New VR Headest actually looks viable for average gamers

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

I just wonder if BI be interested to give native support for Oculus Rift in RV4 from ground up, or if it is possible to make it possible by a free track plugin

You wouldn't want to emulate mouse functions via software; USB in Windows already supports gyroscopes and accelerometers via the Human Interface Device standard. You could easily get the same functionality as TrackIR, though at a higher precision.

http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/Hut1_12v2.pdf

I've seen updated documentation somewhere, covering Accelerometers & Gyroscopes in detail.

Edit: http://hillcrestlabs.com/products/downloads/1000-2953%20-%20FSM-USB-2%20Datasheet.pdf

[jacknorrisuk 146]

I'm hoping all that spare money the Oculus Rift guys have picked up by now will mean we get a seriously awesome screen when the the final product hits the market, having that great resolution allowing for more precise longer range engagements, an awesome FOV for situational awarness in first-person, head tracking so I can stop using/rebind that alt key, and 3D just for plain immersion factor, this is what Arma has been begging for it's whole life!!!!

Exactly!

I have to say, there are times even with the lame old Vuzix 45 FOV low res glasses that it felt immersive playing Arma. Flying a chopper with a joystick and looking around is pretty good. With these ones, it could be AMAZING.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

New update on Kickstarter from Palmer Luckey,

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1523379957/oculus-rift-step-into-the-game/posts

Stretch Goals and the Developer Kit

We’re receiving a lot of questions about whether we can add stretch goals, especially ones that might improve the technical specifications of the developer kit.

The short answer is that changing any the technical specifications of the Rift developer kit may delay the ship date of the Kickstarter. Since we plan to ship the dev kits before the end of 2012 (less than 5 months away), we just don’t have room for error or unexpected delays that might cause us to slip. Sorry!

We’re hoping that once people see the developer kit for themselves, they agree that while it may not be the ideal hardware, it still delivers a really compelling experience that’s beyond sufficient for game developers and designers.

All that said, we’re doing everything we can to make sure the consumer Rift delivers the most immersive gaming experience you’ve ever seen and improving the Rift’s hardware will be at the crux of that effort. We promise it’ll be worth the wait.

I think not changing the specs for a dev kit is the best course of action, if you intend to deliver till the end of the year.

Onward to Gamescom, Unite, and PAX Prime!

If you didn’t get a chance to spend some time with us at QuakeCon or SIGGRAPH, hopefully our paths will cross soon. We’ll be traveling in August, meeting with game developers and gamers at GDC Europe, Gamescom, Unite, and PAX Prime.

If you’re a developer and you’d like to schedule a meeting with our team, please email rift@oculusvr.com and we’ll do our best to set something up.

We’ll see you all soon!

Palmer

Anyone heading to Gamescom? Maybe our OFP spies can check it out and report back, or have BIS themselves get a hand-on. :)

There's also some interesting info on the retail version,

Source: http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/behind-the-scenes-with-the-oculus-rift-the-hardware-that-could-change-the-w

They also have some powerful help with the consumer Rift design. Jack McCauley created the peripherals for the Guitar Hero series of games, and was instrumental in the creation of the USB specification itself, as well as being an expert in microelectromechanical systems. McCauley is not just working on this as a side-project, he’s a full time member of the Oculus staff.

P.S. What I love about this particular HMD is the trend, which could be set with gyros/tracking by decoupling the weapon/hands from the torso, and head from the torso just like in real life - just like in ArmA II.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Iroquois Pliskin

[Baff1 0]

Emagin make alpha wave scanners for your head too I think. Mind control sets.

I'm thinking that 800x640 isn't really a great enough resolution to make this worth the outlay.

My current Vuzvix VR glasses are 640x 480. (Not widescreen).

This is ultimately too low res.

Having two screens makes for good 3D in games or movies.

Mine has some magentic head tracking device.

Which is nothing like as accurate as track IR, but on the otherhand is nothing like as restrictive either.

I use this set almost exclusively for turret gunning in IL2 sturmovik.

So when I look around, I swivel my whole chair around as opposed to track IR where I have to keep my head in the same rigid spot the whole time.

There was a nice article on Eurogamer about Doom 3 having been completely rewritten for VR glasses. The Doom guy said he had a lot of support from Sony and Nintendo etc.

I think it's always in the ideas room each time they make a new gen of console.

No headphones sounds lame to me. An extra set of wires and fiddling around.

Driver compatability is an issue. Games are made for Nvidia and not for VR sets.

The company supports as many as it wants to, but ultuimately if it's a small company that will not be very many.

My VR set is has ultimately remained a one game intsrument. Not that i ever use it anymore. Or indeed much beyond the first couple of times.

I spent £229 on my VR headset about 5-10 years ago.

This stuff will only ever get cheap if it gets mass market release and that means.. consoles.

[gammadust 12]

P.S. What I love about this particular HMD is the trend, which could be set with gyros/tracking by decoupling the weapon/hands from the torso, and head from the torso just like in real life - just like in ArmA II.

^^ totaly this. One thing i found odd with this Rift is that they're demoing with the head controlling the weapon's direction (they're targeting the console). First thing i would do is to rebind it to head direction and keep using mouse to shoot, that is until a Wii like controller could be used for this (i wouldn't still be too sure of how pratical, we would need 360 degrees free movement within our rooms, not to mention strapping the wires to cealing somehow).

[doveman 7]

^^ totaly this. One thing i found odd with this Rift is that they're demoing with the head controlling the weapon's direction (they're targeting the console). First thing i would do is to rebind it to head direction and keep using mouse to shoot, that is until a Wii like controller could be used for this (i wouldn't still be too sure of how pratical, we would need 360 degrees free movement within our rooms).

I think we'd just need buttons to "snap" 90 degrees left or right and 180 degrees so that we weren't trying to spin round in reality and ripping our headsets off (if not our heads!). Not sure if this would be disorientating/nauseating though. Maybe we'll have to learn to blink whilst doing it to counter that ;)

[gammadust 12]

Well, we could just order a wireless version... and combine it with this (discussed here).

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

^^ totaly this. One thing i found odd with this Rift is that they're demoing with the head controlling the weapon's direction (they're targeting the console). First thing i would do is to rebind it to head direction and keep using mouse to shoot

Yes, that would be too much freedom for a demo on the derp controller. ArmA's system is excellent: WSAD - body movement, Mouse - weapon/hand movement & body turning, ALT key/head Tracker - in-game head movement.

The difference between a head-mounted display vs. a monitor + trackIR is total immersion, check out how eyes are forced to focus constantly on the screen during head movement - very tiring.

9wXx3vMy_AQ

Poor Dslyecxi. :( With an HMD your eyes are (almost) always looking forward, although with a huge FOV like in the Oculus Rift, you may find yourself eye-balling around the "screen", which would very natural.

---------- Post added at 23:45 ---------- Previous post was at 23:37 ----------

I think we'd just need buttons to "snap" 90 degrees left or right and 180 degrees so that we weren't trying to spin round in reality and ripping our headsets off (if not our heads!). Not sure if this would be disorientating/nauseating though. Maybe we'll have to learn to blink whilst doing it to counter that ;)

Nope, in ArmA if you want to do a 180, you don't turn your head with TrackIR, you do so with the mouse, because there's a deadzone on weapon/hand floating point, which once reached, starts to turn the character.

P.S. You can't imagine how relevant this HMD is to ArmA series - is anyone going to Gamescom next week? We seriously need a hand-on on this. Anyone? BIS devs? :)

Edited August 11, 2012 by Iroquois Pliskin

[gonk 0]

Already ordered.... Been waiting along time for vr to make it to main stream. Fingers crossed.

[doveman 7]

Nope, in ArmA if you want to do a 180, you don't turn your head with TrackIR, you do so with the mouse, because there's a deadzone on weapon/hand floating point, which once reached, starts to turn the character.

Yeah I know (although I don't use the deadzone). I just think it would be better if there was a "snap" 180 button as it takes too long with the mouse, compared to how quickly you could spin round IRL. With a VR headset it will probably seem even wierder having to use the mouse to turn your body to the direction you're already looking in, so a "align body/gun with head" button would probably be a good idea.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

New August 11 interview with Palmer Luckey,

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Oculus Rift tech inside a VFX3D shell. Shexy. This man has the right idea for ergonomics. :)

VFX3D,

---------- Post added at 03:18 ---------- Previous post was at 03:03 ----------

hwr3NgouWXU

The first guy playings seemed to demonstrate very precise movements, almost Quake III competition-like. If all bugs can be squashed (if there are any), and there's no gyro "drift" after awhile, this could work very well in online FPS.

[4 IN 1 0]

Already ordered.... Been waiting along time for vr to make it to main stream. Fingers crossed.

Either you are a game developer yourself, or you have too much money on your hands, or you just did not read anything the developer said, because the dev kit really is not for average or even hardcore gamer, which is what Oculus feared the most: people think they are paying for the kit thinking they are buying consumer grade stuff when in fact its quite the opposite.

P.S. I don't, however, mind if you donate the dev kits to BIS so that they can make native support for Arma 3/VBS 2/3 :p

Edited August 12, 2012 by 4 IN 1

[dmarkwick 261]

Yes, that would be too much freedom for a demo on the derp controller. ArmA's system is excellent: WSAD - body movement, Mouse - weapon/hand movement & body turning, ALT key/head Tracker - in-game head movement.

The difference between a head-mounted display vs. a monitor + trackIR is total immersion, check out how eyes are forced to focus constantly on the screen during head movement - very tiring.

Have you used a TrackIR in ArmA? Because "tiring" is NOT in the list of things TIR brings to ArmA :) it very soon becomes natural, and pretty soon indispensible. In fact, when I play ArmA without the TIR I still try to turn my view with my head :)

Poor Dslyecxi. :( With an HMD your eyes are (almost) always looking forward, although with a huge FOV like in the Oculus Rift, you may find yourself eye-balling around the "screen", which would very natural.

I have played ArmA in 3D, and in fact, THAT is tiring. Forcing your eyes to converge on different distances but forcing them to focus on the same distance, tires your eyes very quickly. As much as I enjoyed the ArmA 3D experience, this unnatural act took its toll. So I prefer the headtracking and 2D display.

That's not to say I wouldn't give this product a fair chance if it came out at a reasonable pricepoint, if it were around the same price as a TrackIR I would buy it for sure. However "just" 3D is only part of it, the driver setup is a major part of it. I was lucky enough to experience my ArmA 3D using the IZ3D driver, and that has the cool feature that allows eye separation to be controlled per-eye, meaning that I can leave the right eye as per ArmA normal, and move only the left eye to give the 3D effect.

Why do this? Well, imagine what happens when you go to ironsights in a 3D environment where this is not the case: you get a situation where the weapon seems to be aligned with your nose, neither eye actually looking down the ironsight. With the above described left-eye only separation, I can close my left eye and my right eye is aligned with the ironsight, just as it should be.

If this simple, single feature does not exist in this product, it's use in ArmA will be vastly diminished.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Have you used a TrackIR in ArmA? Because "tiring" is NOT in the list of things TIR brings to ArmA :) it very soon becomes natural, and pretty soon indispensible. In fact, when I play ArmA without the TIR I still try to turn my view with my head :)

Compared to an HMD, it is tiring & awkward having your eye muscles constantly move the eyes as you rotate your head, while the FOV stays stationary, not to mention constant refocusing as you do so. What you describe of stereoscopic 3D is something I have never encountered - must be a feature of gaming on AMD with cardboard glasses. :)

[gonk 0]

Either you are a game developer yourself, or you have too much money on your hands, or you just did not read anything the developer said, because the dev kit really is not for average or even hardcore gamer, which is what Oculus feared the most: people think they are paying for the kit thinking they are buying consumer grade stuff when in fact its quite the opposite.

P.S. I don't, however, mind if you donate the dev kits to BIS so that they can make native support for Arma 3/VBS 2/3 :p

I am aware...but after using the Sony HMZT1... anything has to be better. You forgot C.. Been waiting well over 20 years for Home user VR and I am willing to try anything to get it off the ground. Gadgets/Gaming is a hobby...my Sennheiser Headphones cost just as much. I guess lets see how many games finally add the ability to turn your head separability from your weapon. Even the demo has the player running around with his head in a Neck brace...

One of the problems I can see is that it is not true 3D... i.e. all of the light is going to be collimated, which is good for distance but not correct for close up objects.. Your brain and eyes can be tricked but you will sense as something is not quite right for the close up objects. light rays

Edited August 13, 2012 by gonk

[dmarkwick 261]

Compared to an HMD, it is tiring & awkward having your eye muscles constantly move the eyes as you rotate your head, while the FOV stays stationary, not to mention constant refocusing as you do so.

Constantly refocusing? What do you mean? I get the feeling you've not really used TrackIR. Constantly refocusing is what eyes do naturally with no strain, it's the removal of focusing that strains them... however that's not the issue here as the monitor remains the same distance away from you. I don't understand what you're trying to say.

What you describe of stereoscopic 3D is something I have never encountered - must be a feature of gaming on AMD with cardboard glasses. :)

You don't feel the strain after prolonged 3D stereoscopic use? Making your eyes converge & diverge on different objects at different distances yet forcing your eyes to focus on one distance only? Then you're a lucky one. I can manage an hour or so but the strain starts to become apparent after that.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Constantly refocusing? What do you mean? I get the feeling you've not really used TrackIR. Constantly refocusing is what eyes do naturally with no strain, it's the removal of focusing that strains them... however that's not the issue here as the monitor remains the same distance away from you. I don't understand what you're trying to say.

I'm sure it's comfy trying to pick out pixel targets out of corner of your eyes in the far right edge of the screen, as you turn your head left. Sure, you can remedy the excessive head/eye movement by increasing the sensitivity on TIR to a 3 to 1 ratio, which translates 40 degrees IRL head turn to 120 degrees in-game, but then precision suffers as a result.

There are no benefits of TIR + a monitor as opposed to an HMD, if you're really an enthusiast, you want 1:1 tracking precision and an immersive, undisturbed experience.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Iroquois Pliskin

[dmarkwick 261]

I'm sure it's comfy trying to pick out pixel targets out of corner of your eyes in the far right edge of the screen, as you turn your head left.

Seriously? Looking for targets on the right hand side while turning your head left... are you sure you're not just being needlessly picky about some problems? And you didn't explain about refocusing.

Sure, you can remedy the excessive head/eye movement by increasing the sensitivity on TIR to a 3 to 1 ratio, which translates 40 degrees IRL head turn to 120 degrees in-game, but then precision suffers as a result.

Well... not that I've noticed. In fact I like to alter the response curve so that I get a slow-down and even a dead-zone in the center, but that's just how I like to set it up :) But precision problems? Not seen any..

There are no benefits of TIR + a monitor as opposed to an HMD, if you're really an enthusiast, you want 1:1 tracking precision and an immersive, undisturbed experience.

Right, so twice now there are slightly sniffy undertones :) AMD + cardboard glasses (which isn't the case) and now there's only one way to be a real enthusiast... however, that aside, I don't know how immersive a low-resolution 3D image can be when I can't see my keyboard and my eye separation is not really good enough to make ironsights viable... however, as I like to think, different strokes for different folks :)

[4 IN 1 0]

Having been using TIR for a long time, I'd say that its multipled movement ratio still cannot compare to a 1:1 movement ratio that a HMD can offer.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Seriously? Looking for targets on the right hand side while turning your head left... are you sure you're not just being needlessly picky about some problems? And you didn't explain about refocusing.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here: proving that TIR is better than the ALT key? No one is contesting that, what you fail to realise is that your FOV moving along with you (HMD) is incomparable to TIR on a bolted screen.

---------- Post added at 11:30 ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 ----------

jBP0q_kNdMY

Sony's HMZ-T1 3D "personal viewer" and Wii MotionPlus, which has accelerometers and gyros for (head)tracking - a dedicated chip would do a better job, though as you can see this is pretty decent.

The aiming/turning in Skyrim isn't decoupled from the torso and it is done with head movements - you'd be spinnin' in your chair.

ArmA III will be the perfect platform for me to build a head-mounted display setup with tracking - might even use TrackIR with HMZ-T1, if the 2nd generation of this unit doesn't sees the light of day before then.

Sony can also do 720p 2D for those stereoscopically challenged... :)

[dmarkwick 261]

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here: proving that TIR is better than the ALT key? No one is contesting that, what you fail to realise is that your FOV moving along with you (HMD) is incomparable to TIR on a bolted screen.

I should say that each has it's own advantages. I'm not of the opinion that a headmounted 3D goggle is the best of all solutions, there are genuine downsides & consequences. However, as I said, I'd be happy to own one at the right pricepoint :)

The TIR has the rather obvious advantage that it's available right now, tried & tested and confirmed as improving the game immensely. The headmounted 3D goggle - isn't released yet so it cannot be said to be better, OR worse. It depends heavily, IMO, on some specific implementation, such as the left-eye only separation I mentioned before. Without that, it's a no-goer for ArmA.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

The TIR has the rather obvious advantage that it's available right now, tried & tested and confirmed as improving the game immensely. The headmounted 3D goggle - isn't released yet so it cannot be said to be better, OR worse. It depends heavily, IMO, on some specific implementation, such as the left-eye only separation I mentioned before. Without that, it's a no-goer for ArmA.

loRqx92CGdQ

Sony's HMD is on the market, albeit discontinued due to a second version coming. There are 2 separate 0.7 inch 720p OLED screens, so no crosstalk and 3D depth can be fine-tuned in Nvidia's stereoscopic driver or turned off outright, it specifically supports HMZ-T1.

I don't see a problem, really.

---------- Post added at 11:53 ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 ----------

Here's another demo,

5fHiX4QU0bA

Due to be out in "Summer 2012". Zeiss promised to release this last year, not sure what they're waiting for - better screens, market response?

Here's to competition! o7

[dmarkwick 261]

Sony's HMD is on the market, albeit discontinued due to a second version coming. There are 2 separate 0.7 inch 720p OLED screens, so no crosstalk and 3D depth can be fine-tuned in Nvidia's stereoscopic driver or turned off outright, it specifically supports HMZ-T1.

I don't see a problem, really.

The only problem I would anticipate would be the non-implementation of left-eye only separation. Of the 3D solutions I tried, only IZ3D had that feature. Winner by default :) ArmA cannot really be seriously played in 3D without it, so, if you're eager for this product to succeed in ArmA, start campaigning for it NOW :).

Here's to competition! o7

Indeed. Competition is always good, makes the current market leader more eager to improve. As long as it doesn't sell out to someone with huge pockets and an agenda - which unfortunately often happens.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

The only problem I would anticipate would be the non-implementation of left-eye only separation. Of the 3D solutions I tried, only IZ3D had that feature. Winner by default :) ArmA cannot really be seriously played in 3D without it, so, if you're eager for this product to succeed in ArmA, start campaigning for it NOW :).

ArmA is supported by Nvidia's 3D vision, thank you very much. And IZ3D is defunct and bankrupt as of August, 2012.

[funnyguy1 0]

In my opinion the most important thing about HMDs (and Rift in particular) is the FOV. Stereoscopy is just a side effect, and you don't even need to play in 3D using your HMD. 2D HMD with a large FOV and accurate headtracking is (to your brain) a lot more "3D" than a stereoscopic monitor with limited FOV. Besides, perception of artificial stereoscopy is affected by a lot of different factors, one of them being your natural ability to percieve it. I'm working with 3D video on a daily basis, do a lot of 3D gaming and test 3D equipment (monitors, 3dtvs, projectors, camcorders), all this with no eye strain or headache. My gf on the other hand can't take more than a couple of hours of 3D. Using a HMD like Oculus, you don't need to pump the stereoscopic effect up too. Perception of 3D using a set like that is much more natural (no window violation, ghosting etc.).