Will Bohemia finally improve ARMA's PVP to attract New Players?

[dmarkwick 261]

BIS (BISim) develops VBS, BI develops Arma. :p

Wait, so BIS is now BI, and BISim are now BIS? When I applied for a job at BISim they made those distinctions clear to me, are they all changed now? :)

[Smurf 12]

My god, been using the wrong name all along.....

[Nicholas 5]

Wait, so BIS is now BI, and BISim are now BIS? When I applied for a job at BISim they made those distinctions clear to me, are they all changed now? :)

I believe this is how it is:

BI = Bohemia Interactive a.s.

> BIS = Bohemia Interactive Studio

> BISim = Bohemia Interactive Simulations

[celery 8]

Wait, so BIS is now BI

Well, it's still very commonly called BIS, but when was really the last time you saw "Bohemia Interactive Studio" in any official source? :)

[Nicholas 5]

But then again, I'm not sure. This is from the U.S. Copyright Office:

[ 1 ] Bohemia Interactive, a.s............................Arma II.............................................................PA0001686866 2009

[ 2 ] Bohemia Interactive, a.s............................Arma II............................................................ PA0001686864 2009

[ 3 ] Bohemia Interactive Studio, SRO.................Operation Flashpoint :[version 1.85]..................... TX0006097699 2002

[ 4 ] Bohemia Interactive Studio, SRO.................VBS1 : version 1.99............................................TX0006318348 2006

[ 5 ] Bohemia Interactive Studio, SRO................ VBS1 : version 2.12............................................TX0006392701 2006

[noubernou 77]

Well, it's still very commonly called BIS, but when was really the last time you saw "Bohemia Interactive Studio" in any official source? :)

Well the website is bistudio.com still... :p

[pathetic_berserker 4]

There are some MP missions (DM,CTF) bundled with the game but I don't think that anybody gives a damn about them.

Problem was they were more a like examples/templates than well designed and thoughtfull attempts at the genre. BI(s?) said themselves at A2's release that they (and the supplied Warfare) were just stepping stones for the community. With the likes of Celery and Smookie as devs now, and taking into account what Celery has been alluding to it seems a forgone conclusion that BI is actually attempting to fullfill the threads NEW title so it's now just a matter of wait and see.

Though I will add that some good PvP in the community Alpha would be a nice hook ;)

[pd3 25]

You do realize that CoD and BF are popular in MP simply because anyone can play it at random servers due to their extremely primitive gameplay and a complete lack of teamwork?

ArmA at its core can't be played like that. Besides why would you want to play ArmA like that? This game is about teamwork and tactics.

I fully agree with this post.

However the ARMA series is quite versatile from an end-user perspective, I would consider any broad scale effort to make fundamental changes to the gameplay to attract more players from those demographics a complete betrayal of the game's core supporters.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Pd3

[LockDOwn 0]

So does BI have any feedback on this subject? Do we know where they stand on the issue?

[rye1 21]

Well what is the real difference between COOP vs PVP and what features can improve that aspect of the game?

I find that you come across a lot "COOP tactics" that wouldn't work in a PVP in a million years time...

And a lot of those "small, minor bugs" that in a PVP *WILL* get you killed because they are too slow.

[snaiperskaya 10]

Don't forget we are playing in a MILITARY SIMULATION game.

[Maio 293]

Don't forget we are playing in a MILITARY SIMULATION game.

I always though we were playing a game... The fact that I can drop all my gear at any point and run around screaming cupcakes recipes kinda pushes ArmA in the sandbox department.

BTW, I re-watched some demo video's of SMK animations on youtube and if 1/3 of whats in there makes it's way into A3, PvP focused players will have a richer experience.

All hail Duke Smookie!

[NoRailgunner 0]

Cross fingers that there will be no tacticool powerslide movement or at least something that makes some ugly wounds if the player is sliding over (rough) terrain.... some sort of badass looking coolness vs real/simulated feeling. Like "You can do all the things but you will feel/experience the result of your actions - no matter what!" :cool:

[BinaryCode64 1]

Deleted

Edited March 10, 2013 by BinaryCode64

[ratszo 17]

Better PvP tools out of the box..., squad hud, an easy squad join UI like in PR:Arma; ACE type map tools; ACE radios maybe.

Direct comms as good as acre.

A better browser. A way to D/L content on the fly for public servers.

No need to change Arma. Just make it easy to get on a server, join a squad, use the comms.

[edit] Oh, Dayz is reason enough to make sure online play works out of the box.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Ratszo

[DonMigel 10]

Will they FINALLY make on online mulitplayer that will compete with those titles? As of now their game is far above those two. However I don't understand the business decision to not even try and compete in the lucrative online PvP multiplayer? They leave it up to random individuals with low populated servers. PLEASE try. You have the game, just build it!!!

The answer to the topic name is likely no. Here are a couple of reasons why it's not gonna happen, please note that I am completely indifferent with ArmA. I really liked OFP since the community was tight and there were lot of pvp competitions, but I can see the charm ArmA has and respect the choices of the developers in the way they picked for ArmA even if they don't favor a pvp enviroment.

Reason no.1) Outdated MP server system

While other games have things like adding and finding friends, clantag assigning, auto mod installers, favoring servers, server joining ques, hosting and joining ranked ladders of any sort. ArmA hasn't upgraded much at all since ofp and there is little word about overhauling this somewhat neglected side of the game.

Reason no.2) Lack of consistent and solid gameplay

Like you said most people need to create their own fun in this game, but they do get a lot of freedom to do so. This leads to personal taste differences reigning on each server. Even a simple mission can run on different parameters/ 3rd view settings/ visible cursors to the point that 2 rivaling servers make fun of the preferences of the other servers community, let alone join a competition toghether. But maybe they will support pvp based maps like Dayz in the future, I find it unlikely though and it's surely not the only reason to make pvp compete with other games.

Reason no.3) No Ballance

There is chance, with the freedom of creation that comes with the futuristic setting, that there is no favoritism between sides this time, when it comes to gear and vehicles. Still it's likely that the unbalance between unit types will remain and maybe increase if even more stronger futuristic weapons are introduced. Balance of unit types and vehicles has never been a priority for BIS

Reason no.4) Maps not created for pvp

The islands are also based on realistic settings and not made for tactical and strategical combat ( having bottlenecks, flanks, backsectors and what not ). Because of this the balance between line of sight ( using view distance and height difference ) will create a lack of combat flow compared to a game actually focusing on this. Again adding realism but not to a solid pvp experience.

Reason no.5) Poor battle timing and impersonal combat

In ofp you had a 10 minute drive or preparation before heading into a new zone or town, this made tension buildup and the action satisfying and personal. Still it was considered to hardcore for the majority of players

In ArmA2 the distance and thus time to get somewhere is increased by 2 fold, the combat is trimmed down to some guy standing 6km locking you with a javelin in a fight that is over before you know what happened and since people prefer long time sandbox rpg type of pvp you are most likely not going to be able to do something the majority of the match anyway with your limited gear.

Reason no.6) Hard to learn, easy to m ?

ArmA is not a game for everyone, because the basics are hard. But once you cross a certain point you can simply beat everyone. With mastering I don't mean actual pvp skill, but more like tricks and game-know-hows to create comfort zones in which we can use the little skill we actually have to kill quite a lot and turn the tide. The more advanced the pvp mission is the more arsenal you have of sneaky shit to engage an enemy on unfair footing. Sometimes the game just looks like a soccer match where random people on both sides are allowed to carry hidden random weaponry, compared to all the other pvp shooters where bad skilled 1-trick pony's will also on occasion have to bite the dust.

If you check those points with games such as COD or BF you'll see that they focus on everything to make the pvp experience better. They make maps to steer players in the right direction, they add vehicles and weapon classes balanced out on each other, they are easy to learn but hard to master, there is always action and the combat is personal, they try to make the experience as consistent as possible etc, interface is easy to use and they promote tournaments and competition. It's not weird that even older versions of these games have bigger communities than our current one ( including the dayz players :D ).

I hope that the people reading this know now that it needs more than just a "PLEASE try" or a name just 1-2 things that need to change. And the bigger question should be with such an overhaul if it is even necessarily to compete with those games when you have unique product going?

[djfluffwug 10]

Also adding to that, when there are too many places for the player to hide, the game play can become tiresome or boring.

You might be looking around for 10 minutes in a town only to be sniped from someone hiding in one of the thousands of possible spots. While this may be realistic, it won't create a fun PvP atmosphere.

[Dingo8 1]

Also adding to that, when there are too many places for the player to hide, the game play can become tiresome or boring.

You might be looking around for 10 minutes in a town only to be sniped from someone hiding in one of the thousands of possible spots. While this may be realistic, it won't create a fun PvP atmosphere.

One of the promised portable UAVs with thermals may be able to help with that issue. :)

[djfluffwug 10]

Oh that does some good :D Hopefully that will help out with the issue and spotting will be an easier process than it currently is.

[noubernou 77]

*bangs head against the wall*

PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME.

Why are all these suggestions basically saying "make this like CoD"?

Easier to spot people? Its too easy now!

[batto 17]

Reason no.3) No Ballance

There is chance, with the freedom of creation that comes with the futuristic setting, that there is no favoritism between sides this time, when it comes to gear and vehicles. Still it's likely that the unbalance between unit types will remain and maybe increase if even more stronger futuristic weapons are introduced. Balance of unit types and vehicles has never been a priority for BIS

I hope you mean balance of availability or cost of weapons, vehicles and ohter stuff in PvP missions. If you mean balance of parameters expect ninjas soon.

[Dingo8 1]

Easier to spot people? Its too easy now!

Agreed. In PvP games in Arma 2 your char and those of your team mates automatically announce enemy positions and you just have to open the map to see their last known locations. I always thought of that as too easy.

[sickboy 13]

Agreed. In PvP games in Arma 2 your char and those of your team mates automatically announce enemy positions and you just have to open the map to see their last known locations. I always thought of that as too easy.

Might want to tweak the difficulty settings then... :)

[Dingo8 1]

Might want to tweak the difficulty settings then... :)

I could do that, but then the other players would still have an advantage over me. :p

I'd like to see an alternative system where players manually plot enemy positions on the map (but not just by laying down normal markers - instead something AI on your side will respond to as well).

[sickboy 13]

I could do that, but then the other players would still have an advantage over me. :p

Thats incorrect, in MP difficulty settings of the server apply to everyone in the game.