ARMA 3 - still unrealistic optics

[-Coulum- 35]

I only speak for myself of course but I believe optics in Arma 3 should be fit for purpose.

To me this means they must accurately represent what you would see through the scope.

To this end, I would say that rendering grass and terrain at distance when looking through the scope is of paramount importance in game terms. At the moment, it is a turkey shoot when using a scope and the majority of compelling gameplay I have experienced in Arma 2 is when I am using ironsights/kobra/aimpoint etc.

If they can put eyecandy on top, then Yeah! But if not, then nevermind, I'm enjoying the game.

Amen

To me, what is in the scope is far more important than what is outside the scope.

My "dream" for arma 3 is to get firefights to play out as realistically as possible. To do this the effectiveness of weapons in these firefights must be realistic.

Right now Magnified optics are do not have a realistic effect on a fight - they are far too effective due to ease of spotting with them.

More draw distance of clutter/shadows will help tone down this effectiveness.

RTT scopes will only make it worse.

Thus I would rather grass/shadow draw be increased before any form of RTT is implemented.

Of course if there is room for both I would love to see both (honestly I don't think there is even room for one) - but IMO realism within the scope far out trumps realism outside the scope at this point so if resources were limited... well you know what I would prefer

One beeing the already known terrain view distance and the other beeing object draw distance. If we do get in fact this two sliders to play with, there is maybe a decent shot that we get to see some grass through optics.

BIS never actually said we would get 2 kind of sliders (from what I can remember), but it was certainly said they had x viewing distance and y object draw distance.

I am really hoping there is slider for view, shadow, object and clutter distance. I doubt BIS will make shadow/clutter draws multiplied by the magnification you are viewing at, like previously suggested, but if we had the ability to change clutter/shadow distance via slider/scripting command it should be pretty easy to mod in.

I got my fingers crossed!

Heres pics for those interested - All are in the exact same situation

now

Real RTT scope

2d scope + multiplied draw distance

Fake 3d scope + multiplied draw distance

Honestly the increased draw distance scopes not only make it harder to spot, but also graphically look very nice - maybe even better than the RTT...

[DeclaredEvol 10]

3d Scopes can be an Option in the Settings, it's as important as the Floating Range of the Player's arms. Some people get sick when looking into a 2d scope, some people feel weird with 3d. I never felt comfortable with scopes in ArmA 2, and because CQB was not Bohemia Interactive's interest I knew that the entire premise of playing sometimes is difficult. The 2d scope screen can be hard to deal with in close quarters, having to put your screen into a large space consuming scope to shoot someone right in front of you can be almost sickening. ArmA 2 originally did not have secondary optics on scopes at first, so to improve the quality of your scopes you should certainly add a feature to use it in 3d. You may have to go through 2 drawn out instances of your scope screen flinging upward and downward before you ever aim, it's completely time consuming in stressful situations. That and using a 2d scope is like being in a tank and aiming at something only a few yards away. 3d Scopes are CLEAN and Organized, and because this new release is strongly upgraded. I'm sure the Dev's wouldn't need to wait out another release of good features like this :|

It's a bit ridicules, and annoying... this needs to be solved before ArmA 3 comes out. This hasn't been done in ANY of their releases, it needs to now.

Edited February 16, 2013 by DeclaredEvol

[-Coulum- 35]

It's a bit ridicules, and annoying... this needs to be solved before ArmA 3 comes out. This hasn't been done in ANY of their releases, it needs to now.

But besides red orchestra, no other major game has real 3d sights, and they all work fine... I don't think it is a necessity by any means.

And do you disagree that magnified optics are overpowered compared to reality? Athough it looks ugly, I am not all that unhappy with the limited vision of magnified optics because it presents a negative for these weapons. And even then its only a small con, because there is only a very small distance that is too close to use the optics but too far to shoot "from the hip". And most times, when you are going into close quarters you should prepare by switching to the "over the scope view". 3d scopes would be nice to have, but I disagree that "this needs to be solved before ArmA 3 comes out" and I strongly believe there are more important things to eat up fps/time with.

Anyhow, veering away from magnification, what do you guys think of this:

You'll notice the optics are slightly more transparent allowing for more situational awareness and easier handling, especially in CQB. It would make the effectiveness of these optics much more realistic. I wouldn't complain if it were implemented - what about everyone else.

[Minoza 11]

Nah, I don't like it. It might be "realistic", but it looks really ugly.

[maturin 12]

That's why it's optional.

Weapons such as the AA-12, MP5, M16 and M2 are practically worthless without functioning ghost rings.

[-Coulum- 35]

Nah, I don't like it. It might be "realistic", but it looks really ugly.

Ha, and I was expecting people to say "no in real life your sights don't magically fade away so this isn't realistic". Fair enough I guess I admit it isn't exactly aesthetically pleasing... but when I am looking down the sights I am usually admiring the person I am about to kill rather than the scope. I think if you were to actually play with these transparent sights you would find that it no longer seems as ugly because in game you aren't looking at the scope but through the scope - your attention is not focused on it. Options are always great and this would be a nice one to have. I wonder how hard it is to implement.

Weapons such as the AA-12, MP5, M16 and M2 are practically worthless without functioning ghost rings.

Yes I especially notice this with the mp5. No matter what situation I am in I absolutely hate using this weapon in arma because it is so hard to find the target behind the sights. But when using it airsofting (is that a word?) I find it quite nice to use in close quarters - the sight never gets in the way... then again here in Canada airsoft guns really are transparent so maybe that's why.

[PuFu 4599]

Nah, I don't like it. It might be "realistic", but it looks really ugly.

i guess you have played ofp?

[DeclaredEvol 10]

But besides red orchestra, no other major game has real 3d sights, and they all work fine... I don't think it is a necessity by any means.

And do you disagree that magnified optics are overpowered compared to reality? Athough it looks ugly, I am not all that unhappy with the limited vision of magnified optics because it presents a negative for these weapons. And even then its only a small con, because there is only a very small distance that is too close to use the optics but too far to shoot "from the hip". And most times, when you are going into close quarters you should prepare by switching to the "over the scope view". 3d scopes would be nice to have, but I disagree that "this needs to be solved before ArmA 3 comes out" and I strongly believe there are more important things to eat up fps/time with.

Anyhow, veering away from magnification, what do you guys think of this:

You'll notice the optics are slightly more transparent allowing for more situational awareness and easier handling, especially in CQB. It would make the effectiveness of these optics much more realistic. I wouldn't complain if it were implemented - what about everyone else.

Well it is indeed an ability for modders to do, and mentioned before... someone saying that rescaling of a RTT scope unavailable? The vehicles in ArmA 3 use RTT inside such as the Submarine... and it rescales the world image. This really doesn't 'have' to be included in the game, but I would rather not have such a humungous sized scope take up my screen... look at these videos below. ps. I like the new Scope FX mod for ArmA 2, that is what I want if not RTT.

I like the

, which is a bit more realistic towards your arms. Check most of these guns out, but the ACOG Is @0:09...

And check out the FN Minimi SAW in this

@1:10, the sounds match it's firerate and recoil... I love INF 2.9 I wish it was still around. Edited February 17, 2013 by DeclaredEvol

[Minoza 11]

i guess you have played ofp?

Haha fits the description pretty well huh? :p

Actually Arma 1 got me into Armaverse, never played OFP to be honest. I care about aesthetics, they are important to me because they do affect the immersion. I'm fine with ghost stuff as an option, it's just I personally don't like it and probably wouldn't use it. Unfortunately I can't think of better solution for awareness atm, and truth is, like guys above said, using MP5 in Arma for CQB is a pain if you have to target enemy on the other side of room through that small sight opening while the rest of weapon is covering your screen efficiently. xD What might be a solution is simply another sights, I'd prefer that over ghosting anytime.

[instagoat 133]

The reason most games don´t have RTT even if the engine allows for it is that it´s a performance hog. Of the competition in 2008, no game used it either, but instead "cheated" in a similar fashion to the design mastery M4 ACOG, for example, or didn´t use magnification at all for all optics and instead modified the weapon behaviour.

However, I think RTT would look damn good in the game.

However, I think performance should trump looks, in this case, because Arma is demanding enough as it is without visual gimmicks.

[WhiteArcticFox 1]

how about just put it in the game, If your PC can't handle it or you want better performance you can simply turn it off and go back to old fashion 2D scopes.

[Minoza 11]

how about just put it in the game, If your PC can't handle it or you want better performance you can simply turn it off and go back to old fashion 2D scopes.

Point is, 2D overlay shouldn't be an option anymore... RTT as option, fine, but please, consider 3D scopes as other option.

[OChristie 0]

The optics match the ballistics of the future setting, I don't think anyone knows the ballistic property's of firearms and ammunition in 2035, let alone how to calibrate optics to these new ballistic property's.

[rasdenfasden 12]

I wouldn't be disappointed if we don't get fancy schmancy RTT scopes in vanilla Arma III, but I do hope that the fundamentals for modders to make them themselves will be in.

[chortles 263]

I wouldn't be disappointed if we don't get fancy schmancy RTT scopes in vanilla Arma III, but I do hope that the fundamentals for modders to make them themselves will be in.

That's pretty much what I think of so much of what so many items in the wishlist thread call for -- Arma 3 is about setting a non-rickety/held-together-with-duct tape-and-hardcore-fans'-inability-to-find-broad-spectrum-milsim-anywhere-else foundation for the series.

[gibonez 18]

since we are on the topic of optics how about we get realistic scope doping like in ACE.

None of the unrealistic zeroing to 100m,200m,300m etc.

RTT scopes along with a variety of modern reticle types such as the GAP g2 reticle would be boss.

Also why are there no First focal plane scopes in Arma games ?

[-=Grunt=- 10]

I just played a game called Heroes and Generals... It's got something that ArmA really needs when it comes to optics/sights:

Foliage distance adjustment. I was surprised when I looked through the scope of a Kar98K I picked up, that the foliage adjusted to my scope's zoom and covered the enemies I previously could see.

Here are screenies if anyone doesn't get what I mean: (It's a lot more obvious with a high magnification sight, but sadly, I don't have one at the moment)

Not looking through sights:

http://oi47.tinypic.com/33ojux2.jpg

Looking through sights:

http://oi49.tinypic.com/25i3txj.jpg

[-Coulum- 35]

I just played a game called Heroes and Generals... It's got something that ArmA really needs when it comes to optics/sights:

Foliage distance adjustment. I was surprised when I looked through the scope of a Kar98K I picked up, that the foliage adjusted to my scope's zoom and covered the enemies I previously could see.

Here are screenies if anyone doesn't get what I mean: (It's a lot more obvious with a high magnification sight, but sadly, I don't have one at the moment)

Yes, I totally agree. scope weapons are overpowered due to lack of vegetation and shadows at distance. In addition lack of vegetation and shadows at a distance just looks down right ugly. Heres what I suggest eralier on regarding this kind of idea. here's generally what I suggested earlier in the thread:

IMO, There are much better things to spend fps on rather than fancy scopes. For example, heres what I suggest for magnified optics and zooming in general: Have the clutter and shadow draw distance increased by the magnification being used instead. Not only will it make the game look nicer, but it will also improve gameplay. IMO this would be way better way to spend fps rather than 3d scopes, even if they do look cool, because it will not only be aesthetically pleasing but will help to bring the currently overpowered magnified weapons in balance with the other weapons.

Heres pics for those interested - All are in the exact same situation

now

Real RTT scope

2d scope + multiplied draw distance

Fake 3d scope + multiplied draw distance

Honestly the increased draw distance scopes not only make it harder to spot, but also graphically look very nice - maybe even better than the RTT...

I am interested: do you know how Heroes and Generals renders its grass and foliage? Is it "clutter" like arma? And how much fps do you lose when looking zoomed in?

Especially with all those big shrubby/planty things on the arma 3 terrain (that will only appear when within the clutter draw distance) I think this sort of feature is needed.

[lightspeed_aust 681]

been watching this thread for a while and of the options above, i prefer:

Fake 3d scope + multiplied draw distance

[Minoza 11]

been watching this thread for a while and of the options above, i prefer:

Fake 3d scope + multiplied draw distance

Same here.

[lsp 10]

Except the way optics are done in RO2 is completely unrealistic, it may look cool in a video game but it's video gamey. If you're using a optic with magnification on it, like a rifle scope x12 you don't see your surroundings like that. Unless you're shooting with both eyes open, which you can't do with a optic with magnification. In my opinion what they should simulate is tunnel vision, if you're not looking through the optic at the right angle you will get nothing but blackness. Or it will flash in and out of black till you get your face in the correct position, so it will happen with every shot.

[froggyluv 2135]

Fake 3d scope with multipled draw distance would certainly do the trick for me nicely.

[Creeper 1]

Except the way optics are done in RO2 is completely unrealistic, it may look cool in a video game but it's video gamey. If you're using a optic with magnification on it, like a rifle scope x12 you don't see your surroundings like that. Unless you're shooting with both eyes open, which you can't do with a optic with magnification. In my opinion what they should simulate is tunnel vision, if you're not looking through the optic at the right angle you will get nothing but blackness. Or it will flash in and out of black till you get your face in the correct position, so it will happen with every shot.

Yes, very unrealistic, please don't use the RO2 optics system. I read the title followed by the suggested picture and almost almost sprayed my screen with orange juice

[maturin 12]

The optics match the ballistics of the future setting, I don't think anyone knows the ballistic property's of firearms and ammunition in 2035, let alone how to calibrate optics to these new ballistic property's.

Uh, I don't think the parabola is going to become obsolete. ArmA's guns fire currently available ammunition, from what we've seen.

[Janat 10]

If you're using a optic with magnification on it, like a rifle scope x12 you don't see your surroundings like that. Unless you're shooting with both eyes open, which you can't do with a optic with magnification.

Have you shot a rifle with a magnified scope? I can say that it is perfectly possible to shoot and with both of your eyes open.