Mi24-A, Krokodil

[gossamersolid 155]

Hey Beserker,

I have been working with the MLOD you've sent me. I noticed that I can do backflips and 360s really easy mid-air with this thing. Do you intend to tweak the flight model a bit more or did you want me to give it a try? I understand how hard it can be to deal with flight models as I'm dealing with the Mig-29 that I have right now. It's really hard to get it the way you want it to be.

Other than the flight model, it's a freakin amazing model. It's so highly detailed, I can't wrap my head around how much time it must have taken you!

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Hey Beserker,

I have been working with the MLOD you've sent me. I noticed that I can do backflips and 360s really easy mid-air with this thing. Do you intend to tweak the flight model a bit more or did you want me to give it a try? I understand how hard it can be to deal with flight models as I'm dealing with the Mig-29 that I have right now. It's really hard to get it the way you want it to be.

Yeah go for it, I think its reasonable you make any changes you feel necessary to fit in with your pack.

Other than the flight model, it's a freakin amazing model. It's so highly detailed, I can't wrap my head around how much time it must have taken you!

Wouldn't hazard a guess, but for something that was meant to be a 'hobby' the hours are obssesive, scary levels, maintained over a couple of years.

But I feel in this case it was worth it. AFAIK it's still the the most detailed CG 3d model of a Hind-A around

[opffever 10]

Any chance this baby get some countermeasure flares and or a missile warning system?

[b00ce 160]

Probably not. The Mi-24A never had CMWS and I doubt it even had flares. Heat seeking missiles weren't really a problem when this thing was made. The hind didn't get any countermeasures until the war in Afghanistan, by then the A model had been phased out.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

^^As b00ce said. Though I'm supposing from photographic evidence that I've seen, it was the last of the Russian Hind-A's that were first 'on the ground' when they moved into Afganistan, I have some pics in my material of A's and D's flying side by side operationally. And I'm guessing they were later given to the Afgan gov't as part of the 40 or so they recieved.

[spooky lynx 73]

Hinds-A were quickly replaced by D's and other more advanced models which have both ECM and flares in most countries, so there were no need to fit them with any counter-measures.

[darkxess 60]

Hey man, love the chopper... using it always in my missions... though could just do with one thing: Woodland Version.

I use it alot on Chernarus and it looks strange with desert colours rather than a woodland camo version. Any chance of doing it on a later release?

Thanks

[icebreakr 3159]

Does anyone have a wierd oversensitivity issue with pedals, X+C keys? Especially when hovering, it can quickly spin out of control.

[eggbeast 3684]

yes love the chopper - it is oversensitive for sure

i would suggest these things:

a) reduce the spin sensitivity

b) improve armour and lookahead capability e.g.

  irScanRangeMin = 2500;
 irScanRangeMax = 10000;
 irScanToEyeFactor = 1;
 laserScanner = 1;
 armor = 50;
 damageResistance = 0.00593;
 class HitPoints: HitPoints
 {
  class HitGlass1: HitGlass1
  {
   armor = 0.5;
  };
  class HitGlass2: HitGlass2
  {
   armor = 0.5;
  };
  class HitGlass3: HitGlass3
  {
   armor = 0.5;
  };
  class HitGlass4: HitGlass4
  {
   armor = 0.5;
  };
 };

c) add CM

    weapons[] = {"PAF_TKB_481M","PAFB_AT2Launcher","CMFlareLauncher"};
   magazines[] = {"PAF_900Rnd_127x108_TKB","PAFB_AT2_4Rnd","120Rnd_CMFlare_Chaff_Magazine"};

d) add thermal to scope

     visionMode[] = {"Normal","NVG","Ti"};
    thermalMode[] = {0,4};

and

e) change the scope overlay - as the current one is too grainy, the sight lines are too thick and the alpha on the edges of the lines blurs so that about half of the screen is obscured in NVG/thermal - currently it is almost impossible to zoom in on targets with the gun and still see them (edit - looks like v0.2 got this good work!)

hopefully helpful suggestions!

Edited November 28, 2012 by eggbeast

[spooky lynx 73]

Thermal scope and flares for the helo that was phased out in mid 80's?:) The only passive countermeasure that may be installed there is exhaust screening devices on the engines.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

@DarkXess, take a look again there should be CDF skin in their as well as Nth Vietnamese, Lingor, and Molitian and some others

@IB I did PM you regarding the issue, not sure if you got it but for everyone else’s benefit I’ll re-post:

I took another look at the issue to see what could be done but every attempt was either no effect or worse, sorry.

FYI tell your guys to use 'turn left' and 'turn right' instead of the pedals (x,C) directly.

The 'turn' uses a combination of rudder and bank that favors bank as you move faster. So the effect at slow speeds is quite fine control of the rudder.

I know everyone has their own way but there may be a possible tip in here somewhere:

I have 'turn'left/right mapped to my mouse with 'pitch'up/down for chopper flying, but use the traditional pitch-bank on my joystick for fixed wing.

Also remapped keyboard Q=left rudder, W=throttle up E= right rudder, A=left bank, S=throttle down, D=right bank, Z=left turn, X=right turn, C=getout, C double tap=eject

@eggbeast, as Spooky pointed out, I have not found any evidence at all for Night vision or chaff, on any Hind- A whilst in Russian service or after export so that will be a no. Improving the look ahead seems like a good idea and I will entertain the increase in armour though I think (memory strain) I’ve tried to stay close to the BIS Hind values for consistency.

I understand my fix for the twitchy yaw is something of a Band-Aid approach, so if anyone with some experience want s to take a look , aiming to fixing it without ending up with the characteristics of a pendulum let me know. It’s the last known issue and would be great to fix it.

[max power 21]

@eggbeast, as Spooky pointed out, I have not found any evidence at all for Night vision or chaff, on any Hind- A whilst in Russian service or after export so that will be a no. Improving the look ahead seems like a good idea and I will entertain the increase in armour though I think (memory strain) I’ve tried to stay close to the BIS Hind values for consistency.

It was the same with the ah-1f. The only night vision they had was night vision goggles, which were incompatible with the telescopic sighting unit, and the only countermeasures it had were some jamming equipment. Personally, I kind of like the gameplay contrast this creates with the 'newer' helicopters.

[eggbeast 3684]

cheers PB - we tend to put it up against harriers and F35's so it does struggle a lot without the perks.

it would be feasible to retrofit them for a modern deployment?

on armour - this is really crucial i think to a good hind mod

hind's were famously armoured to to withstand 50cal rounds (e.g. dshkm) - hence US senator charlie wilsons support for stingers and SA7's going to afghanistan via pakistan in the 80s.

the armour in the BIS models is way too weak - we patch them up on our server meaning they can hover in AO for a long while taking sustained ground fire from 762 mg's.

ordinarily 2 or3 7.62 rounds will knock out their engine and they're toast - making them a massive liability instead of a battlewinner. the ah64 has an armour rating of 60 i think and the mi24 has about 25.

the boost to 50 is really worth it - also makes for a lot of fun on the blufor side trying to bring them down!

[spooky lynx 73]

it would be feasible to retrofit them for a modern deployment?

If it will be some sci-fi mod - then yes. May be done but won't have anything common with real life operating of this warbird.

[max power 21]

on armour - this is really crucial i think to a good hind mod

hind's were famously armoured to to withstand 50cal rounds (e.g. dshkm) - hence US senator charlie wilsons support for stingers and SA7's going to afghanistan via pakistan in the 80s.

w

While that is true, it's important to take numbers like that with a grain of salt. When they say .50 cal, at what range? How many? Where? I'm not saying that the hind is not a tough bird, but when someone says 'built to withstand .50 cal strikes', it does not mean that it is immune.

[eggbeast 3684]

hi max

sure i understand, but i fly a hind a lot in game and it goes down as soon as anything hits it... whereas cobra and apache and even wildcat i can take a lot of rounds while dodging about behind buildings/ hills before going off to repair. the hind has no chance - it just falls from the sky on (almost) first impact.

we uparmoured ours and it makes a massive improvement to longevity (from say 10 secs to 5 mins from first contact) - this is fundamental to players choosing to take one out.

[max power 21]

I wasn't really commenting on your opinion itself, but rather the use of vague data. When you say that the helicopter seems to get shot down too easy, that's more more useful for me as a developer than using some statistic that's not actually a statistic on armour resistance. I think it clouds the situation, because then you have to think about if that statistic is true, what it means, maybe you want to verify it... But, if you just say that you think it gets shot down too easily, and provide some steps for repro, then Mr. Berserker can investigate the system he knows and find the cause of it.

[eggbeast 3684]

we fixed the problem by increasing the armour - matching it against the apache values then lowering it slightly (as it was insanely hard to kill on opfor) - values are detailed in the post above.

it has always been weak since arma 2 came out. i think in arma1 we used an RHS hind and it was fine. the arma2/oa hinds have always had this problem - i gues not many people commented on it because they don't play OPFOR much?

[darkxess 60]

@DarkXess, take a look again there should be CDF skin in their as well as Nth Vietnamese, Lingor, and Molitian and some others

Sorry mate, I see the problem now... what I did was add the chopper as russian > air and it only had the 4 choices! but in empty > air I can see them all, sorry my bad.

Anyway, I like the 2 CDF woodland versions, but my mission is for the russian forces - but the woodland versions for them are more like desert and not even woodland looking.

Didnt the russians have a more woodland camo type rather than that one in your sig if you get what I mean, That basically is the better looking russian one.

Thanks

[pathetic_berserker 4]

@eggbeast, are you also saying you have the same armour issue with defualt BIS hinds? BIS defaults are the yard stick I prefer to work to because someone else has already gone to effort of balancing them against all other assets (or atleast gone further than I was prepared to). Primarily I don't want to go breaking things for someone who wants to run a vanilla setup and doesn't have the knowlege we have to tweak things, it also has to be remembered that the reputation hinds have of being battle hardy is more about the 'D's, with some improvements to 'A's during their lifetime. Having said that, I agree they need to be at least fun to play with so I will take another look, it could also be connected to location of hitpoints.

@DarkXess NP mate.

[max power 21]

There was talk of a problem with the BI hinds having their hitpoints for both engines and some other locations so close together. The theory was that the impacts would hit multiple locations at once and somehow multiply the damage.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

^^Cheers Max P, though I didn't have the BIS MLODS to position them by I could well have made the same mistake.

[max power 21]

I think a good way to test would be to shoot one in various parts or play with the passthrough (or whatever) attribute of the engine damage.

edit: Also, regardless of what the model is doing, arma only has one engine for you to destroy, so if you have two columns of engine hitpoints, you can probably just shave that down to one. If a bullet impacts the firegeoLOD near a hitpoint, it will do damage to that hitpoint location. You can probably just get away with a line of two or so to sketch in the dimensions of the engine.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Max Power

[eggbeast 3684]

we play with both hind D (stock) and hind A (your mod) on evolution red - they last about 2 seconds once they come under fire. I was the only pilot using them - everyone else favours the mi28/ka52s. As a result I made a patch to uparmour them and it was so good we use it all the time now. fighting against opfor it makes hinds a real challenge on our server - we also modified the swivel values for the kamovs/hinds gun turrets (in a non-realistic way) and they're devastating against infantry (meaning us of course) now. they always preferred rocket attacks before but now they also circle using MG.

[Metzger28 10]

First off, my apologies for reviving a thread that's been silent for over half a year. I understand this is against the rules unless something important needs to be said, so I'll explain briefly that given that I am a new member I cannot private message the author, so I am posting this here.

I am using the Mi-24A that was released by Pathetic_Berserker last year. I absolutely love the helicopter (personally it's my favorite soviet heli), but its handling is making it quite unfair to fight with or against. I've upgraded its armor, but in my exploration and research I have not found what variables in the helicopter's config file(s) would affect the yaw/spin speed and pitch/roll speed as there are no tutorials I can find that explain this. I understand the Mi-24A was based on the game's base Mi24 with some modifications, so I've attempted to backtrack to the game's base Mi-24 config files and compare values. Unfortunately all I've been able to find is the Mi-35's config files, which don't contain much handling data at all besides max speed, so I can't compare it to the Mi-24A, which has a lot more detail. If there is a base Mi-24 config file in the game's .pbo files I can't find it, and am really trying hard to figure this out to no avail.

Any help or direction would be appreciated. Again I apologize for bringing up an old thread, but I didn't think it appropriate to start a new thread when this thread has discussed this very problem.

Thank you,

Metzger