SOPA - Internet as we know it about to be gone?

[mrcash2009 0]

I wonder if they people ever think "Oh for fucks sake not this tripe again."

If anyone involved posts this view on social media it will probably be used against them in the media or something :), more than likely it will have new wording and be tucked in under a mother load of other legislation to busy things up so skim reading is required to pass it. Thats the usual trick.

[vilas 477]

TTIP - please google yourself, on several Polish forums i found guys writing that ACTA v.2.0 is prepared and they will try to push it again, moreover - there will be no anonimous internet but writing with personal data, European Parliament is preparing some bad things under USA government (big companies corrupting it) pression to force people pay for internet , no privacy etc.

please check and google yourself, it is top-new from last hours , TTIP

[Tonci87 163]

I hate this system, they can try over and over again until they make it (wich will happen sooner or later) but once they establish those new laws it is almost impossible to revert them...

[mrcash2009 0]

Well the elephant in the room needs a finger pointing so im sure many are aware of this, thought this is best place to post as its all in with the whole privacy angle:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22813893

GCHQ Prism spying claims: Labour urges PM to launch investigation

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22820711

Barack Obama defends US surveillance tactics

Well, of course he will. I notice he made the comment "no one is listening to your phone calls" ... ah, right thanks for that, phew!

The facebook thread was closed but they are and others linked to this, nothing surprising what so ever & just hope this shows what's actually happening instead of "paranoid" calls, which after this should be used with caution just a little. SOPA seems a little minuscule in comparison.

Edited June 7, 2013 by mrcash2009

[mrcash2009 0]

More interesting things with regards to Prism and the circus surrounding it:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2337863/PRISM-Google-Facebook-DID-allow-NSA-access-data-talks-set-spying-rooms-despite-denials-Zuckerberg-Page-controversial-project.html

Images from the article showing the Prism structure (spoiler due to images linked):

[mrcash2009 0]

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/whistleblower?paging=off

Meet the Whistleblower Responsible for the Massive NSA Leak

The 29-year-old source behind the biggest intelligence leak in the NSA's history explains his motives, his uncertain future and why he never intended on hiding in the shadows.

Interesting read for pretty much anyone or everyone, a good quote from this article:

For him, it is a matter of principle. "The government has granted itself power it is not entitled to. There is no public oversight. The result is people like myself have the latitude to go further than they are allowed to," he said.

His allegiance to internet freedom is reflected in the stickers on his laptop: "I support Online Rights: Electronic Frontier Foundation," reads one. Another hails the online organisation offering anonymity, the Tor Project.

[Dwarden 1125]

PRISM seems more like answer to what Russia and Chine and Iran and other gov already do ... it's ofcourse worrysome that gov do that w/o own populace approval

[Beagle 684]

Governments do not need any approvals anymore...the elections are just a casting show the puppets are set up by lobby circles. As long as there is bread and circuses no oen will really care about it.

Worked that way 2000 years ago and still does...humans do not change at all the last 30.000 years.

[walker 0]

Hi all

As I understand it PRISM works in the following way.

A Nation State that has laws to prevent its own state actors from spying on their own citizens can get round the ban on spying on their citizens by have a third party state spy on their citizens which is legal in the third party state.

So for example Citizens in the UK can be spied upon by the US NSA reciprocally US citizens can be spied on by say Sweden or the UK or China, each nation state can then view what others are recording as part of "Combating" foreign spying.

All completely legal except that by joining PRISM each nation state's security actors, both state and commercial, made them selves party to conspiracy to break their nations laws, this will be the subject of a class action I would think hint hint.

Kind Regards walker

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Is there anything new here? I always assumed they did this, its simply confirmation. Not bothered that my various contacts lists/call history is logged somewhere. There are simply too many individuals who's 1st response is violence when they dont get what they want. It would be nice if this wasnt needed.

I predict much hype, paranoia & extra layers of tinfoil application. The odds of a human pair of eyes reading my data are minute and should they wish to do so they are welcome to bore themselves lol.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Guess PRISM is just one of many spying/data-mining software tools, what about use of other intrusion systems like FinFisher etc? Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[mrcash2009 0]

I predict much hype, paranoia & extra layers of tinfoil application.

FPDR

Is there anything new here? I always assumed they did this, its simply confirmation. Not bothered that my various contacts lists/call history is logged somewhere. There are simply too many individuals who's 1st response is violence when they dont get what they want. It would be nice if this wasnt needed.

Well funny enough before it was as you say confirmed it was argued off AS "paranoia" and "conspiracy theory" in many places which is interesting. I remember a time talking to someone about GPS tracking on mobile phones, I was looked at like a nutter. The old saying about the frog boiling in a pot works here.

PRISM seems more like answer to what Russia and Chine and Iran and other gov already do ... it's of course worrisome that gov do that w/o own populace approval

Exactly the point, mirroring these countries is somehow acceptable, and being approved becuase "that's what they do for our safety so carry on" is getting a little bit old now. Thats the first line of defending it every time but doesn't justify it all. If you took the threat to humans based on terror and aligned it with every other daily threat to a human on the planet, terror is like looking at an ant on the moon, yet its the single biggest fall back justifications for all of this.

So for example Citizens in the UK can be spied upon by the US NSA reciprocally US citizens can be spied on by say Sweden or the UK or China, each nation state can then view what others are recording as part of "Combating" foreign spying.

Yes that's pretty much the "workaround" that's been highlighted. The main things are how much its open season behind closed doors and the way they circumvent the process to be as I like to say "legally non legal".

Edited June 12, 2013 by mrcash2009

[NoRailgunner 0]

Its simple and very comfy to take care only about your own ego and unless there is nothing big happen in your own backyard its just happen outside and 'its good against bad people'. People feel even good if the next new bar will know what kind of drinks and music they prefer - no need to know why and how those informations even got there. Its the 'share without care' attitude and for some people it has no flaws and no downsides.

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

See, see? Hype, tinfoilhatishness, paranoia already! If it worked the same way as Iran, Walker would be hanging upside down in a cell with electrodes on his gonads as punishment for all his trolling, tall stories and general subversive activity against capitalism. MrCash would no doubt be in an ice bath in an institution somewhere.

The difference is how the info is used. Proof? Ur still free as a bird?

No doubt u are concerned about the coming doom when democracy ends and all this stored info will be used as evidence etc. I dont think that is very likely myself.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Of course there are only visible and physical-violent methods of silencing people.... Damn media/interwebz such accidents should not happen - showing that independence & freedom lovin western politicians using "terrorism" as universal excuse for to put every citizen under general suspicion. Better not talk to your neighbors, colleagues, friends and fans - just use all those social services for an easier infopool at your local datamining center. Oh and the next step will be that you can leave all your doors and windows wide open - even when going on vacation! Good guys share everything - bad guys lock or hide things. :)

[Tonci87 163]

[batto 17]

See, see? Hype, tinfoilhatishness, paranoia already!

If I worried about my on-line privacy 10 years ago you'd call me tin-foil hat wearer. Identity theft is reality now.

If I worried about NSA spying on US citizens moth ago you'd call me tin-foil hat wearer. It's reality now.

Where does it end? What is one allowed to question and worry about without being tin-foil wearer? Do we need to wait until we'll be hanging upside down in a cell with electrodes on our gonads to start worrying?

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

If I worried about my on-line privacy 10 years ago you'd call me tin-foil hat wearer. Identity theft is reality now.

If I worried about NSA spying on US citizens moth ago you'd call me tin-foil hat wearer. It's reality now.

Where does it end? What is one allowed to question and worry about without being tin-foil wearer? Do we need to wait until we'll be hanging upside down in a cell with electrodes on our gonads to start worrying?

Err no I wouldn't, its been an open secret for years and I stated so in an earlier post.

Some advice on how to get through life without developing what I like to term 'chicken-little syndrome'.

Do a mental risk assessment on how likely the proposed threat to yourself is. Base it on reality and evidence. Why would someone want to read your emails? If they did what would they find?.

@Tonci, if u think governments shouldnt have any secrets perhaps you should apply the principle universally including these forums. I cant wait to read ur protest thread lol.

[Beagle 684]

See, see? Hype, tinfoilhatishness, paranoia already! If it worked the same way as Iran, Walker would be hanging upside down in a cell with electrodes on his gonads as punishment for all his trolling, tall stories and general subversive activity against capitalism. MrCash would no doubt be in an ice bath in an institution somewhere.

The difference is how the info is used. Proof? Ur still free as a bird?

No doubt u are concerned about the coming doom when democracy ends and all this stored info will be used as evidence etc. I dont think that is very likely myself.

You're not that far off. Currently we have a case of a whistleblower names Gustl Mollath in germany...hes not in jail...its worse...he's locked away in a mental Hospital for 7 years without trial because he asccused the Banksters and politicians of tax fraud...the cases turned out for true...but...well he won't be out before all the accusations are barred in 2014. Stuff like this is happening everywhere in Gernany and even the Judges don't care. There are also another 4 cases of tax-inspectors declared insane because they had a closer look at lobby protected tax fraud right now.

Freedom and democracy...my ass...whe alrady live in the second and "improved" GDR right now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustl_Mollath

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Interesting case beagle, perhaps mollath wouldnt be where he is without the criminal damage? OFFTOPIC though beause PRISM/spying wasnt involved? Its a peculiarity of the german criminal justice system so what does it have to do with the curent discourse?

[mrcash2009 0]

See, see? Hype, tinfoilhatishness, paranoia already! If it worked the same way as Iran, Walker would be hanging upside down in a cell with electrodes on his gonads as punishment for all his trolling, tall stories and general subversive activity against capitalism. MrCash would no doubt be in an ice bath in an institution somewhere.

The difference is how the info is used. Proof? Ur still free as a bird?

Some advice on how to get through life without developing what I like to term 'chicken-little syndrome'.

Do a mental risk assessment on how likely the proposed threat to yourself is.

I like how you got the mental illness snipes back in again via a different course, nice work.

You have taken the most simplest strawman argument to justify your point here, we are talking about countries and spying tech not overt oppression and violence to people. BTW if you think you are as "free as a bird", then that's pure comedy in its own right. Also it was Dwarden from BI that mentioned Iran, is he now a tinfoil hat paranoid?

Mattar, if I key word searched your posts for "tin foil" and "conspiracy theory" I would be afraid my browser might crash, if that's all you can bring to the table in this subject then I can only conclude your tolling or bating ... >>> again. If you have nothing to add to this subject other than name calling crap and questioning peoples mentality as normal with the audacity to talk about trolling here and bans in other threads then try harder to add something of worth yourself, some self awareness help guides might be worth a purchase.

Why would someone want to read your emails? If they did what would they find?.

Take some time to read this entire thread from post one onwards, the localised "nothing to hide nothing to worry about" drivvle has been thrown way too many times & is not everything this is about, I cant honestly believe we have ground-hog day in light of this information.

Edited June 12, 2013 by mrcash2009

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Cash when I say mental I mean do it in your head as opposed to writing it down. ie mental arithmetic is not a form of crazy maths. This thread from page 1 onwards is big brother paranoia. Government surveillance has existed in the US for many, many years and examples of serious harm are very thin indeed.

Foltyn was incorrect when he compared the NSA to Iran, the US service is infinitely better lol. The difference is how its used and what it is used for. If the NSA was used for the same purposes as Irans SS,1/4 of the US population would be in prison for their ideas and philosophies alone.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[mrcash2009 0]

Cash when I say mental I mean do it in your head as opposed to writing it down.

If I understand this, you mean, if its interpreted by someone like you as 'mental' then dont type it/write it? So now your a self imposed psychologist and a moderator? If I have that wrong explaining it I as you have done doesn't alter the fact of institution speak and mental risk comments.

Spoilered the rest so it doesnt hurt the eyes with text & quotes :)

Government surveillance has existed in the US for many, many years and examples of serious harm are very thin indeed.

Well, let me be the first to congratulate you on the notion that none of us knew the same, oddly its whistle-blowers (stick your label on them where you can) and sites that push this information to inform (key word) people that are the very things you name call. Now all of a sudden, everybody is privy to this information and data-sharing cross countries and to have any issue with it post confirmation is still 'paranoid'.

Just becuase you dont feel something or see it in terms of "harm" doesnt mean its good for you.

The difference is how its used and what it is used for.

Partly,more to the point its how its taken, how it its taken and not fully informed to those (who are the data) of how & why fully, and why other countries across borders that we all get security checked for to physically visit & body scanned have the access to mine it. This isn't about simplified arguments, but if you want to go with that, if everyone says the same thing about privacy and data much like yourself, times that by millions all saying the same as individuals, times that by billions and then you might see a large picture to it. But hey, to see that is paranoia, who would have thought.

This thread from page 1 onwards is big brother paranoia.

Then why do you insist on posting here without anything to add to it? After all we are all paranoid nutters, surely you must have better things to do.

Where does it end? What is one allowed to question and worry about without being tin-foil wearer??

It doesnt end, as long as you are a tinfoil hat type to but shut down and people think these things are the norm & good for you it will continue in many forms of legislation and law changes, but hey, only paranoid nutters have such a view.

---------- Post added at 20:39 ---------- Previous post was at 20:14 ----------

www.pcworld.com/article/2041545/facebook-twitter-support-googles-call-for-transparency-in-surveillance-requests.html

Facebook, Twitter support Google’s call for transparency in surveillance requests

A good thing I suppose although the "transparency" mantra they push on the users over the years of usage makes practice what you preach quite funny.

Edited June 12, 2013 by mrcash2009

[Beagle 684]

Interesting case beagle, perhaps mollath wouldnt be where he is without the criminal damage? OFFTOPIC though beause PRISM/spying wasnt involved? Its a peculiarity of the german criminal justice system so what does it have to do with the curent discourse?

What it has to do with it is that you can not trust the administrations at no time....and the criminal damage was just an accusation there is still no proof and never was. The whole case and the other 4 cases are witchtunts initiated by the goverments...the point is you don't need to be an army internet wikileaks whisteleblower to get caught in that.

There are thousands of Assages and Bradleys out there, those two promonent cases are just the tip of the iceberg.

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

What do manning & assange have to do with it? I thought this was a discussion about PRISM? Throwing random things around just derails the thread?

RE the anti-government thing, do you think its wise to believe all forms are bad simplybecause 1 small part occasionally makes a mistake?

@Cash, mental as in mental arithmetic/mental risk assessment refers to an intellectual process not the colloquial.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari