sometimes BI decisions aren't made based on user polls... EDIT: and ahahaha Max Power's response below me is completely correct in its sarcasm. Edited March 31, 2013 by Chortles

[max power 21]

So why won't BI add HTR? BI? Quite obviously it would only benefit the game judging from the user poll.

Wow. You mean, all of this time game companies could just write software via user poll?

[striderjg 1]

It has since been dialed back around the time of the alpha release to "still planned" but DnA added that it wasn't guaranteed that Arma 3's vanilla helicopters would use a TKOH flight model even after final release.

Hence the worrying talk:P I personally choose not to fly with the current helis unless pretty much forced to. I don't find it enjoyable but rather a task in frustration:) Still enjoy the game from the ground though but I would not be pleased;) OT for the thread though so I'll be moving along:D

[Planetside 1]

Wow. You mean, all of this time game companies could just write software via user poll?

Are you implying that opinion polls are not relevant to customer demand, if so can you prove it? You aren't even relevant either, since the question was not directed at you. TOH's flight model doesn't even rival HTR imho lol.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Planetside

[nodunit 397]

If you have a complex flight model for helicopters, you will need to have someone that can fly it, or you will not be able to have helicopters in a mission. AFAIK, the flight model in ToH is not switchable, so you don't have the choice. I do not feel it a good idea to require this. If it were switchable, fine, but not at the expense of having to have a qualified pilot.

Oh but it is, torque, wind and other effects vary upon the difficulty level or customization of difficulty in TKOH. At it's easiest state it's nearly identical to flying normal Arma save for having analogue collective being the default.

Your mention of gears and flight model on planes is true enough as well, the only difference being that TKOH exists whereas they have yet to make a focused simulation of something else. And Arma being the flagship of the show shouldn't be lacking the features of a spinoff.

Edited March 31, 2013 by NodUnit

[chortles 263]

Are you implying that opinion polls are not relevant to customer demand, if so can you prove it? You aren't even relevant either, since the question was not directed at you. TOH's flight model doesn't even rival HTR imho lol.

The point of the aforementioned anecdote re: Steamworks was that in reality, "BI and HTR" will have way more to do with: #1: whether the devs themselves want HTR, and #2: whether or not BI and this guy worked out a business arrangement, than anything to do with how much a vocal subset of Arma players may want this feature.

[max power 21]

Are you implying that opinion polls are not relevant to customer demand, if so can you prove it? You aren't even relevant either, since the question was not directed at you. TOH's flight model doesn't even rival HTR imho lol.

Are you saying that this poll is a scientific tool? "Hey kid, I've got this thing that's better. You want something that's better?" LOL

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying this poll is so poorly crafted that it is not even close to measuring customer demand. The poll itself doesn't even mention HTR. Even if TOP wanted to make a scientific poll, the forum software doesn't allow for a proper survey to be conducted.

[samb 15]

If someone answers YES it means he wants an "advanced helicopter flight model for Arma 3". If he does, he will want HTR (which itself is explained in the first post here by Fred himself).

[Two Dogs 12]

maybe this should be closed

[samb 15]

Which forum rule does this thread break?

[Rak 0]

I don't think there is anyone in this forum who wants worse flight models(current) for the helicopters. The rest are just die-hard BIS defenders or trolls.

Does BIS care though? Clearly not. They've always been more interested in better graphics and animations, not more simulation.

[max power 21]

I don't think there is anyone in this forum who wants worse flight models(current) for the helicopters.

Here's the problem, define worse.

The rest are just die-hard BIS defenders or trolls.

Or people who are genuinely not interested in helicopters. There are a few of them out there, for sure.

Does BIS care though? Clearly not. They've always been more interested in better graphics and animations, not more simulation.

Every iteration of OFP to Arma has had improvements in its helicopter flight. The fact that they're playing with the idea of making the rotorlib flight model the default model for helicopter flight in Arma 3, in spite of the difficulty they've been having with it, totally invalidates your argument. I believe it is you, sir, who is exhibiting trollish behaviour

---------- Post added at 16:35 ---------- Previous post was at 16:22 ----------

Which forum rule does this thread break?

Threads that have run their course are often closed. With BI seemingly providing an answer, if the discussion becomes circular, the thread may be closed until there is new news, if any.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Max Power

[chortles 263]

Every iteration of OFP to Arma has had improvements in its helicopter flight. The fact that they're playing with the idea of making the rotorlib flight model the default model for helicopter flight in Arma 3, in spite of the difficulty they've been having with it, totally invalidates your argument. I believe it is you, sir, who is exhibiting trollish behaviour

Doesn't this (or rather Dr. Hladik's comment) basically mean that the last we've actually heard on the helicopter flight model from BI devs themselves is basically a month old by now?

[JackSpyder 10]

If we dont get an advanced flight model, at the least I'd prefer the arma2 one to the arma3 one. I find the arma2 model to be marginally more realistic than the arma3 one and both accessible but just complex enough to need some real time to master. Now granted Its still "too easy" but I feel the arma3 one is closer to the battlefield3 model than the arma2 one. A turn for the worse in my mind.

Just my opinion of course.

[RuecanOnRails 10]

Most posts in the previous few pages of this thread are seemingly ignoring the fact that the game is in alpha with a preset development road map.

The current dev roadmap does not have aircraft and flight model improvements set for alpha build. Those changes will occur during the beta phase of development. Alpha is focused purely on Infantry (the heart and sole of Arma)

If you go onto the steam store page and watch the sneak preview trailer. Skip to 4 minutes and 10 seconds and pause the video. You will see a basic iteration of their dev roadmap. It shows 3 icons labeled and containing a possible teaser image.

First is Alpha, with an image of a soldier and the label Infantry. Second is Beta with a picture of a helicopter and the label Extended. Third "Arma 3" probably release candidate, It shows a picture of a tank and the label Combinded Arms.

While that isn't much to go on. To me, that states further development of flight models and aircrafts will not be looked at until we hit the beta phase. All resources are currently pulled into working on Infantry and map design/redesign.

Take from this what you will, but I foresee improvements being made to the flight models, just not yet. People getting angry and claiming that BIS is going to keep the current flight model is just absurd as nothing has been confirmed nor denied. Time will tell what happens, until then I suggest we all stop bitching and complaining on both sides of the argument.

[max power 21]

Doesn't this (or rather Dr. Hladik's comment) basically mean that the last we've actually heard on the helicopter flight model from BI devs themselves is basically a month old by now?

The latest we've heard would be from TOP, afaik. I'm not really on top of the news, though.

[FredAirland 14]

From the informations I have there will be a new helicopter flight model in Arma 3 and it will be based on RotorLib, also I will be helping in fixing the flight model.

I believe that in most cases this means the current alpha (or arma 2) flight model will be greatly increased and I think it will satisfy most of the users requesting a better FM.

As long as HTR goes, it is not a final no, but BIS will stick to RotorLib atm... Maybe upon realease they will support external FM dlls as other sims do and I might be able to integrate it.

At the end of the day, all looks good, at least I think...

[BelgarionNL 10]

I certainly hope some advanced helicopter/jet control will be in arma 3 final

[Bravo_Two_Zeroq 10]

Fortunately it is easy to make any improvement to the current fly model, so I stay hopefull. Although the offer of OP was in good faith, implementing quite drastic design changes is perhaps too much to hope for when the end date is already set, so hopefully the rotorlips can be adjusted (in future patches) once the full game is launched. I however do hope that the improved flight models dont just become some mod, but everyone is able to play. There is some good deal of history of the community lovingly fixing and improving the game, which only complicates the game further for beginners as they have to learn first about the community fixes before attempting to play the game. If the game is supposed to attract a large® audience, beginners should get the full package from the beginning and not having to wait for all the fixes made by the community, like a less irritating flight model being only one of them.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Bravo_Two_Zeroq

[[evo] dan 79]

hopefully they will give the fixed wing the same amount of love too.

[samb 15]

From the informations I have there will be a new helicopter flight model in Arma 3 and it will be based on RotorLib, also I will be helping in fixing the flight model.

I believe that in most cases this means the current alpha (or arma 2) flight model will be greatly increased and I think it will satisfy most of the users requesting a better FM.

As long as HTR goes, it is not a final no, but BIS will stick to RotorLib atm... Maybe upon realease they will support external FM dlls as other sims do and I might be able to integrate it.

At the end of the day, all looks good, at least I think...

I still call it a WIN!

[Scoggs 1]

Dan;2361792']hopefully they will give the fixed wing the same amount of love too.

Very much this. I have an easier time flying in DCS A-10c than I do flying the Arma 2 a-10. Like there isnt a time when I am not crashing the damn thing in arma 2. Also they need to change from KPH to Knots(on american aircraft)

[Blaf 1]

From the informations I have there will be a new helicopter flight model in Arma 3 and it will be based on RotorLib, also I will be helping in fixing the flight model.

I believe that in most cases this means the current alpha (or arma 2) flight model will be greatly increased and I think it will satisfy most of the users requesting a better FM.

As long as HTR goes, it is not a final no, but BIS will stick to RotorLib atm... Maybe upon realease they will support external FM dlls as other sims do and I might be able to integrate it.

At the end of the day, all looks good, at least I think...

Great news that you and BIS were able to make an agreement... I look forward to see the results of your cooperation.