Helicopter physics impressions - simplified

[max power 21]

The AI would use some other flight model.

[LeeManatee 4]

Arma 3 is based on TOH engine. AI have no problems with flying in TOH. physx have nothing to do with flight model at all.

TOH flight model was already implemented and shown on gamescon.

[BelgarionNL 10]

yes I think the TOH flight control should be one of the first things they need to add since its one of the biggest features of arma 3! realistic air units! in multiplayer they are just to overpowered at the moment!

[LeeManatee 4]

you can do roll in TOH on expert flight settings. the only difference is ammount of skill required to pull all kinda of aerobatics. + overall TOH fm feels very sesponsible and feels like flying. the only downside is rudder controls on medium helicopters, shaking a bit too much if not carefull, but light and heavy helicopters feel very solid.

[nimrod123 11]

Arma 3 is based on TOH engine. AI have no problems with flying in TOH. physx have nothing to do with flight model at all.

TOH flight model was already implemented and shown on gamescon.

the AI in TOH dosn't use that FM, and thats been confirmed by a dev

that main ones are:

confirmation; http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?146949-TOH-flight-model-if-when-how&p=2305528&viewfull=1#post2305528

discalimar on work required no matter what; http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?146949-TOH-flight-model-if-when-how&p=2305558&viewfull=1#post2305558

the actors for ARMA3; http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?146949-TOH-flight-model-if-when-how&p=2305626&viewfull=1#post2305626

[x3kj 1247]

I was able to 'pull' on the horizontal at high speed 250 knots without the speed dropping going around in a circle, it flys more like a small jet than a chopper! Also the rudders are barely effective enough to be of any use. Trying to target those cars was pretty hard all I could do was go one strafes (much like a plane) the rudders where useless at anything above a hover. Does not feel like a chopper based on any other game I've played

Sounds exactly like in Arma 2 ;) Especially the Mi-24 behaves like that (if you read the wiki entry, the mechanics fit the description).

[LeeManatee 4]

3 classes and 3 flight models for all helicopters is not too hard to implement

[EpidemicVII 1]

I have the hardest time landing.

[nimrod123 11]

3 classes and 3 flight models for all helicopters is not too hard to implement

read this

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?146949-TOH-flight-model-if-when-how&p=2305558&viewfull=1#post2305558

TLDR is that one heli with only TOH takes ~ a month with the use of a physicist to do the calcs. if thats not hard to impliment i would love to see what you think is hard (and thats with a working engine)

[LeeManatee 4]

there is no need in physX for TOH helicopters. even on collision.

[nimrod123 11]

there is no need in physX for TOH helicopters. even on collision.

and the dev from TOH says otherwise, i wonder who to believe

[LeeManatee 4]

TOH have no physX implemented and it works just fine. why to overcomplicate things is we can just import TOH helicopters. arma 3 is based on TOH engine afterall. leave physX for interaction with objects on ground. you can taxi stuff there too WITHOUT PHYSX

[mantoe 1]

I was playing around with the helos in the open map editor. While trying to hover as close to the water as possible, I dipped into it ever so slightly (just the landing skids) as I accelerated to lift off my vision went completely blurry. It was the effect when you go underwater with no goggles, but as I stated earlier the chopper only dipped the tiniest bit into the water.

I went out into the profile editor and added diving goggles to my character then back into a helo to try again. Same results except the effect on the view was the same as when you wear goggles under water.

This seems to be an unintended effect and I'd like to bring it to the devs' attention.

I'd like to add that the effect turned off when I touched down on the ground. This was rather difficult the first time considering my view was almost completely black.

[frag85 10]

I think it would best suite the game it you have an option of "Classic" (Pre-A3) and "Realism" (ToH) flight models. I think the ToH model is a step towards realism but for the sake of the community where everyone doesn't have HOTAS/pedals and/or skill and just want to fly a helo just to fly, a simplified flight model is needed. The group I play with would greatly benefit by a simplified (A1/A2) flight model over the more complex ToH model. We are not all flight simmers and troops still need to be transported by helo.

[surfer 42]

There's one big improvement vs controlling the Arma2 helicopters: It doesn't have this "shoulder" anymore. Hard to describe: On Arma2 the transition between a sustained turn and a tight turn was blocked in an artificial way. I always hated that. This seems much more fluid and real now and I hope the devs don't change it back.

On the other topics of energy loss and stalling out I agree it could use some more realism.

[nimrod123 11]

I was playing around with the helos in the open map editor. While trying to hover as close to the water as possible, I dipped into it ever so slightly (just the landing skids) as I accelerated to lift off my vision went completely blurry. It was the effect when you go underwater with no goggles, but as I stated earlier the chopper only dipped the tiniest bit into the water.

I went out into the profile editor and added diving goggles to my character then back into a helo to try again. Same results except the effect on the view was the same as when you wear goggles under water.

This seems to be an unintended effect and I'd like to bring it to the devs' attention.

I'd like to add that the effect turned off when I touched down on the ground. This was rather difficult the first time considering my view was almost completely black.

if you want a new feature put it into the feedback tracker in my sig, and try and if its supported it will rise into the devs attention

otherwise you have to pray that a dev's trolling the forum and likes it enough to submit a ticket for themselves

[odyseus 19]

Does anybody know if they are going go use any of the TOH engine on arma 3? I mean are there plan to do it for sure or just speculations?

Edited March 11, 2013 by Odyseus

[nimrod123 11]

Does anybody know if they are going go use any of the TOH engine on arma 3? I mean are there plan to do it for sure or just speculations?

the AI in TOH dosn't use that FM, and thats been confirmed by a dev

that main ones are:

confirmation; http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?146949-TOH-flight-model-if-when-how&p=2305528&viewfull=1#post2305528

discalimar on work required no matter what; http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?146949-TOH-flight-model-if-when-how&p=2305558&viewfull=1#post2305558

the actors for ARMA3; http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?146949-TOH-flight-model-if-when-how&p=2305626&viewfull=1#post2305626

read the above

[Henry Rollins 10]

I noticed the new physics as well. Made a quick video of it showing off loops and barrel rolls:

I only fly r-22's and 44's but I am pretty sure you would crater doing this in any helicopter. Blade slapping, immediate over G and severe loss of altitude.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Henry Rollins

[nodunit 397]

That has a lot of dependance on many variable, (engine strength, articulated rotors, power to weight,etc ) for a great example of how acrobatic a military helicopter can be you can always refer to the "Solo Display Team"

loops, rolls this list gives more details www.apachedemoteam.nl/pages/the-show.php

Yes helo's can be capable of rolls, generally best when they aren't right below one another and thus risk chopping into each other...but it is still a HUGE repair cost as that stresses the blades and frame a great deal, something you don't really have to worry currently. Though I do wish the little birds rotors did not appear as though it were stuck in a perpetual vortex ring state.

[EuroSlave 1]

Placed a little bird in the editor, flew around for a bit. Decided to see how low I could go...

Hit a hill at 183kph, heli jumped up in the air and the rotor flew off...heli was gliding in the air for 10 seconds before slowly landing perfectly. It didn't blow up and I was fine.

Physics are fucked I hope they fix them by final release

[joebopie 1]

reading this I cant believe any of you have actually played arma 2, ive been playing arma 1 arma 2 and ofp, for many years. for me it feels much better and is far more realistic than the restricted easy to fly arma 2. I have got many days of flying done in the old games and arma 3 is better, much better.

remember this Is a battlefield simulator, not a flying simulator, that's what TOH is for.

no doubt the collision physics need tweaking.

[Sundowner 11]

I only fly r-22's and 44's but I am pretty sure you would crater doing this in any helicopter. Blade slapping, immediate over G and severe loss of altitude.

You may want to check out this video:

But don't try to do that in your Robbie though.

[purepassion 22]

I absolutely agree that the damage modell is working far from correct! Super heavy crashlandings have little to no effect and you can even mow down lightpoles with the rotors. The potential like the component driven damage model and excellent groundwork from TOH is certainly there but the current values need to be tweaked.

The flightmodel used to be very unrealistic, twitchy and too agile but after a certain beta patch, it was actually very fun to fly and the helicopters had a more weighty feeling to them :)

I am looking forward to a proper implementation of the TOH dynamics as soon as the workflow allows it. Helicopters are indeed a "project awesome" :cool:

[Rickenbacker 1]

I absolutely agree that the damage modell is working far from correct! Super heavy crashlandings have little to no effect and you can even mow down lightpoles with the rotors. The potential like the component driven damage model and excellent groundwork from TOH is certainly there but the current values need to be tweaked.

The flightmodel used to be very unrealistic, twitchy and too agile but after a certain beta patch, it was actually very fun to fly and the helicopters had a more weighty feeling to them :)

I am looking forward to a proper implementation of the TOH dynamics as soon as the workflow allows it. Helicopters are indeed a "project awesome" :cool:

Well, you CAN chop down ONE lamppost with a helicopter rotor. Can't necessarily use the helicopter again, though :).

I agree that the flight model needs some attention, the TOH model is much closer to a real helicopter, though of course still not perfect.

The one thing that stands out for me, though, is when flying with a mouse: I have to keep pushing it forwards to stay in forward flight! Would'nt this cause the stick to hit the forward stop pretty rapidly? Why does the game keep pulling my stick backwards for me? Can I make it stop?