TPWC AI suppression system

[kremator 1065]

Don't put a delay into LOS, just don't use it if it's too good!

[orcinus 121]

Hi guys

All TPWLOS does is make AI turn towards and fire at a visible enemy they have line of sight to. It has no effect on how accurate they are once they start shooting. The only thing I can think of is to put a delay between getting LOS and turning & firing, and make the delay dependent upon skill. Whaddyareckon?

I'm testing the combination of TPWC AIS, TPW_LOS & asr_ai v1.16 beta2 with the aiming speeds of the latter set back to those of other recent versions which were >40% slower than 1.16 beta2. The tendency to get killed in <1 second after the enemy spots you at close or near range is much reduced.

Sorry Orc, I wasn't trying to be a wanker! Variables set in the hpp have to be deliberately processed into usable form, that's all.

No worries mate, you weren't :)

I meant that I should have thought of using an edited script version, & also mentioned the small window of adjustment due to the CBA per-frame event handler.

Sometime quite soon I'll need to figure out how to make an .hpp file work; the BiKi isn't too informative, do you know of any useful threads or tutorials?

Cheers

Orc

[tpw 2315]

I'm testing the combination of TPWC AIS, TPW_LOS & asr_ai v1.16 beta2 with the aiming speeds of the latter set back to those of other recent versions which were >40% slower than 1.16 beta2. The tendency to get killed in <1 second after the enemy spots you at close or near range is much reduced.

No worries mate, you weren't :)

I meant that I should have thought of using an edited script version, & also mentioned the small window of adjustment due to the CBA per-frame event handler.

Sometime quite soon I'll need to figure out how to make an .hpp file work; the BiKi isn't too informative, do you know of any useful threads or tutorials?

Cheers

Orc

Drop me a PM, I'll try to help you out mate

[SavageCDN 231]

We had our first real stress test of this script yesterday:

- UNSUNG / VTE mod with ACRE

- ASR_AI 1.16beta server side only

- DAC script version

- TWPCAS script version

- TWP LOS script version

Defend the base type mission with approx 16 AI groups ... around 120 enemy AI as well as a dozen friendly AI. Human players were 10 at mission start.

(I only mentioned to the other players that for this mission the AI could be suppressed... no other hints)

I had more than one player remark on how the AI was reacting - they were going prone when under fire!! Once people figured out what was happening we actually had groups laying down suppressive fire and were using it in a much more tactical manner. It completely changed the mission in that we were able to actually break out of the FOB we were defending and move in groups hunting down the enemy.

One thing I noticed - after about an hour of gameplay (enemy AI groups were being respawned by DAC so they just kept coming...) the enemy AI seemed to ... well.. lose interest in the fight for lack of a better description. Groups kind of stopped behaving tactically and either just a) stood around or lay prone not firing or b) actually ran away. We also noticed that they didn't go prone nearly as much...almost like they were back to vanilla AI behaviour (ewww.....gross).

Players were remarking how we had taken away their will to fight by kicking so much ass.. but I'm sure it was something else causing it :p

Any ideas as to what might be causing this (not saying it's anything to do with TWPCAS)? As I mentioned any enemy AI groups killed were respawned using DAC and thrown back into the fight. I can't remember if this has been mentioned before does TWPCAS suppression also get applied to AI groups that are spawned during the mission? I know with debug on that the map markers appear for spawned units but unsure if that means that suppression is applied to these units or is it just a pretty marker :p ? Perhaps something to do with courage or fleeing?

I tried to reproduce it afterwards with debug on but ran out of time... thought I may have noticed black balls over certain AI? Does that mean no suppression?

edit: Sorry forgot to mention - THANK YOU FOR CREATING THIS!!!!!!

[Robalo 465]

SavageCDN,

I would check the server FPS. If it goes below 30, you can start worrying about what mods you put in, what scripts, how many AI, because low server FPS -> AI sucks.

[kremator 1065]

Savage ... you MAY have set them to flee ! I turned that feature off an everything it fine.

[ollem 4]

Savage - looks like works as designed: Black debug balls is indeed incation of fleeing units :)

//UNITS CAN FLEE IF COURAGE AND MORALE TOO LOW. 0 = UNITS WILL NOT FLEE. 1 = UNITS WILL FLEE. SET TO 0 IF TOO MANY UNITS ARE FLEEING OR UNSUPPRESSABLE.

tpwcas_canflee = 0;

so please check with above setting.

[SavageCDN 231]

OK thanks guys I will check that setting as it sounds like that's what was happening. Also it's possible the server FPS had dropped although I didn't actually check it during the game as I was having too much fun.

Most of the AI didn't actually flee ie: turn and run... most tended to just go prone and not return fire.. which is great IMO.

[kiberkiller 10]

Jesus! TPWC AI + TPWC LOS + ASR AI makes AI so god damn fun to play with and against. Mod of the year definitely.

Special thanks for giving us options to customize the mod, because I personally want AI to fight to the death without fleeing.

---------- Post added at 08:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:29 PM ----------

I have a question though, will this mod work properly if I have it activated as an addon and run a mission that uses it in a script format?

[metalcraze 290]

Script takes precedence over the mod. At least that's my observation from running script betas

[dmarkwick 261]

Is there a possibility to allow coloured balls to remain after the death of an AI? I'd like to review the scene sometimes & see what state the AI were in up to their point of death. :)

[tpw 2315]

Jesus! TPWC AI + TPWC LOS + ASR AI makes AI so god damn fun to play with and against. Mod of the year definitely.

Special thanks for giving us options to customize the mod, because I personally want AI to fight to the death without fleeing.

---------- Post added at 08:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:29 PM ----------

I have a question though, will this mod work properly if I have it activated as an addon and run a mission that uses it in a script format?

Thanks kiberkiller, high praise indeed.

I'd advise against running the addon and script version simultaneously. While the end result might look the same, you'll actually have 2 instances of the CPU critical bullet detection running and chewing up CPU.

The script version is released for people to add directly into their custom missions, for general play I'd recommend the addon version. I'll have to think about maybe running a check so that only one version can run at once.

---------- Post added at 11:36 ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 ----------

Is there a possibility to allow coloured balls to remain after the death of an AI? I'd like to review the scene sometimes & see what state the AI were in up to their point of death. :)

Quite a lot of effort when into cleaning up those debug balls from dead and injured units, so how dare you ask us to remove it! Only kidding mate, I'll have a look at reinstating it for you. The only problem is that SP and MP debug ball handling is somewhat different, so I can't guarantee the results. Do you run the addon or script? I can just PM you the modified script for you to try out if you'd like.

[Zellfisch 1]

Please make sure you run TPWCAS (+ prerquisite CBA) on both the dedicated server as well as all player systems. Then it should work. If not please let me know.

CBA / CAS / LOS / ASR are installed on dedi and clients.

arma2oa.rpt contains the following:

Version 1.62.95417

Conflicting addon TPWC_AI_SUP in 'tpwc_ai_suppress_301\', previous definition in 'tpwc_ai_suppress_206\'

Is this a useful indicator?

Edit: Got rid of the conflict-message by deleting the old version of TPWC (should have been more careful here), but I still cannot see any bubbles over enemy's head when under heavy fire.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Zellfisch

[kiberkiller 10]

The script version is released for people to add directly into their custom missions, for general play I'd recommend the addon version. I'll have to think about maybe running a check so that only one version can run at once.

That would be great because I use the addon version because 99% of all missions don't use this script but I've noticed that some mission makers started adding them and it would be quite annoying to have to remember which missions used the script and which didn't and then have to restart the game every time you want to switch between two missions.

[fabrizio_t 58]

I upgraded more-or-less simultaneously to 1.62 official and asr_ai v1.16beta2; and find I am getting hit by Chedaki or Takiban with dismaying accuracy & speed at distances much below 100m or so (I usually don't even get a chance to spot units nearer than that, I'm dead too quickly; this is on vegetated islands like Podagorsk & Lingor, not deserts).

I have no mods installed, except for some debugging framework and one thing i noticed is AI in v1.62 is better, compared to v1.61 BETAs.

Now looks like AI target acquisition is faster and more reliable, especially in close quarter battling.

[tpw 2315]

CBA / CAS / LOS / ASR are installed on dedi and clients.

arma2oa.rpt contains the following:

Is this a useful indicator?

Edit: Got rid of the conflict-message by deleting the old version of TPWC (should have been more careful here), but I still cannot see any bubbles over enemy's head when under heavy fire.

Make sure you're using the hpp from 3.01 also, if you use the hpp from 2.06 it probably won't work.

[Zellfisch 1]

Make sure you're using the hpp from 3.01 also, if you use the hpp from 2.06 it probably won't work.

I did overwrite the old hpp with the new one.

[ollem 4]

For those who would like to know if the script is functioning properly on their Dedicated server, I created a very simple test mission which includes the latest tpwcas suppress code including some additional debug messages.

Please make sure no other TPWCAS mod is loaded/running!

CBA is a prerequisite!

Mission file is placed here: http://www.ollem.com/tpwc/

( A_tpwcas_linux_test_v1.Takistan.pbo )

This is not a mission but really a test. There are only 3 player slots, who are supposed to be used for seperate tests.

Test is quite simple:

- start mission

- select 1st possible player slot (team leader)

- after start shoot a couple of bullets in the direction of the friendly AI in front of you until the green debug balls appear and the AI should kneel

(- some debug chat text might appear: Chat message format will look like: "Civilian: Stance for unit [C 1-1-B:1] - Case [1 - green]: [kneel]" )

Optinally you could test the following:

- Select "squad leader" to see what happens if you shoot near friendly AI part of your group (AI should kneel and green balls should appear)

- Select "fire team leader" to see effect on enemy AI: you should be able to detect 4 enemy ai in front of you (in small town, near small lake): enemy AI should kneel/go prone and yellow and red debug balls should appear)

Edited July 30, 2012 by Ollem

[Zellfisch 1]

Thx, Ollem. Here are my results.

Results

-------

Team Leader: green balls appear / AI kneels / no chat message

Squad Leader: green ball appears / AI kneels / no chat message

Fire Team Leader: yellow and red balls appear / AI kneels & goes prone / no chat message

It is actually working like it should in your mission. Can it be that a mod like the CWR² Demo causes a problem here?

[ollem 4]

Thx, Ollem. Here are my results.

Results

-------

Team Leader: green balls appear / AI kneels / no chat message

Squad Leader: green ball appears / AI kneels / no chat message

Fire Team Leader: yellow and red balls appear / AI kneels & goes prone / no chat message

It is actually working like it should in your mission. Can it be that a mod like the CWR² Demo causes a problem here?

Thx for sharing your results.

I don't know why the chat messages do not appear but that doesn't matter :) (has been reported by someone else too)

As long as the AI reacts as descibed by you (in combination with the right colored debug balls) it shows the TPWC-AI suppression is working for you :cool:

Edited July 30, 2012 by Ollem

[Zellfisch 1]

I'm glad it's finally working, but as I mentioned before, we are using CWR² Demo atm and I'd like to know your opinion about whether it could actually be that the mod is responsible for the debug balls not showing @ enemy AI (own AI do have ... ehm balls). :cool:

[pellejones 1]

OK we did another test and we do get lag. When we fire with 50 cal type weapons the server lags with suppression script on. We use Script version and the servers specs (and settings) has been posted before..

Debug is off. Don't know what in the suppression script that causes the lag.

We were 11 players today, and 38 players on sunday. Same type of lag both times. It is like the server freezes for a short while (desync).

[-Coulum- 35]

OK we did another test and we do get lag. When we fire with 50 cal type weapons the server lags with suppression script on. We use Script version and the servers specs (and settings) has been posted before..

Debug is off. Don't know what in the suppression script that causes the lag.

We were 11 players today, and 38 players on sunday. Same type of lag both times. It is like the server freezes for a short while (desync)

And this lag only occurs for 50 cal weapons? All I can say is weird.

Question about the using this in MP. Does the server have to be using the script version or can it also be using the addon version instead?

[Robalo 465]

I also noticed short freezes with a sudden drop of FPS, from 50 to 20, when an AI in my group was shooting the 240 on the HMMVW (the armored woodland one). This was with client and dedicated running latest addon version. Perhaps something related to firing from vehicles.

[pellejones 1]

We did yet another test and we get desync and lag issues with TPW Supress. Most happen when M2s and similar weapons fire.