Is Arma 3 authentic?

[purepassion 22]

I didn't dictate anything. And please, can you warn the people like Maionaze from their manner of discussion with a name calling and personal insults? Then everything will just fine and polite. If you didn't notice, i prefer to back my point of view with the facts and knowledge, than with a name calling and insults.

I am sorry but if you won't confront yourself, it won't lead anywhere. Your point has been raised many times. The Kaijman doesn't exist, but that is not the point of what I wanted to tell you. :)

do not try to dodge this by picking up other comments!

[max power 21]

FeoFUN

The bickering stops now. You received an in thread warning and an infraction already. Listen to Franze and cool your jets. I do not care who started it. The name calling is wrong for everyone, but it's only going to stop if everyone stops. Drop it and move on, or you may find yourself temporarily post restricted. The same goes for everyone.

@daellis94

Authentic can mean quite a few things. It was used here in order to distance itself from the people who were saying ArmA isn't realistic. Realistic can mean a lot of things, too, but the word got worn out by people taking the most restrictive definition possible. Taking the most restrictive definition possible of authentic leads down the same road.

Moreover, like it has been pointed out many times, the way the Kaiman behaves in the air will at worst be on par with the other helicopters in the ArmA series: totally inaccurately from a flight simulator standpoint (but much better than other first person shooters), and at best, on par with the helicopters in Take On: more or less realistically, but not conforming accurately to the characteristics of any particular real life helicopter. So, if the model was 100% accurate to some real life helicopter or even was 100% accurate to a future helicotper that has not yet entered service, it would still be, for lack of a better word, an AIRSOFT HELICOPTER. Who gives a crap if it looks like some specific helicopter, all helicopters, or no helicopter that exists? It looks like a helicopter, it flies kind of like a helicopter- we'll see what it shoots like- but there's complaints about equipment or some shit where the fuel tank is supposed to be... really? If your suspension of disbelief of a fictitious helicopter design stops at where the cosmetic mock up of the fuel tank is, you're probably in the wrong place in the first place. These games are really fun, they have super deep gameplay, and situations emerge from having all kinds of complicated crap going on that you can't get any place else. These games aren't fun because the soldiers do the appropriate remedial action when they have a stove pipe FTE. The battles are realistic enough without waiting on some rooftop in terror and boredom making fart jokes for three hours to find that no one is showing up.

Frankly, the step after claiming ArmA isn't authentic because it has some spots where someone used some imagination or they streamlined this to make way for some fun where normally there would be some arduous shit going on is one step this side of saying that the game isn't authentic because the helicopter is made of polygons.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Max Power

[FeoFUN 10]

I just have to ask... Why is it that so much of what is being said here, and I don't mean to bash the people that say it, amounts to "The Armaverse is fictional, so we can make fictional scenarios and change up aspects of the real world beyond what realism, but because it's a fictional game it's still authentic."? That just doesn't make sense to me. I mean, I suppose Arma II had a similar problem with the setting of a made-up ex-Soviet country called "Chernarus," but really everything else about that game was fine. The US and Russian forces were realistic, as were those of the CDF and the Chedaki, as well as the Insurgents, despite the fact that their homeland was made-up.

You've made a nice point, daellis94. OFP, Arma1 and 2 weren't a geographic simulators - so no one complained about the fictional islands because the arsenal was pretty real.

Edited May 13, 2012 by FeoFUN

[Dragonshot 1]

You've made a nice point, daellis94. OFP, Arma1 and 2 weren't a geographic simulators - so no one complained about the fictional islands because the arsenal was pretty real.

FeoFUN why don't you just buy VBS2, or is VBS2 too authentic for you. ;)

[fraczek 4]

[...]have just left NATO, but remained friendly, which begs the question of why they didn't just stay in NATO in the first place, which has been a beneficial organization for those countries since they joined and up to the present, and damn sure be a nice alliance in a situation like Cold War II. [...]

Hey, Slovakia and Bulgaria! Where the hell do you get off? Honestly though, why would these nations leave NATO for Russia's corner? Have we forgotten how displeased so many of these countries are with their treatment by the Soviets?

Actually, coming from one of the countries mentioned, I can quite easily imagine the geopolitical situation. EU being in disarray and US interests occupied elsewhere (China).

With politology background, I can see it as a plausible scenario.

Czech? Social Democrats and Communist government takes over (they have medium-high prefs right now, and would have even more after another economical crisis), stop NATO membership for fiscal and popular reasons (say a big number of czech forces gets killed down in Takistan).

Slovakia? Fico (current populistic leader) is quite pro-russian already (economic interests) and Slovakia does have much more reliance on Russian gas than Czech rep (pipelines).

Poland? Verbally anti-russian. Although, I have been told by my Polish friends that in polls, the majority is more afraid of Germany than Russia. And if the EU money stopped coming, maybe they got swayed by Russian gas. But yes, that one is a big if. The Baltic states are another big if.

Russia already has big political interest in Central Europe and the West Europe, a lot of their industrial espionage is occuring here (made very easier by western attitude).

Ukraine is heavily torn between West and East already.

Serbia - pro-EU government, but pro-Russian population. Especially if the EU money stopped flowing and EU talks were suspended (say over Kosovo issues).

Finland - nobody buys Nokia phones anymore :)

Although I agree that currently Russia has big population and fiscal problems, nowhere in the story was it said that Russia took over these countries militarily. They are only under its influence. If the gas prices went really up, and they built the infrastucture to sell it to Chinese, I can see them getting some nice income and leverage. And there is already a big race over natural resources in the Arctic, Russia (along with other countries) is trying for years to extend their territorial waters ("it's ours because of the land shelf") to get them.

Remember, the A3 map shows "influence" not "overtaken".

I hope nobody from the countries mentioned gets offended, though :)

Edited May 13, 2012 by fraczek

[FeoFUN 10]

FeoFUN why don't you just buy VBS2, or is VBS2 too authentic for you. ;)

What for? To play it alone?

[myshaak 0]

...

Very nice post, +1 internet for you! :)

[tremanarch 6]

arma is a war simulator, not a vehicle simulator guys. THink of that. It is all about strategy, teamwork, ideas, Good actions!

Not how some machine looks ... thats not so important. Its nice to have, but not important.

its just important that you have objects that fulfill roles, such as transpoter etc air fight etc etc.. they could look like magic mushrooms with doodle hats ;) ok now there is the immersion. But where the tank on the polygon is located? really is not so important for the immersion.

[FeoFUN 10]

arma is a war simulator, not a vehicle simulator guys. THink of that.

What type of war? Fictional or real?

[slatts 1978]

What type of war? Fictional or real?

yep......my last bit of hope for you is gone

[max power 21]

What type of war? Fictional or real?

FeoFUN

I refuse to believe that someone that is as intelligent as you can not grasp a simple concept like fiction based on reality. Stop trolling. This is your last warning.

[FeoFUN 10]

FeoFUN

I refuse to believe that someone that is as intelligent as you can not grasp a simple concept like fiction based on reality. Stop trolling. This is your last warning.

How is THIS a trolling? It's a fair and simple question.

[max power 21]

FeoFUN

In my estimation, you are being obstinate in order to draw the ire of other members. The question you asked can not be answered in such black and white terms, which I am assuming you already understand. Black and white thinking is fallacious reasoning, and fallacious reasoning is often used in trolling. Since I am assuming you are intelligent enough to understand the kind of reasoning you are using, I can only imagine that you are doing it on purpose.

You are free to comment further on my moderation via PM. Thank you.

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[whiskeytango 11]

OFP, Arma 1, Arma 2, Steel Beasts, Falcon 4.0, Flanker 1/1.5, DCS, Harpoon, good old Rainbow 6 and Ghost Recon - the list of the great simulations that are also based in alternate realities.

Fixed.

Edited May 13, 2012 by WhiskeyTango

[Bee8190 10]

There must be something you're looking forward to, FeoFun? You mention aircraft engineering / maintance. Doesn't even physX and TOH flight model makes you happy? I'm totally getting a hard on thinking of mods and ACE tweaks...it''ll just blow us away!

[FeoFUN 10]

Fixed.

You fixed nothig - because all the weapons and equipment were real.

---------- Post added at 12:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 PM ----------

There must be something you're looking forward to, FeoFun? You mention aircraft engineering / maintance. Doesn't even physX and TOH flight model makes you happy? I'm totally getting a hard on thinking of mods and ACE tweaks...it''ll just blow us away!

TOH model is fine, but there is a second, even more significant question - weapons and their functionality.

[neokika 62]

You fixed nothig - because all the weapons and equipment were real.

Oh my...

The weapons and equipment were real? :butbut:

No! It's a video game 3D model...

Are you loosing the sense of reality?

[slatts 1978]

TOH model is fine, but there is a second, even more significant question - weapons and their functionality.

i would bet it would be the same as now, press tab -lock on - fire

i dont see how this is significant

[instagoat 133]

You fixed nothig - because all the weapons and equipment were real.

---------- Post added at 12:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 PM ----------

TOH model is fine, but there is a second, even more significant question - weapons and their functionality.

Yeah, realistic. Like the three round burst AK in OFP. Or the M1A2s for the USMC in A2. Or the Marine/Army mashup US force in Armed assault. Or the russian army using AK-107s. Or the drum-mag RPK-74, also in A2. Or the fact that NO vehicle in any arma game EVER simulated the sighting systems to -any- degree. Do we have a CITV in the A2 Abramses? No. Do we have proper laser rangefinding? No. Do we have properly simulated guided munitions? No. Why? Because it´s OVERKILL for a battlefield simulation like Arma 2.

Wether or not the silly antenna on the nose of the helo is right or wrong for the missles it uses doesn´t matter. Nobody cares, because -nobody knows-. Except from a handful of people, spread out over the entire internet, who oftentimes are particularily vocal, especially if many of them gather in one place. (For example, the IL2 forums and their community.)

This whole discussion is redundant. It doesn´t matter what units are implemented, as long as the weapons used are modelled within reasonable boundaries (ie, helos that don´t go faster than about 300 kph, rifles that fire appropriate ammunition instead of artillery shells, tanks that survive rifle ammo shots (hello, Arma 2 at release day) and die when you hit them with AT missles and so on and so forth.

Hyper realism rivet counting is extremely expensive in time, research and manpower resources that have to be implemented. Plus, it´s BORING. We´ve had THREE games, with no less than SIX addons spread out over them, ranging back from 1982 to 2012. I think it´s time for a bit of fresh air, and the -futuuuuuurrreeee- allows for more of that than a rollback to earlier times. Because if you go back to the 80s, you´ll attract even more hardcore rivetcounters. (Because that´s when they were in the army themselves, so that´s the era they´re looking for in particular) Those will then proceed to rip the game apart because X is unrealistic and Y doesn´t have enough bolts and the doors of Z open slightly too quickly. The future is easier because of the artistic freedom it gives you.

The Iranians at least have a reputation for doing kitbashes for their military equipment: maybe the MI-48 was done by special request of the Iranians to circumvent some arms embargo or something. As for the Iranian kitbashes, here´s an example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saeqeh

Wah you made me post again. Oh deary me...

Also, here´s a few unrealistic and unauthentic things in real life:

http://www.military.com/video/logistics-and-supplies/military-equipment/robo-soldier-has-arrived/666202453001/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1K17_Szhatie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_High_Energy_Laser

etc, etc, etc. In wartime, and time of extreme political pressures (ie, an arms race of some sort), military development accelerates. I haven´t found any data yet, but I´d imagine the curve, when put on the period of 1900 until 1945 to turn out pretty steep by the time WW1 arrives, and to keep climbing rapidly right until the end.

But as for the railfun tank and the Mi-48? I like realism. But I also realize that at this point, there´s more important things to do than build 100% realistic vehicles. It´s a bit disappointing, but I am inclined to handwave it away (ie, extreme technology advances in the past 20some years, and the other being a kitbash.)

Cheerio

Edited May 14, 2012 by InstaGoat

[FeoFUN 10]

i would bet it would be the same as now, press tab -lock on - fire

i dont see how this is significant

In the current form it isn't, but as i told it before, it may be otherwise. Just bring a simple but significant specific features to the different types of weapons. You can make the different types of weapons and equipement working by the different way, having their specific features and restrictions.

As example - the command-guided ATGM's, like Vikhr or Ataka. And self-guided ATGM's, like AGM-114L LONGBOW Hellfire or Spike. Same goes to the different types of FCS and sensors.

Such a little specific features could make the game much more interesting, making the different types really different.

---------- Post added at 03:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:51 PM ----------

Yeah, realistic. Like the three round burst AK in OFP. Or the M1A2s for the USMC in A2. Or the Marine/Army mashup US force in Armed assault. Or the russian army using AK-107s. Or the drum-mag RPK-74, also in A2. Or the fact that NO vehicle in any arma game EVER simulated the sighting systems to -any- degree. Do we have a CITV in the A2 Abramses? No. Do we have proper laser rangefinding? No. Do we have properly simulated guided munitions? No. Why? Because it´s OVERKILL for a battlefield simulation like Arma 2

You're still confusing the real weapons with some mismatches and simplifications with completely fictional ones. I can believe if USMC expeditionary forces may be reinforced with the M1A2, if they're preparing to face the enemy that has a strong armored forces or AT weapons. As well, i know that limited numbers of AK-107 is in Russian Army and FSB special forces.

BTW, it would be really nice if BI, in some future esxpansion, added this thing. This is an incredible and pretty futuristic project of the light CAS/COIN/RECCE VSTOL aircraft made by the American students for the NASA contest. THE ARBALEST: IRREGULAR WARFARE AIRCRAFT

Edited May 14, 2012 by FeoFUN

[slatts 1978]

In the current form it isn't, but as i told it before, it may be otherwise. Just bring a simple but significant specific features to the different types of weapons. You can make the different types of weapons and equipement working by the different way, having their specific features and restrictions.

As example - the command-guided ATGM's, like Vikhr or Ataka. And self-guided ATGM's, like AGM-114L LONGBOW Hellfire or Spike. Same goes to the different types of FCS and sensors.

Such a little specific features could make the game much more interesting, making the different types really different.

its hard enough guiding a TOW missile without lock-on anyway, i would hate to be doing it online in a helicopter while its moving...most people would to, which is why missiles are able to Lock and fire..even TOW. I dont see why BIS will change this for Arma3. its almost..dare i say..too realistic for Arma

[FeoFUN 10]

its hard enough guiding a TOW missile without lock-on anyway, i would hate to be doing it online in a helicopter while its moving...most people would to, which is why missiles are able to Lock and fire..even TOW. I dont see why BIS will change this for Arma3. its almost..dare i say..too realistic for Arma

It's harder, but still possible. In our ACE hardcore games we're using infantry ATGM's like TOW or Metis/Konkurs only with the manual tracking. It makes the game much more interesting and demand from the operator some skill to hit the target which is 2km away. Finally, it's nicely balancing the armored vehicles and ATGM's.

[instagoat 133]

It's harder, but still possible. In our ACE hardcore games we're using infantry ATGM's like TOW or Metis/Konkurs only with the manual tracking. It makes the game much more interesting and demand from the operator some skill to hit the target which is 2km away. Finally, it's nicely balancing the armored vehicles and ATGM's.

I would be all for a realistic implementation of difference guidance systems in the game by default, possibly as a difficulty option. (Advanced Weapons Features or something)

Ditto for actually working laser rangefinding. There are so many small features which could be implemented into the game to make the whole experience, no matter the vehicles used. Many of those are gamebreakers, to me. Because I think I´d be disappointed if we get all this fancy equipment, and have the features implemented trough another mess of shortcuts and hacks. (Such as the tab-locking or the rucksacks the AI can´t use on their own without tack-on scripts.)

As far as authenticity goes, we´ll know for sure by the time 2032 rolls around. I guess some of us are gonna pick up the game again then and think... well, whatever we´ll think then.

Nice thought, that.

[ProfTournesol 956]

As far as authenticity goes, we´ll know for sure by the time 2032 rolls around

Amen.

[STALKERGB 6]

First thing I'll do when ARMA3 is out,

open the editor,

fly around in an MI-48,

get shot down by a railgun...

:)