Voice with sockets

[RED 0]

Hmm the only time a member of BIS talked about a Linux server was about maybe 4 - 5 months ago when they announced that there would be a Linux dedicated server (if I remember correctly)

RED

[5thSFG Drak 0]

Suma can I ask you an Honest question?

Why did you guys take VON out in the first place?

And why is there no more support for 1.46 I mean Res is an Addon of 1.46 why go and change what was already the best game out there?

I mean addons to me means more Weapons Vechiles and bug fix's not a total change to the base of the game. Motorcycles and a bus are neat and all but why nor more planes , tanks and country units?

It's just my opion that you shouldve stuck with what was working. instead of dividing a community into 1.46 and 1.75

P.S. dont give up on 1.46 and plz get a Linux vrs for it. Thk's

[Harbinger-TG- 0]

OK, lemme get this straight.

Linux IS comming for 1.85; and 1.85 only i assume.

BUT it will NOT support DP, and therefore NO VON.

Now we have tried every 3rd party voice app there is; not one of them works as well as in game von. Thats just pure voice quality, not to mention the niceities of team, side, global..etc.

Im just having a hard time figuring out why all this is happening. That is if, the above statemnets are accurate and true.

Why spend all this time working on LINUX and not make it DP/VON capable.

thx

Harb

[whisperFFW06 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why did you guys take VON out in the first place?

<span id='postcolor'>

VON was DirectPlay implementation, no DP -> no VON, unless you make a complete rework of it, which means research about voice communication, etc.....

This leads to the second answer :

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why spend all this time working on LINUX and not make it DP/VON capable.<span id='postcolor'>

Because a day is composed of 24 hours.

Only 24.

Just a guess from my part, but...

Whis'

[kegetys 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (5thSFG Drak @ Oct. 09 2002,22:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why did you guys take VON out in the first place?<span id='postcolor'>

They havent taken it out, its still there on 1.75 and im pretty sure it will be in 1.85. Just needs directplay to use it.

[HellToupee 0]

jez sum ppl a rude tho its like, y did u do this y did u do that and they dont even know the facts, the VON was part of dp, and from what ive found other external prgs use less badwith and less garbled than what i got with von, u may not get the channels but many ppl on slower conenctions got very annoyed at ppl using von on GP as it lagged them and was just a garbeled msg.

[5thSFG Drak 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HellToupee @ Oct. 10 2002,00:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">jez sum ppl a rude tho its like, y did u do this y did u do that and they dont even know the facts, the VON was part of dp, and from what ive found other external prgs use less badwith and less garbled than what i got with von, u may not get the channels but many ppl on slower conenctions got very annoyed at ppl using von on GP as it lagged them and was just a garbeled msg.<span id='postcolor'>

Anyone have a translator ? Is your keyboard missing keys ?

[Placebo 29]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (5thSFG Drak @ Oct. 09 2002,20:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's just my opion that you shouldve stuck with what was working. instead of dividing a community into 1.46 and 1.75<span id='postcolor'>

The only people that divided the community are those that did or didn't buy Resistance, nobody forced anyone to buy it, nor was anybody forced not to, everyone has a choice, and therefore when they've made that choice the ramifications of the choice are down to them.

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (5thSFG Drak @ Oct. 10 2002,15:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HellToupee @ Oct. 10 2002,00:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">jez sum ppl a rude tho its like, y did u do this y did u do that and they dont even know the facts, the VON was part of dp, and from what ive found other external prgs use less badwith and less garbled than what i got with von, u may not get the channels but many ppl on slower conenctions got very annoyed at ppl using von on GP as it lagged them and was just a garbeled msg.<span id='postcolor'>

Anyone have a translator ? Is your keyboard missing keys ?<span id='postcolor'>

i can read it jus fine, maybee u should learn the way ppl write on the internet.

[ralphwiggum 6]

ppl, clam down....my finger is itching....

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Oct. 10 2002,17:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ppl, clam down....my finger is itching.... <span id='postcolor'>

*cringes as fingers gaze swoops over.

[ale2999 0]

Ed maybe on ur server u should just run directplay netcode on 1.85 so u can have all the addons + Von, the only thing is that you wont be using the qualities of sockets.

[Harbinger-TG- 0]

Ok id like to point out that most people havent or cant see any improvments using sockets. It doesnt run better, it doesnt crash less, in fact most people i know wanted RES moved to DP, we did it, and it worked better. Im so sick of this DP vs Sockets issue. Anyone got a site or some charts that actually show the improvments/differences betweent DP and Sockets?

*Still wondering if someones gonna answer his questions from before*

[whisperFFW06 0]

Harbinger, the problem is not there. If you do prefer DP, no pb, use 1.75 (or 1.85 soon) with DP. That's what you do.

The question is : why no VON with sockets?

The thing is that VON was implemented within DP (I mean, it is not BIS implementation, it is the Microsoft one). The whole VON thingy is already in DP, you've got "nothing" (well...hu... almost nothing ) to do once you've build your netcode under DP.

Now, if I remember well, there had been many complains about DP implementation, so BIS started to rewrite the entire netcode with sockets. To build VON with socket, you have to write the entire voice functions, by yourself, where with DP you only had to use prebuild functions. That means research on the subject, implementing, testing, etc.... In short, building Roger Wilco yourself inside the game (where, I do insist, you don't have to when using DP). That's a completly different and a very long process.

The other solution could be to use 3rd party voice library. This depends on the possibilities allowed by managers (cause it costs ).

Today, LINUX server will be possible. You see the antagonism between "Microsoft DirectPlay" and "LINUX" . So LINUX server will use socket. So no VON.

You can't blame them to have answered what had been asked ("get rid of DP!").

Well.... I stop there.... Some fingers are itching

Whis'

[kegetys 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (whisperFFW06 @ Oct. 10 2002,19:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The other solution could be to use 3rd party voice library. This depends on the possibilities allowed by managers (cause it costs )<span id='postcolor'>

I wonder how hard it would be to use something like the OGG Vorbis encoder to encode audio from the microphone in real time and stream it to the server, which would then stream it onwards to other clients... Running the encoder with a low quality setting and low bitrate could allow to use very little cpu cycles for it and minimal bandwidth, while having enough quality for a human voice.

[Skunk Monkey 0]

From this Forum it seems the only people who dont have lag when using VON is Kegetys & His Kyllikki Crew. My Experiance is VON does lag ...

I have used both RW and TS instead with no problems, of course you have to use different channels for different sides and before clan matches sort out your whisper keys (TS) before a clan match. But this isnt so hard. Normally we all just use one RW channel and speak in turn. Its not like you all need constant communication, just a few pointers will suffice for a well organised squad used to working together.

Kegetys & Kyllikki are very well respected in the OFP world so it with great confusion that its this lot who find VON so critical. Kegetys has got round so many problems in OFP and his Spectator script is just what was needed for good, long, epic COOP missions that I like so much.... so why you cant sort out using teamspeak i really dont know .... oh well you are the Guru I guess you have your reasons.

Myself I'm glad no1 can lag out the servers I play on when some annoying voiced american kid come on's and wont shut the fuck up .. at least with 3rd party voice comm you can choose who has access... i dont want someone mouthing off all the time on a public server who just wont shut up and it can be really hard to work out who is speaking over VON and kick them, I have in the past kicked the wrong person.

This of course doesnt apply to clan servers, only public servers and no VON was a god-send in 1.75.

There you are my tuppence worth.

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

Well, yes, when people in europe on a 56k tries to connect to a server on the west coast of the US, there will be lag...... but voice won't cause it.

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hit_Sqd_Maximus @ Oct. 11 2002,11:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, yes, when people in europe on a 56k tries to connect to a server on the west coast of the US, there will be lag...... but voice won't cause it.<span id='postcolor'>

well it certianly helps alot, even with my 120ping when i had 56k when ppl started talkin and spamming i would lag, i got adsl now, but rember the topics requesting ability to turn it off. Only down side is not being able to sue channels but if u got friendly tags on it dosnt matter so much cos u know who your with u can jus address them by name on rw or sumthing.

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

there is the ability to turn it off in servers Thats why when people say it shouldnt be on there in the 1st place, either dissable it in ur server or dissable it on the client end. Problem solved, no point in making the people who use it suffer

[Taku 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Skunk Monkey @ Oct. 10 2002,23:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">From this Forum it seems the only people who dont have lag when using VON is Kegetys & His Kyllikki Crew. My Experiance is VON does lag ...

I have used both RW and TS instead with no problems, of course you have to use different channels for different sides and before clan matches sort out your whisper keys (TS) before a clan match. But this isnt so hard. Normally we all just use one RW channel and speak in turn. Its not like you all need constant communication, just a few pointers will suffice for a well organised squad used to working together.

Kegetys & Kyllikki are very well respected in the OFP world so it with great confusion that its this lot who find VON so critical. Kegetys has got round so many problems in OFP and his Spectator script is just what was needed for good, long, epic COOP missions that I like so much.... so why you cant sort out using teamspeak i really dont know .... oh well you are the Guru I guess you have your reasons.

Myself I'm glad no1 can lag out the servers I play on when some annoying voiced american kid come on's and wont shut the fuck up .. at least with 3rd party voice comm you can choose who has access... i dont want someone mouthing off all the time on a public server who just wont shut up and it can be really hard to work out who is speaking over VON and kick them, I have in the past kicked the wrong person.

This of course doesnt apply to clan servers, only public servers and no VON was a god-send in 1.75.

There you are my tuppence worth.<span id='postcolor'>

I just wanted to know is one of the greatest features in OFP multiplayer perhaps included in Sockets, and I did got my answer, thank you.

Speaking of VON, why it is so important to LDD Kyllikki, here's an example:

Think about leading 3 squads of men, 8 guys each. Then U have a helicopter pilot and a tank crew. That makes it 5 different units.

Global, Side, 5 X Group channels, Vehicle channels for each vehicle(very useful when squad leader is reading the map and talks to driver), and finally the Direct speak which is great also. Our squad leaders use it now and then when they want discuss about something privatly.

I cannot understand how U can make this work with some kind of 3rd party software, when you can't tell before the mission who is going to get in UAZ #1 and Uaz #2 in Bravo squad for example.

I have never seen lag caused by VON on our server, but I understand that might be the case when pings are higher. We pay for our server for playing OFP and it's not very cheap(not going to tell how much), but our pings are are from 30-50 for almoust everybody, 50-55 from northern Finland, even if there's 30 guys on our server.

We play this simulation quite seriously, our squads practises every week, they have ORDERS to maintain formations and they have to obey orders given by their leaders and so on.

This is the reason why VON is so important to us, but I have never demanded it, only asked about it.

[whisperFFW06 0]

In 3rd party software, you CAN switch from channel to channel by pressing a key, so when 3 men get in one vehicle, they choose a channel, and go to this channel by pressing the corresponding key.

The essential missiong functionnality (unless BC does it, I don't know) is the possibility to talk to every channel, or to multiple channel (eg, with OFP VON, a group composed of a M113 and dismounted troops talk by 2 ways : vehicle channel for M113 crew, direct speak for dismounted soldiers (reality check ), if the leader wants to talk to his whole squad, he switches to group channel, and its done. You can't do that w/ 3rd party soft., because M113 will have 1 channel, dismounted another, and the leader can't talk in the 2 channels at the same time).

I fully understand the need for OFP VON functionnalities, but it has not been implemented in sockets mode, perhaps due to lack of time, perhaps not (Kegetys, it is perhaps easy to use Vorbis library, I don't know), the fact is that BIS has not done it yet. With the outstanding job they have done so far, they could get comprehension from players.

But I think too I take any negative comment a bit too seriously . Time to go to bed

Whis'

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

Yea, if they made a 3rd party Voice program with a global channel would be great, not a seperate channel called global, but a button were you can talk to all the channels at once. The vehicle and group channel is no big deal, no one really uses them anyway, but a global channel is what the 3rd party proggys are missing.

A bicycle......

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hit_Sqd_Maximus @ Oct. 11 2002,15:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yea, if they made a 3rd party Voice program with a global channel would be great, not a seperate channel called global, but a button were you can talk to all the channels at once. The vehicle and group channel is no big deal, no one really uses them anyway, but a global channel is what the 3rd party proggys are missing.

A bicycle...... <span id='postcolor'>

Global was the worst u had no idea who was sayin what it got abused, vechcile channels were most use full but channels with u talkin to many ppl was coas.

[joltan 0]

The two biggest problems with VON were the 56k users who didn't have a chance to disable VON on the client side and that you didn't have a chance to find out who was responsible if it got abused. The first reducing the players bandwidth below the critical mark - leading to lag for these players, the second making its use on public servers just impossible.

I think there can't be an equal replacement for VON, as the ability to select group/vehicle/direct communication can only be provided ingame. Seperate channels through a third party tool are a way around it, but the solution is much inferior, even if you have different predefined channels and switch them without alt-tabbing out.

While RW and other voice coms are good as long as there are not too many players and these players know each other well (they recognice their voices, and they have a lot of discipline), I often would like to be able to restrict my comments to just a few people.

If BIS could figure out how to introduce VON again, avoiding the above problems, I think it would be just great.

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

It rarely gets abused. Majority of the people on the server that I play on are over 18 and dont just start screaming into the mic.

Most 3rd party programs show who is talking If someone came out with a 3rd party voice program with a true global channel then it would be very close comparrison to the ingame voice, granted there wouldnt be group, vehicle, and such, but those are rarely used anyway, the only channels you would need would be a East, East private(for vehicle and group) West, West private, and a global channel that talks to all of these. It wouldnt be as good as the ingame one, but apparently BIS doesnt want, or cant put voice in with sockets so besides DP this would be the closest thing.