Training from Amerca's Army Games in ArmA3

[160thSOAR 10]

I was playing America's Army 3 the other day, and it hit me that the America's Army games were doing something right.

In the America's Army games, there was a thing called "Training." To use certain weapon systems in multiplayer, you had to qualify with them in training. For example, to use the M249 SAW, M203, and certain types of grenades, you had to pass the Advanced Weapons course. To use the M24 and M82 sniper rifles, you had to pass courses with those weapons. To use the AT4 and the SMAW, you had to pass the anti-tank course. You also had to take a course to be a medic and a course to be special forces. Even better, to fly a helicopter or a jet, you would have to demonstrate that you can perform combat operations and not slam into a mountain the first time you actually get shot at.

I think implementing this as a server variable be a great idea. For example, to qualify for machine guns, you might have to take a course that taught you how to use suppression and base-of-fire techniques and then have you demonstrate this in the field against AI. To be a medic, you would have to be able to understand things like securing the area around a casualty before just running in and (if it's included in ArmA3) how to treat for different wounds. To carry an AT weapon, you would have to engage live armored vehicles, not just wooden targets. To carry a sniper rifle, you would have to demonstrate a certain amount of accuracy with your weapon.

Of course, there would be some weapons that everyone could use, such as those that require little training. Everyone should be able to use an RPG-7, simply because that weapon takes so little training to use in real life. Most assault rifles should also be able to be used at the start. Soft vehicles like HMMWV's should be drivable by everyone.

This isn't a points-based unlock system. Doing things in MP does not earn you AT. I think that this system would force players to demonstrate enough skill with a certain weapon or at a certain role to use it in MP and not be a waste of space on their team.

I think that it could work as a server variable. Too restrictive on regular servers, though.

Thanks to OnlyRazor for this idea.

What do you think?

Edited February 13, 2012 by 160thSOAR

[Smurf 12]

I guess that would serve only for the oficial out of the box MP game modes, isn´t?

ArmA is "too open" to be restricted like that, just need to fire up the editor to use anything i want....

[roberthammer 582]

Simple training like in arma 2 isn't enough? you need realistic army rules there?

[papanowel 120]

It's a game, no need to do some training before going to the battlefield.

Option 4 for me.

[onlyrazor 11]

I think that it could work as a server variable. Too restrictive on regular servers, though. An optional "train before you play" mode would really be all Arma 3'd need.

[160thSOAR 10]

Yes, all of you people who say that you don't need training have a point. You don't need it, and some of you probably think it would just be a pain in the ass. Well, you're right.

But I've seen a lot of people who do need it. I'm talking about the idiots who grab a Chinook and crash it into the middle of base 5 seconds later. Or the guy who tries to revive you with an enemy 5 steps away and gets his head shot off. Most of these people need to be forced into learning what to do.

Basically, this will prevent a lot of unwanted chaos. Yes, it will be somewhat annoying for some of us, but it will be helpful in the long run.

Anyways, like you said, it only affects the default BI missions. It won't affect whatever you make for a clan op, and multiplayer mission-makers will be able to choose whether they want to include it or not.

I can see why this would annoy certain people though. I find the training missions fun - I like to try to learn the new little things about a game before I jump right into multiplayer. ArmA3 is going to be different from ArmA2, and this is one way to learn about the differences. But plenty of people probably disagree with me.

[[evo] dan 79]

If its server optional, then theres no problem with it. It's just like having only pilots can fly on a mission. And maybe have the options expanding so it says the different kinds and training and have a Y/N for you needing to have it so anyone could take any inf weapon, but you could limit the pilot slots to just pilots training pilots. It is needed in a lot of cases as the amount of times I have seen heli's crash or be shot down because of a lack of training or plain stupidity, this really needs to happen.

[NeMeSiS 11]

I never felt that the trainings in AA really added anything to the game. Also, sitting in a virtual classroom while listening to a first-aid lesson was taking it a bit too far IMO.

[metalcraze 290]

No. This is horrible. This sounds just as silly as weapon unlocks from BF3.

[royaltyinexile 175]

I wouldn't dismiss the idea out of hand, because learning is a particularly tricky subject, with many players preferring to learn in different ways. It's a 'valid option' - in the sense that proof of its use is borne out in other successful games - and I'm sure many people would get a kick out out being challenged in this way.

That being said, it's not something I believe would be appropriate for vanilla content. With the strong clan-based infrastructure underpinning MP here, I feel that the option is there for players to get together and play by their own set of rules. Moreover, I'd fear that if we levied such a restriction on our gamemodes at launch, it could frighten away or deter a significant group of players.

I think there can be more intelligent ways or 1) deterring grief-play and 2) encouraging players to learn, than a box-ticking system. I know our MP designers will look forward to having the opportunity to discuss their work over the next few months. :cool:

Best,

RiE

[NoRailgunner 0]

This "forced/optional MP skilltest" sounds more like it won't be used/"liked" on all or most public servers.

Who is going to control or track such achievements/medals/"skills" on public servers?

The main things that could be more interesting for MP are "team spirit", "leadership" and "communication skills". But how one should measure these on public servers consistently? How many admins are able to do a job as referee or make an objective assessment?

[Sniperwolf572 758]

It would be neat, but without the lockout stuff.

The good stuff is the aspect of challenge. ArmA2 trainings (not counting the "S**t you missed" training and the paradrop course) were pretty devoid of any kind of challenge.

It would be nice to be able to unlock bragging-only badges, that sit on your player profile screen, depending on how well you did on a post-introduction training and is a neat minigame to the whole training thing. We actually have the ability to make this with the current engine.

Also, the medical course in AA was an interesting approach, but it did not translate well into the gameplay as you basically just sat trough the lecture and completed the exams, and never ended up using anything you learned. It would suit ACE more than the AA or vanilla ArmA environments.

[Leopardi 0]

Just like training added to full metal jacket and was a good prelude to the story in OFP:CWC, it can be great. Make it a plot thing for campaign. Just being a SF character out of nowhere... meh. Leave that to CoD.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Just like training added to full metal jacket and was a good prelude to the story in OFP:CWC, it can be great. Make it a plot thing for campaign. Just being a SF character out of nowhere... meh. Leave that to CoD.

To be honest, it worked for OFP setting, but look at ArmA2. The whole ship training thing felt really forced upon a player.

"Hey, you can't go trough these doors you just entered because of reasons. But feel free to exit the other way, you just have to crawl trough some boxes and other stuff that just accidentally happens to be cluttering up our fully staffed multi-million dollar carrier"

Separate training section (OA style) is the way to go in my opinion, you can even intertwine it with the main story somehow. Veteran ArmA players who do not need it can skip it, those who do get rewarded with some extra story tidbits and useful tutoring.

[Daniel 0]

I think the better option would be an OFP style training section at the beginning of the campaign, that can be skipped without missing any major elements of the plot. I think even the veteran players (certainly myself) would appreciate a refresher along with the chance to learn any new touches Arma 3 brings. I personally preferred the more "authentic" training on Malden, as part of a squad with a drill sergeant, than Arma 2 and OAs more "virtual" training.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Daniel

[[evo] dan 79]

Also have been thinking, having the forced training won't really help, because once you have done it, theres nothing to stop you from merely forgeting everything it taught you and then gonig back to being an idiot who crashes on takeoff.

[JdB 151]

For the campaign, flashbacks to the time spent on the range training with a particular weapon class would be nice (for new players, make skipping them optional). As the main character is in the special forces it wouldn't make sense to do basic training just prior to WW3, rather flashback to certain elements of training when it's appropriate to the storyline, character development or acquiring a new kind of weapon.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

I think the better option would be an OFP style training section at the beginning of the campaign, that can be skipped without missing any major elements of the plot. I think even the veteran players (certainly myself) would appreciate a refresher along with the chance to learn any new touches Arma 3 brings. I personally preferred the more "authentic" training on Malden, as part of a squad with a drill sergeant, than Arma 2 and OAs more "virtual" training.

Yup, that's exactly it. More authentic, AA like training, decoupled from the main campaign mode, with potential story and challenge bits in it. In the end, nothing stops you from getting a refresher from a different menu option. :)

[onlyrazor 11]

Which reminds me. If there's going to be any training, it'll need more Drill Instructor Hartman.

[Nicholas 5]

To be honest, it worked for OFP setting, but look at ArmA2. The whole ship training thing felt really forced upon a player.

"Hey, you can't go trough these doors you just entered because of reasons. But feel free to exit the other way, you just have to crawl trough some boxes and other stuff that just accidentally happens to be cluttering up our fully staffed multi-million dollar carrier"

Separate training section (OA style) is the way to go in my opinion, you can even intertwine it with the main story somehow. Veteran ArmA players who do not need it can skip it, those who do get rewarded with some extra story tidbits and useful tutoring.

Basically, make it like how Take On Helicopters was. In TOH you could access and complete training from within the campaign.

[kylania 568]

I would absolutely love if AA3 style training maps/areas were available. I really miss the training base built into the map like Sahrani had. Give me preset and resettable target ranges instead of having to use elaborate scripting and hours of target placement to get things just right.

However basing what weapons you can use in any particular mission depending on what training you've done is a horrible idea.

ArmA is not a "round" or "match" based game like AA3 and other shooters are. Weapons use should be based on mission need, not what external gameplay had come before or what someone's favorite gun is.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Basically, make it like how Take On Helicopters was. In TOH you could access and complete training from within the campaign.

Yeah, TakOH did it well, you can access it at any point. The problem I see with the same implementation would be the context of an SAS operative on a hostile island in the heat of WW3 learning to shoot his rifle/fly a chopper without anyone giving a damn. Maybe some kind of a flashback option like TakOH did with the SE Asia missions.

Although saying that, it makes me realize that the stuff I'm suggesting has near-zero chances of implementation. Training will have to be tied to Limnos (assuming it will be the only terrain available) in one way or the other, so flashbacks or "X years ago when I was a recruit" scenarios would have to occur on Limnos aswell. Virtual training OA style it probably is.

[Daniel 0]

For the campaign, flashbacks to the time spent on the range training with a particular weapon class would be nice (for new players, make skipping them optional). As the main character is in the special forces it wouldn't make sense to do basic training just prior to WW3, rather flashback to certain elements of training when it's appropriate to the storyline, character development or acquiring a new kind of weapon.

I think this would be seriously cool.

Even if it took place on a rainy day with poor visibility in a secluded area (hint hint BIS please make a small British training map for the purposes of an authentic experience :p).

[JdB 151]

Although saying that, it makes me realize that the stuff I'm suggesting has near-zero chances of implementation. Training will have to be tied to Limnos (assuming it will be the only terrain available) in one way or the other, so flashbacks or "X years ago when I was a recruit" scenarios would have to occur on Limnos aswell. Virtual training OA style it probably is.

Not many people would look on a map during training (should be disabled for training anyway unless it is a map reading course), I don't think even 1/25 would. So that means you just need to take a desolate, generic part of the countryside far away from an urban center. Special forces training involves training all over the world in every conceivable climate, these training flashbacks would just coincidentally happen to take place in the same kind of climate as Limnos ;)

Edited February 13, 2012 by JdB

[metalcraze 290]

Guys. It should be like CWC if anything.

You had the training through all of the Well Designed Campaign as you were gradually introduced to all cool things you could do in the game in a very interesting way.

And at the same time you had single missions - which also had same training starting with the first one and as you went through them they were teaching you more and more stuff.

Unfortunately since then BIS lost all SP-making skills they ever had.

Most people (including me) don't want to sit through a lecture/play stupid shit like "press WASD to move! WOW U r so kewl! Now move mouse to rotate the camera! WOOOOW! Take a cookie! And now press a fire button to fire! Holy crap dude you are so awsum" for hours just to do that basic stuff. You can't get skills by doing a training which is repeating what you are told to do/shooting at static targets. You get them by playing.

Something BIS understood in 2001 - which they don't now.