ARMA 3 - still unrealistic optics

[4 IN 1 0]

The list of problem goes on and on and on, but one thing always makes me wonder is what would it take to have a proper holo/red dot sight, people here always said that its not big deal......well it is a big deal, in fact I think a lots of misses when using these scope is cause by that exact scope, it only works when picking pot shot while standing still or being very very close on the target, in fact I'd rather running an iron instead of those scope.

[Creeper 1]

Have you shot a rifle with a magnified scope? I can say that it is perfectly possible to shoot and with both of your eyes open.

Yeah, maybe the shooting range on a peaceful day in your neighborhood with a 4x or less magnification. You would have to hold the rifle in the perfect location constantly as you move to maintain a picture like the suggested screenshot while in combat under fire. You would also be dealing with a MUCH smaller area of magnification, the scope view would not be that large with your head back scanning and viewing the scope with both eyes open.

This is entirely unrealistic, no matter how you try to describe it.

[chortles 263]

Uh, I don't think the parabola is going to become obsolete. ArmA's guns fire currently available ammunition, from what we've seen.

From what I can tell the main calibers would be 9 x 19 mm (SMGs and the "Glock-looking" pistol) and 6.5 x 38, which suggests that it's the 6.5mm Grendel renamed.

[lightspeed_aust 681]

@ Chortles

Why not do a poll on the preferred optics options to see what the majority prefer. You seem to have a good grasp of what the choices look like.

[chortles 263]

Not my thread, I was just responding to maturin's remark on Arma 3 small arms ammo; I was thinking "6.5mm Grendel" back when the caliber in-game was revealed for the "MX 6.5mm" and for the "Mk200 6.5mm" while the so-far only pistol seen, the "PO7 9mm", looks like a renamed Glock.

[Janat 10]

Yeah, maybe the shooting range on a peaceful day in your neighborhood with a 4x or less magnification. You would have to hold the rifle in the perfect location constantly as you move to maintain a picture like the suggested screenshot while in combat under fire. You would also be dealing with a MUCH smaller area of magnification, the scope view would not be that large with your head back scanning and viewing the scope with both eyes open.

This is entirely unrealistic, no matter how you try to describe it.

Of course you can't effectively scan your surroundings while you are aiming with a magnified scope, even if you keep both your eyes open. However, you still have that peripheral vision, and may notice movement outside your scope area. I wasn't really talking about whether the kind of 3D scope that they have in RO2 is realistic, merely stating that some kind of implementation of it would be (extremely blurred, with those peripheral view dots when there is movement in the left side of the screen (or in the side of whichever eye is not looking at the scope)).

Edited March 2, 2013 by Janat

[-Coulum- 35]

Okay this is probbably only wishful thinking, but in this image I can't see the"painted" red-dot on the upper sight like in normal arma. Could this mean proper parralax? Usually in arma from this angle you would be able to see that ugly thing no? Or maybe the sight is simply turned off.

You would have to hold the rifle in the perfect location constantly as you move to maintain a picture like the suggested screenshot while in combat under fire. You would also be dealing with a MUCH smaller area of magnification, the scope view would not be that large with your head back scanning and viewing the scope with both eyes open.

I agree with this, especially the part about maintaining the sight picture. I think it would be good to make it so that when moving, suddenly jarring the weapon or initially bringing up the sights you would lose the sight picture temporarily, and the time it takes to regain it is dependent on the magnification and the fatigue of the player. Sway should also result in slight sight picture loss dependent on the intensity of sway and the magnification.

However, you still have that peripheral vision, and may notice movement outside your scope area. I wasn't really talking about whether the kind of 3D scope that they have in RO2 is realistic, merely stating that some kind of implementation of it would be (extremely blurred, with those peripheral view dots when there is movement in the left side of the screen (or in the side of whichever eye is not looking at the scope)).

Yes indeed. And remember, in real life you can easily close the eye that is looking through the scope and get a quick look at your surroundings. With real rtt 3d scope you can also do this. Although they don't show exactly what you would see while shooting, I don't think real 3d scopes give you that much of an unrealistic advantage especially if outside the scope was slightly blurred and simulation of maintaining the sight picture was added in.

[johncage 30]

arma 2 already has parallax no?

but that picture is interesting. is there a need for a functionality to turn sight picture on and off? to me that's unlikely, so the other explantion...parallax?

[roberthammer 582]

arma 2 already has parallax no?

but that picture is interesting. is there a need for a functionality to turn sight picture on and off? to me that's unlikely, so the other explantion...parallax?

Well yes but only for aircraft with HUD but not for weapons

and this is what he meant >

[-Coulum- 35]

Yeah that's^^ what I mean. And it sure looke promising...

I can't help but notice the lack of a painted on red dot in this shot: http://i.imgur.com/IFmgzqrh.jpg

Or am I seeing things?

Wait for it, Vespa did some amazing work on those:icon_evil:

[KenLee318 1]

Hogthar might make some Design Master scopes for ArmA 3 if they don't have it.

(The 3D ACOGs are truly awesome!:cool: Made my missions feel real, also the M4 variants are so diversified and flexible I don't need any other addons to find one suitable)

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3476/screenshot2012031622534.png (1265 kB)

btw GJ again on that Hogthar!

[DShKM 18]

A modder has done ScopeFX for ArmA 2. It's not exactly what you're looking for when you say "Realistic optics" but it's better than nothing. It's definitely a shame that as a sim, ArmA doesn't have this feature yet, but with the new modding possibilities of the RV4 engine, I'm something can be done about that.

[Harzach 2517]

It's official, collimated optics are correctly modeled:

G8vrbzNYEwM

Link to relevant portion:

[-Coulum- 35]

Yep, and they they look fucking awesome as well. It going to really help holo sights have a big advantage over irons just like in reality. Unfortunately the magnified scopes are still the same, though I do like the new sway.

[SaBrE_UK 0]

It all looks fantastic! Well, bar the scopes which are adequate but I imagine some admirable modder taking advantage of the way the holographic sights work to build that into a scope view. Think it could work!

[lightspeed_aust 681]

I want to bring this thread back up because I was thinkin about the Picture in Picture (PIP) view in Arma3.

Would it be possible to create such a view inside the scope when zoomed which would effectively take a picture of the view ahead approximate zoomed distance closer which would me grass and clutter would still be visible in scope. So you get the zoom and you also get the grass!

I noticed the addon the other day which enabled you to see the view that your fellow players were seeing through their eyes - so things are possible just well beyond my abilities.

---------- Post added at 11:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------

Yes well I could live with it, but I see where you're coming from. However I would much rather have a "fake 3d scope" by having not only inside the scope zoomed, but also outside.Not exactly realistic, but if outside the scope is blurred it will not allow for unrealistic advantages. Plus, it wouldn't require the resources that RTT does - ideally this could be used instead towards increasing draw distance of grass and shadows while zooming. End result would look something like this at 200 metres. I would be pretty happy to play with that any day.

RTT scopes would look something like this at 200 metres in the exact same situation. While it does look neat and very authentic, it still does nothing to really address the problems with magnified weapons - they are far to easy to acquire targets with.

Not sure if those distant shadow will actually cover up objects though. My understanding was that their solutions to long range shadows was to simply draw them onto the map - so they don't actually project, but they appear to be on the ground. Maybe they found away to cover up units with these "map" shadows as well though...

Compare this:

http://imageshack.us/a/img35/5969/armartt.png

with this:

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8456/tothis.png

I have to say I prefer the latter quite a bit more. Its releativel attractive and it adds gameplay value. Note they are exactly the same situation, and position just the first is using rtt kind of scope and the second uses a "fake 3d" scope but with increased draw range for shadows and foilage. Does everyone disagree with me?

would PIP view allow us to create the picture above?

[bigpickle 0]

Isnt the current sniper scope reticle just using alpha? So the outside of the sight picture is see through?

[EDcase 87]

Isnt the current sniper scope reticle just using alpha? So the outside of the sight picture is see through?

Yes it is.

Would be good to blur the background outside the optic tunnel

The problem with RTT is that its an fps killer and always will be.

[ENlGMA 10]

Ye the current sniper scope looks so meh ...

[zooloo75 834]

If anyone has used the user texture object in the editor and assigned a render to texture on it, they've seen the power of it :)

So someone can make a small circle the size of the scope and assign a render to texture on it in order to have a zoomed in effect.

[instagoat 133]

Hurp.

And people who know me will know how I managed to do this.

FPS was 1 at this point, btw. PIP scopes are a no go.

I would even be satisfied if they managed animated scope overlays, but PIP is just a bit too much, and even the current scopes are okay as long as they are nicely implemented.

[bluedrake42 10]

don't look a gift horse in the mouth

while I totally think the PIP scopes look awesome

the new sniper scopes are good enough, I'll settle for that

anything is better than the black abyss we have now for scopes

---------- Post added at 10:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 AM ----------

also instagoat could I please have whatever mod you made for that scope?

I just want to test it out myself

[metalcraze 290]

FPS was 1 at this point, btw. PIP scopes are a no go.

And it's impossible to see range markings on the scope at all. Or anything else through it really

[zooloo75 834]

And it's impossible to see range markings on the scope at all. Or anything else through it really

You could use cutRsc or titleRsc to replicate the markings when aiming down sights.

[MasterDon 10]

The Arma 3 Beta livestream showed new 3D Optics. What a coincidence :cool: