Opinions on manual gun cocking?

[metalcraze 290]

The problem is that RO2 is an arcade action game that tries all it can to pretend to have realism while having a lot of actiony stuff in too and that's what hurts its solutions to realistic details in the end.

[dmarkwick 261]

The problem is that RO2 is an arcade action game that tries all it can to pretend to have realism while having a lot of actiony stuff in too and that's what hurts its solutions to realistic details in the end.

Hmm no that's not the problem, it's not even relevant to the discussion :D

The problem is that I cannot see the gameplay purpose of manual cocking, I've heard it's done well in RO2 and I'm prepared to believe that, but I still cannot see actual gameplay benefit. In my view, cocking a weapon is something that you have to do to make the weapon useful, therefore it should be an automatic part of the load/reload/fire procedure.

But, that's just a IMO :)

Edited March 1, 2012 by DMarkwick

[custard~SPARTA~ 10]

Voted No

Don't like the idea I cannot see what it adds, the ACE mod doesn't even have a variation of it.

I do use the safety on/off though, helps me stop the odd negligent discharge if I have to tab out then back into a game.

[Smurf 12]

Hmm no that's not the problem, it's not even relevant to the discussion :D

The problem is that I cannot see the gameplay purpose of manual cocking, I've heard it's done well in RO2 and I'm prepared to believe that, but I still cannot see actual gameplay benefit. In my view, cocking a weapon is something that you have to do to make the weapon useful, therefore it should be an automatic part of the load/reload/fire procedure.

But, that's just a IMO :)

It makes senes in RO because bolt action rifles are the main weapons there. Here, whats the purpose? The major number of weapons are semi or full auto.

In the end in doesn´t matter that much anyway.

[SPC.Spets 21]

quick press "R" fast reload, animation kicking the empty magazine with the full one, you lose that mag but you can grab it from the floor later

Hold "R" normal reloading, animation take out empty mag, put it in the bag for empty mags, take a full one and reload

Double tap "R" ???

[dmarkwick 261]

It makes senes in RO because bolt action rifles are the main weapons there.

Right, but my main thrust was: what ingame purpose is there in NOT cocking your weapon? If there is no reason to not cock your weapon, and your weapon needs to be cocked to be used, then my argument is that it's a single function to load/reload/cock.

[Smurf 12]

Right, but my main thrust was: what ingame purpose is there in NOT cocking your weapon? If there is no reason to not cock your weapon, and your weapon needs to be cocked to be used, then my argument is that it's a single function to load/reload/cock.

Same thing I asked pages ago:

Why? We will be able to quickly change to a sidearm (NOT using the scroll menu) or engage in a melee attack?

[-Coulum- 35]

No manual cocking. There are many much more important features to be added/improved upon. Would only add a tiny bit of immersion (that would get old quickly) and more possibilities for bugs imo.

[dmarkwick 261]

Same thing I asked pages ago:

Hmm, OK so it's main benefit is that it allows you to skip an animation element? So the two benefits, as I see them, are an ability to observe the effect of your last shot for longer, and a quicker weapon change to another weapon.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Option 3, and hitting fire button again to cock. Though hitting reload seems logical, it would make movement a bit too......interesting.

[twisted 128]

Hmm no that's not the problem, it's not even relevant to the discussion :D

The problem is that I cannot see the gameplay purpose of manual cocking, I've heard it's done well in RO2 and I'm prepared to believe that, but I still cannot see actual gameplay benefit. In my view, cocking a weapon is something that you have to do to make the weapon useful, therefore it should be an automatic part of the load/reload/fire procedure.

But, that's just a IMO :)

I would like to see it in, as it is immersive and affects the rhythm and experience of shooting. and as such i dont prefer if it's manual or automatic as long as it has an effect and needs to be anticipated in some small way.

[metalcraze 290]

A lot of people want it, if only for bolt rifles and shotguns (that's like ~80% of voters) - so why not implement it in a Community Alpha and let people see for themselves if they like it and then vote again if they should keep it.

I mean why not? Maybe it will improve the gameplay a lot, maybe it won't. You'll never know until you'll try.

BIS should put a lot of experimental gameplay stuff into CA so we will decide before release what should stay.

[dmarkwick 261]

I would like to see it in, as it is immersive and affects the rhythm and experience of shooting. and as such i dont prefer if it's manual or automatic as long as it has an effect and needs to be anticipated in some small way.

If the cocking function is one of pure immersion, then it should be an option in any case. Personally speaking I wouldn't use it, I assume my soldier character to cock the weapon as part of its normal reload/fire procedure.

A lot of people want it, if only for bolt rifles and shotguns (that's like ~80% of voters) - so why not implement it in a Community Alpha and let people see for themselves if they like it and then vote again if they should keep it.

I mean why not? Maybe it will improve the gameplay a lot, maybe it won't. You'll never know until you'll try.

BIS should put a lot of experimental gameplay stuff into CA so we will decide before release what should stay.

This idea would work :) BIS could implement experimental ideas of this nature as addons even, although it possibly gets away from the purpose of the alpha.

[mr burns 132]

DMarwick: You sir, are the lawyer of non-cockers :)

I have no opinion in this.

Not knowing why this thread is full of RO reference, but having played RO i can tell you that since manual "bolting" is optional, there was one config reset that let me forget to enable it again and guess what? I give a rats ass about manual bolting, mostly because i don´t play bolt action in such a fast paced shooter as RO2 has become but that´s another story...

Make it optional, we´re all fine with it.

But when you do something like this, expect that Mr Burns wants to be able sitting there cocking his MG3 all day until the frickin belt ends!

Make all the things devs!!!

[maddogx 13]

I am pro manual cocking, but agree that it should be optional. We wouldn't want to force any manual cocking on anyone would we, ladies? :D

[instagoat 133]

If this were added as a completely optional realism option in the difficulty menu, I would enjoy this. I imagine it to be sort of satisfying to manually cycle the action on your rifle after a well placed shot. Ka-chinnk-klick-klick

[purepassion 22]

As a mod for sniper rifles and shotguns - Why not!? :)

[onlyrazor 11]

Sure, why not?

[neokika 62]

I mean why not? Maybe it will improve the gameplay a lot, maybe it won't. You'll never know until you'll try.

Well, this type of feature is not so trivial as you seem to think.

Like the Devs already said, it's very hard to add new features to the engine, something always break, and imagine the work just to implement an "experimental" feature like you suggested:

1. Motion capture the caracter animation and implement it in the animation system
   
2. Create the weapon animation and put it working in game and syncronized with the caracter animatiion
   
3. Code the new feature
   
4. Debug it and make sure it works (So ppl can test it)
   

And all this for ppl test in an Alpha and see if they like it? What nonsense is that?

They have their own agenda, they can't just do whatever they want with limited time, resources and man power they have.

[SOTGAN 1]

So I should mannualy reload a gun with my mouse? Yeah that is so realistic

[onlyrazor 11]

So I should mannualy reload a gun with my mouse? Yeah that is so realistic

Yeah, I know, right? In real life, I just press that handy 'R' key and the gun does the reloading for me. :p

[metalcraze 290]

They don't have to animate cocking for Community Alpha you know.

Just add it as a gameplay element and if community will truly like it - animate it later. There still will be like half of a year until the game is released and I doubt it will be released this year.

There is always a delay with major ArmA releases.

[max power 21]

I think it would be nice to differentiate a dry reload procedure from a tactical reload. Press-to-cock (lol) would be an option for doing this. I really liked the way reloads were done in Infiltration.

But there is another thing to consider. The soldier model's animations are not the same thing as the gun's animations, in the current way BIS does its proxy weapons. It's not like most FPS's where you have two hands and a gun to animate. The soldier's animation is done with rtms and the weapon's animations are done with cfgAnimations. Gun animations actually require a new animation class for every different movement in the animation. I think it would be very difficult to get the bolt animation, animated with lines of code, to match up with the rtm animation, captured with a motion capture set and then tuned in Maya (evidence strongly suggests). I think there would have to be a change in that system... but maybe there is already? BIS said something about a new way of animating.

I guess even a tool that translates animations in Maya into cfgAnimations classes would help.

[instagoat 133]

I think it would be nice to differentiate a dry reload procedure from a tactical reload. Press-to-cock (lol) would be an option for doing this. I really liked the way reloads were done in Infiltration.

But there is another thing to consider. The soldier model's animations are not the same thing as the gun's animations, in the current way BIS does its proxy weapons. It's not like most FPS's where you have two hands and a gun to animate. The soldier's animation is done with rtms and the weapon's animations are done with cfgAnimations. Gun animations actually require a new animation class for every different movement in the animation. I think it would be very difficult to get the bolt animation, animated with lines of code, to match up with the rtm animation, captured with a motion capture set and then tuned in Maya (evidence strongly suggests). I think there would have to be a change in that system... but maybe there is already? BIS said something about a new way of animating.

I guess even a tool that translates animations in Maya into cfgAnimations classes would help.

I hope so. Otherwise, the new reload animations will look as silly as they do in the E3 trailer (where they show a reload of an EBR, with the correct hand movements, but the magazine just teleports in and out, so the hands are actually empty). Which would be a shame, because the new reloading animations already look beautiful.

[kylania 568]

Yeah, I know, right? In real life, I just press that handy 'R' key and the gun does the reloading for me. :p

I was driving once and actually tried to press m to bring up the map to see which way I had to turn at an upcoming intersection. Just reached in front of the steering wheel and tried to press the 'm' button where the keyboard would have been. So embarrassing. My friend was like "Why'd you just poke the steeringwheel?"