Helicopter physics impressions - simplified

[Tonci87 163]

Take a look at this, it will blow your mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXNCZlQcvGw

[Cykyrios 10]

This helicopter is too arcadey! :P

The latest devbuild solved many issues in the flight model, created a few minor ones (speed in general is now too low, but acceleration is very good).

Autorotations are back (in a slightly unnatural way, though), which is very very good, although AA missiles usually render them useless, as they always seem to destroy the main rotor (along with just about every hitpoint of any helicopter, actually).

Agility of helicopters such as the MH-9 is also back, hooray!

[byku 13]

New update to FM is much closer to Arma 2 :). Helicopters fly more realistically now, and have more down to earth acceleration. Unfortunately now Mi-48 and Comanche have too low max speed. It's hard to fly them at over 250kmh. Still Comanche and Mi-48 could be a bit more agile(Comanche especially!). Auto-rotation has been improved! MUCH better now! Possible to land without fuel from high altitudes! Good work BIS! :) Still would like some improvements in some areas! Oh and OC-30 and AH-9 miniguns now suck a bit ;P. OC-30 minigun before(in alpha) was spot-on, now it's like laser. AH-9 before was awful... now it's also awful. Great improvement to PIP for the pilot in Comanche! :) Finally I can see something there!

Edited July 12, 2013 by Byku

[Tonci87 163]

Steps to improve this further:

make the helicopter react faster if you fully lower the collective

increase max speed but keep the current acceleration

make coaxial rotor designs more maneuverable (rudder) in comparison to aft rotor designs.

[Anachoretes 10]

But coaxial rotor design must be less maneuverable.

[Cykyrios 10]

Coaxial rotors yaw through cyclic pitch changes, and they also use a rudder to better maneuver at high speeds. This doesn't mean they can yaw faster than helicopters with a tail rotor, though, as those use the full power of that rotor to turn (even if it's smaller).

But I agree some tweaks are still needed for some helicopters, while the general flight model has been greatly improved.

I would simply like autorotations to be slightly more accurate, but having them back is already a good thing.

[Ezcoo 47]

Tested the current development build. The choppers are now much better than before in my opinion as well, thanks for that! :)

While the changes were remarkable and only good in my opinion, there are still some things that need fixing or tweaking (in my opinion):

- it seems that the collective isn't still working perfectly with joystick throttles, I still get about 20% higher descend rate by pressing Z than having my throttle control of joystick fully lowered, need to test this with different mappings before I can confirm it though

- responsiveness of controls (sensitivity, input lag) seems to be better than before but could still be better

- MH-9 and AH-9 could maybe be even a little more agile and responsive

- PO-30 Orca still tends to gain some speed in turns

Edit: I forgot to add that I agree with the suggestions that previous posters have made.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Ezcoo

[marcai 1]

- it seems that the collective isn't still working perfectly with joystick throttles, I still get about 20% higher descend rate by pressing Z than having my throttle control of joystick fully lowered, need to test this with different mappings before I can confirm it though

I think what could be an idea is an in-game throttle calibration tool, of sorts. Stick your throttle where you want the hover state to be for analogue flying. Below that is descend, above is ascend. No idea if that's actually possible, but it'd probably help sort this issue, and the fact that my joystick's analogue hover position is somewhere silly like 35% rather than the ideal 50%.

[Anachoretes 10]

- PO-30 Orca still tends to gain some speed in turns

Agreed. Poor visibility from the cockpit makes managing them more "interesting".

[KeyCat 131]

I think what could be an idea is an in-game throttle calibration tool, of sorts. Stick your throttle where you want the hover state to be for analogue flying. Below that is descend, above is ascend. No idea if that's actually possible, but it'd probably help sort this issue, and the fact that my joystick's analogue hover position is somewhere silly like 35% rather than the ideal 50%.

An analog collective should not function like a binary switch! The whole point using analog axes is to get a linear responce from 0-100% with the resolution of 8-16 bits (depending on joystick hardware).

That said the analog collective have always been wierd in A1/A2 and behaves more like a binary switch than a smooth linear curve from 0-100% and requires some "curve tweaking" to be usefull but I'm sure BIS learned a lot when making ToH and hope they will get it right in A3.

/KC

Edited July 14, 2013 by KeyCat

[blackjacktom 10]

An analog collective should not function like a binary switch! The whole point using analog axes is to get a linear responce from 0-100% with the resolution of 8-16 bits (depending on joystick hardware).

That said the analog collective have always been wierd in A1/A2 and behaves more like a binary switch than a smooth linear curve from 0-100% and requires some "curve tweaking" to be usefull but I'm sure BIS learned a lot when making ToH and hope they will get it right in A3.

/KC

Both the collective controls are analogue, the one that is labeled analogue just seems to not be centered on 0 movement up or down with 0 input resulting in a value close to the minimum.

[Ezcoo 47]

Both the collective controls are analogue, the one that is labeled analogue just seems to not be centered on 0 movement up or down with 0 input resulting in a value close to the minimum.

The regular collective mapping isn't analogue for me... I can change the position of my throttle control a little without any change in lift of chopper in the game.

[marcai 1]

An analog collective should not function like a binary switch!C

A 'binary switch' isn't what I really want. I'd just like for it to make sense as to where the hover point is in the throttle gain. With the 'hover' point stationed at 50% and collective above that gradually increasing collective, wheras below that is reducing collective. Setting it so that the maximum and minimum collective are always at the top/bottom of the throttle means that players could map where they want their centre point to be for personal taste whilst not giving anyone extra functionality over one another, if I'm making this clear enough.

I personally have a throttle lock thing in the middle of my joystick, and it'd be nice for me personally if that could be my standard 'hover' position.

[blackjacktom 10]

The regular collective mapping isn't analogue for me... I can change the position of my throttle control a little without any change in lift of chopper in the game.

I haven't tried it with a joystick throttle but it works with my controller fine.

[marcai 1]

The non-analogue mode works beautifully for steady flying with a joystick as it has the hover-point (I'm sure there's a technical term for it, sorry for any enthusiasts cringing at me saying it) is exactly at 50% throttle. At that point, the helo stays at the exact height you stoped it at. The issue is that this method isn't as responsive as the analogue method and instead seems to incrementally increase your height at a set pace, which means quickly popping up to 'hop' an obstacle like a tree is far harder, as it won't react to your throttle being at 100% as swiftly as Analogue will. If the responsiveness on analogue was paired with the sensible 50% throttle meant a steady hover akin to that of manual input, I'd be a happy chap.

[byku 13]

The biggest topic about helicopter physics has been "resolved" and there was a proposition to create different feedbacks for different helicopters. I've created a report about mi-48, and how it should fly comparing to Comanche. I invite you to discussion:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=11613 . I'm open to all suggestions:).

[Cykyrios 10]

I may also create a second ticket about the general helicopter physics, as I believe the latest tweaks still aren't quite there, although the improvement is already great.

But, for instance, bleeding speed is now a bit exaggerated, and allows for A/MH-9s to stop within 50 meters at full speed (about 150 km/h - top speeds are another topic I'd like to bring back).

[Tiger1Actual 10]

I hope they add vortex ring state and auto rotation maybe universal wind that effects the water,ballistics and helicopters then make it so you can use the trim would be cool. it would be great if things like the tail could be blasted off the choppers and systems could be damaged like the cameras, radar, lights, weapons, landing gear hydraulics and various other systems. Also G force limits would be great, for example the KA 50 i think can only handle 3.5 Gs before the rotors collide so if this is added there will be no more impossible maneuvers. the capability to lift vehicles and supply crates would be very nice to have. In addition to all this a VAR gauge and G meter would have to be added to the HUD so one dose not slam their heli in to the ground are rip the blades off their chopper with out a way to know their about to do it. I Hope this is helpful and i can't wait to see the finished game.

[max power 21]

The non-analogue mode works beautifully for steady flying with a joystick as it has the hover-point (I'm sure there's a technical term for it, sorry for any enthusiasts cringing at me saying it) is exactly at 50% throttle. At that point, the helo stays at the exact height you stoped it at. The issue is that this method isn't as responsive as the analogue method and instead seems to incrementally increase your height at a set pace, which means quickly popping up to 'hop' an obstacle like a tree is far harder, as it won't react to your throttle being at 100% as swiftly as Analogue will. If the responsiveness on analogue was paired with the sensible 50% throttle meant a steady hover akin to that of manual input, I'd be a happy chap.

The non-analogue throttle is not like a throttle control at all, it is like an up / maintain / down control. It's like giving a command to the aircraft and letting the aircraft (or pilot avatar) sort itself out.

[marcai 1]

The non-analogue throttle is not like a throttle control at all, it is like an up / maintain / down control. It's like giving a command to the aircraft and letting the aircraft (or pilot avatar) sort itself out.

Aye, I knew that, hence the less responsiveness when throwing the throttle up or down. As I said, the thing I like is having an easy-to-find hover function, whereas lately on my analogue stick I'm just guessing where it is due to it being somewhere near the bottom. 50% just seems to make sense.

[Phayes 10]

I think overall, it is MUCH easier to fly a helicopter with an xbox controller. It takes much of the hassle of the control sensitivity away. ;)

[max power 21]

Aye, I knew that, hence the less responsiveness when throwing the throttle up or down. As I said, the thing I like is having an easy-to-find hover function, whereas lately on my analogue stick I'm just guessing where it is due to it being somewhere near the bottom. 50% just seems to make sense.

What's enough cyclic to maintain a stable altitude actually changes depending on your airspeed, which might be why you have trouble finding it.

[fraczek 4]

Any new impressions after the july 30 and later DEV branch heli changes? I haven't played at all during the summer (preferring outdoors :D)

Revamped flight model of AH-99 Blackfoot to cut the slack

Helicopters: Roll inputs between keyboard and Joystick are halved

plus perhaps others...

[KeyCat 131]

I mainly fly the Littlebird and I'm still hoping for ToH FM someday but the LB have come a long way since the Alpha and feels quite nice. Only thing I still have issues with is the behavior of the analog collective, it's very sensitive around the center position and not very linear at all.

/KC

Edited August 18, 2013 by KeyCat

[Minoza 11]

Rudder feels very unresponsive for me on LBs, (stable branch), was great before last stable update.