SOPA - Internet as we know it about to be gone?

[ric 1]

You're not that far off. Currently we have a case of a whistleblower names Gustl Mollath in germany...hes not in jail...its worse...he's locked away in a mental Hospital for 7 years without trial because he asccused the Banksters and politicians of tax fraud...the cases turned out for true...but...well he won't be out before all the accusations are barred in 2014. Stuff like this is happening everywhere in Gernany and even the Judges don't care. There are also another 4 cases of tax-inspectors declared insane because they had a closer look at lobby protected tax fraud right now.

Freedom and democracy...my ass...whe alrady live in the second and "improved" GDR right now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustl_Mollath

careful now...you don't want to rouse the interest of the Ministerium für Staatssicherheit... ;)

[Beagle 684]

What it has to do with it...simple...this kind of shit is not only about the INTERNET. The INTERNET is as well just the tip of the iceberg...got it?

The title of the thread should be like "the World as you knew it is about to end"

[mrcash2009 0]

What do manning & assange have to do with it? I thought this was a discussion about PRISM? Throwing random things around just derails the thread?

And you have kept it on track by not discussing PRISM much at all but pointing out paranoids and tin foil? As for derailing subjects, it was the SOPA internet data/privacy debate, I decided to post some extra bits & pieces into this thread becuase it was under one umbrella (rather than making a thread for each part of the subject all over the place) which I thought was best. So in some ways its kind of data/privacy/tech online arena. I dont know if moderators might want to change the title, I guess its a bit like the European politics thread, with a bit of everything surrounding it.

As regards the asange things, maybe a little off thread but whistle-blowers are key to this even with the PRISM subject.

Maybe a moderator could say what's best on that I suppose, otherwise I have been taking off topic for a while even with PRISM :)

@Cash, mental as in mental arithmetic/mental risk assessment refers to an intellectual process not the colloquial.

In the context of what you bring to such discussions its always with an air of lesser intelligence with something you dont agree with and or/madness with what you most def dont agree with, but if you want to high brow it then fine :)

Edited June 12, 2013 by mrcash2009

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Ahh so the end off the world is near? Any specific date or should I just live in fear until the evil USA crumbles? As we were discussing the PRISM revelations, precisely what part will it play in my doom?

@cash, check any dictionary, check several, preferably read them from cover to cover. I can not be held responsible for misunderstandings/translation problems.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[mrcash2009 0]

@cash, check any dictionary, check several, preferably read them from cover to cover. I can not be held responsible for misunderstandings/translation problems.

Please follow your own advice on the subjects you poo poo without any constructive input other than name calling, cliche's & argument bating.

@Beagle ... dont rise to him mate on that, it just wastes the threads subject. The world wont end on anything remotely as crap as this, what a let down if it did :)

Edited June 13, 2013 by mrcash2009

[ric 1]

Ahh so the end off the world is near? Any specific date or should I just live in fear until the evil USA crumbles? As we were discussing the PRISM revelations, precisely what part will it play in my doom?

what...you cant hear Nero playing his fiddle? or was that jersey shore i heard?....same thing i guess :butbut:

[dmarkwick 261]

@Mattar_Tharkari:

So you're happy that all your online activities & communications are to be monitored, good for you :) But what happens when they also want to know where you go, who you're with, and what you talk about? Because that's the same issue as this, if they get away with this, they'll get away with that. Eventually. By small degrees. If they want to know what you discuss online, won't they also be interested in where you were when you discussed it? Because that's already part of it, where you were when you posted whatever it is they're logging.

What happens when phone companies are "encouraged" to always broadcast conversations even when you're not using the phone? Think it won't happen? It will already happen with texts, It's only a matter of bandwidth and processing, which will always increase, so that's not going to be a problem. The only other thing stopping it is public outcry - and I'm not even sure that will be enough. Look what's happening here - governments are just simply doing whatever they wish.

It's not even tinfoil hat reasoning, as evidenced by this whole Prism thing. If this is happening, then other things will happen directly.

IMO natch :)

[mrcash2009 0]

Out of interest Xbox1 is pushing the boundaries with always online (transmit receive) always kinect attached and people are not ignoring that either, I wont even get into smart TV's.

I wouldn't waste your time directing a open question like that to Mattar he's made it evident that anything about these subjects and any level other than acceptance in any form is paranoid so its like talking to a brick wall. One thing is for certain it doesn't change the topic, doesn't sway the point about PRISM as just 1 example, its for others to make their mind up seeing as its more in the public domain for people that didn't know much at all about it to have some kind of informed choice over these matters.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22883078

NSA chief says data disrupted ‘dozens’ of plots

The US electronic spying chief has said massive surveillance programmes newly revealed by an ex-intelligence worker had disrupted dozens of terror plots.

Other side of the coin. Dozens of plots v millions to be mined daily is interesting though.

Edited June 13, 2013 by mrcash2009

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

@DM will never happen, simple logistics, public oversight. I wouldnt be happy with that sort of blanket surveillance, but it isnt necessary in the 1st place. These prophecies of doom may frighten some but when you start asking questions and looking at the detail, the whole story collapses.

I already asked above just how PRISM would affect my life and no one can tell me. There also seems to be the idea that there are people sitting somewhere reading everyones emails, how is that supposed to work exactly. To spy at that level of detail you wiould need to employ the entire population of a country to spy on itself. Its not feasible or necessary, I for one am not convinced by what the trolls, anarchists and conspritards have to say.

Im supposed to be outraged because data about who I email is stored somewhere. So why am I outraged about it? Please explain?

Edited June 13, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[ric 1]

@DM will never happen, simple logistics, public oversight. I wouldnt be happy with that sort of blanket surveillance, but it isnt necessary in the 1st place. These prophecies of doom may frighten some but when you start asking questions and looking at the detail, the whole story collapses.

I already asked above just how PRISM would affect my life and no one can tell me. There also seems to be the idea that there are people sitting somewhere reading everyones emails, how is that supposed to work exactly. To spy at that level of detail you wiould need to employ the entire population of a country to spy on itself. Its not feasible or necessary, I for one am not convinced by what the trolls, anarchists and conspritards have to say.

Im supposed to be outraged because data about who I email is stored somewhere. So why am I outraged about it? Please explain?

you must be thinking of the 1950's...you dont think there are main frames out there that can search 1000 documents a second looking for key words and phrases? and im just talking about a search engine...imagine one designed specifically to look for (what ever you/they/we want)

its not paranoia ..its tech... which can be used for good and bad.

[nodunit 397]

Though document names could be misleading, naming a questionable file after a tree for example.

If they do go through all of the e-mails and web history then I wonder if they also have enough shrinks on hand for the job.

Still, what gives the suits the right to do any of this? The common person isn't laundering weapons in backdoor deals and geopolitical plays.

Why does the common citizen get treated like a criminal while they can get away with virtually anything?

I realize the target isn't the common citizen but who is to say what they are looking for exactly?

Where does it end? Give a mouse a cookie and he will ask you for another.

Oh and I loved the picture of philosaraptor, Tonci.

Edited June 14, 2013 by NodUnit

[nettrucker 142]

It's about control that's it. Momentarily it seems that if you're against the political establishment you are considered to be a Terrorist. Whistleblowers are being imprisoned dissidents and AntiWar protesters are also targeted.

USA ---- United Stasi of America.

[nodunit 397]

If you're against the political establishment you are considered to be a Terrorist.

That would be ironic, "If you're not with us then you're against us!" terror tactics.

Edited June 14, 2013 by NodUnit

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Press have dropped this, no public outcry, doesnt look as if anyone is bothered. '192' was the opening question on Mock the Week. 192 is the number of intelligence reports generated last year by PRISM. Asked if they were concerned, the panel said no.

Latest: UK tells world airlines not to let Snowdon on flights to UK. Bet the lawyers are depressed about that one.

@ric, the point I was making (see 192) is that data isnt being trawled. It would be illegal to do so and impractical. That is why only 192 reports ~ 192 people linked to major crime/terrorism.

[Tonci87 163]

Though document names could be misleading, naming a questionable file after a tree for example.

If they do go through all of the e-mails and web history then I wonder if they also have enough shrinks on hand for the job.

Still, what gives the suits the right to do any of this? The common person isn't laundering weapons in backdoor deals and geopolitical plays.

Why does the common citizen get treated like a criminal while they can get away with virtually anything?

I realize the target isn't the common citizen but who is to say what they are looking for exactly?

Where does it end? Give a mouse a cookie and he will ask you for another.

Oh and I loved the picture of philosaraptor, Tonci.

It´s a very simple question, why should my government have more privacy than me?

[mrcash2009 0]

I already asked above just how PRISM would affect my life and no one can tell me. There also seems to be the idea that there are people sitting somewhere reading everyones emails, how is that supposed to work exactly. To spy at that level of detail you wiould need to employ the entire population of a country to spy on itself. Its not feasible or necessary, I for one am not convinced by what the trolls, anarchists and conspritards have to say.

Nice use of retard and mental again. People such as yourself that see things with those names will never be convinced, but then like other posters that have come and gone, this isn't solely about convincing YOU, you made your choice in face of this and anything other than convincing you is trolling, anarchist in nature or retarded, it says it all in that one statement. Posting simple strawman arguments and playing low key arguments can been seen as the same thing in terms of trolling.

You really need to read this thread that you wont, this strawman crap has been thrown again & again. It doesnt effect my life so whats the problem? Times it by you and everyone else saying it you are the prefect thinking citizen, well done. If you dont show any slightest bit of concern about your data and privacy from those who work in places that are secret based on governments who are supposed to be in place FOR the people then you work it out.

Data is a log and lasts, this isn't about effecting someone's little "lifestyle" its about accepting it as its progresses to be intertwined within someone's lifestyle so they dont complain, see it as normal even though its bigger and more powerful than the Stasi and this is global. The rest is borderline marketing to the public, control of what is in the public domain to get an understanding. What does trickle forthe via the very people that get lumped into the 'key trigger words' (see SOCA etc & this thread) do show just a small window/snapshot of what this is.

Im supposed to be outraged because data about who I email is stored somewhere. So why am I outraged about it? Please explain?

Strawman rides again, its not about you and your crappy emails, its about swathes of global data, mining algorithms (not some bloke in a room) and telecommunications and sharing via other countries plus seemingly un-connected legislation as per this thread title. You sound allot like Pelham, I often wonder.

Press have dropped this, no public outcry, doesnt look as if anyone is bothered. '192' was the opening question on Mock the Week. 192 is the number of intelligence reports generated last year by PRISM. Asked if they were concerned, the panel said no.

Some comedians on a 2 bit comedy show made to make light of all events as its light entertainment and their jobs to make it so? Yep, thats the best source of confirmation. As if a comedian on a BBC based show is ever going to bring up a full subject like that on a comedy driven 30 min show, they run off a script and a comedy focus ... dear oh dreary me. George Carlin or Bill Hicks un monitored maybe (sadly no more), but not that controlled platform.

@ric, the point I was making (see 192) is that data isnt being trawled. It would be illegal to do so and impractical. That is why only 192 reports ~ 192 people linked to major crime/terrorism.

But you ommit this thread title, we have other legislation being boomeranged into the system in order to broaden the scope of what terror and extreme and activist and other key "trigger" words will be (oddly enough the usual cliches you mentioned yet again), you really need to read this thread, try page 45 onward (similar discussions about a year ago) : http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?128877-SOPA-Internet-as-we-know-it-about-to-be-gone/page45&

Edited June 14, 2013 by mrcash2009
wrong page link

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

OK so it will not affect me and with 99.999999% also unaffected by PRISM, whats the problem? If its some future/proposed thing why not detail that instead of something which seems benign to anything except a few hundred criminals/ terrorists?

I asked why it was a problem and all I get back is 'its the government', 'it cant be trusted','it doesnt have the right'. All I an conclude is that some people are anti goverment for unspecified reasons. Well all I can see is government doing what it is supposed to do, protecting its citizens. If terrorists were allowed to kill without measures to prevent or capture them, there would be a huge public outcry demanding exactly what PRISM is.

We dont live in a eutopia so your policies arent practical in a real world sense.

[oxmox 73]

Senator Ron Wyden questions director of national intelligence James Clapper in a Senate hearing in March. Clapper has denounced revelations in the media that phone and internet records have been collected on a mass scale.

He says in this video that maybe people got spied "inadvertently".......LOL

:803:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9ss2_0emOY

[vilas 473]

It´s a very simple question, why should my government have more privacy than me?

because their brains think they are uber-men,

in ideal democracy gov. serve society and tax payers,

but in many cases the one who serve are... taxpayers, they are beaten when they protest , they are shot, they are arrested,

humanind forget that goverment was set in republic to serve taxpayers, not vice versa,

vice versa was in feudalism, when kings owned land and people on this land like things , we killed kings in past to be republic (French Revoluion, 1917 communist revolution) and to have state serving citizens, not citizens serving state,

our gov, our police in many countries forget that they serve us from our tax money, they thing we are their owned things to work for their limousins

[mrcash2009 0]

http://rt.com/usa/prism-floyd-nsa-surveillance-723/

Firefox plug-in warns users of NSA surveillance

"I was really interested in the fact that, although the PRISM leaks were a shock to many of us, we pretty much already kind of know we're being surveiled a lot of the time and giving away so much data," he said.

Walking out of a briefing this Wednesday, Rep. Loretta Sanchez (D-California) said, "What we learned in there is significantly more than what is out in the media today,†and described her reaction as “astounded.†Sen. Rand Paul (R-Kentucky) said the program “represents an outrageous abuse of power and a violation of the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution,†and the American Civil Liberties Union has sued the government with a similar complaint filed in federal court.

Something for all you nutter, paranoid, anti government ... ummm, sorry I cant quite find any more cliche's to post .... people :) I joke of course.

BTW the 192 comments, thats 192 reports pulled out from the datamining to make cases, where in this does it say they knew exactly what to mine and found 192 reports without passing by anything unrelated? Dear me.

Edited June 16, 2013 by mrcash2009

[Tonci87 163]

Holly shit, what where they expecting to face to go in with (silenced!) assault rifles like that?!

[Sealife 22]

Holly shit, what where they e2xpecting to face to go in with (silenced!) assault rifles like that?!

This ?

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/terminal05/2012/1/21/16/enhanced-buzz-26160-1327182149-16.jpg

[mrcash2009 0]

Holly shit, what where they expecting to face to go in with (silenced!) assault rifles like that?!

Indeed all that for pretty much nothing hes getting access back to the data too.

Mind you its all "on the job training" & show factor. Now imagine an officer ID'ing what he 'thought' was a weapon, he could be dead as well as everything about this mess. I think he did the best thing, and not "react" to them, becuase thats would have been perfect. That way he could have been shot, or killed and then never been able to defend himself (legal), and I bet the story would have been very different about his case and the ripple effect from it for everyone else.

Edited June 20, 2013 by mrcash2009

[mrcash2009 0]

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=EF9BC1BF-34EB-4168-8735-A95FE2F48D05

Even as he defends controversial government surveillance programs, the head of the National Security Agency is asking Congress for another authority sure to inflame critics — legal immunity for companies that help the feds fight cyberattackers.

Interesting, as this would be based on everything they have as intel being fool proof and no mistakes could happen, seeing the scope of what can be done with the legislation.

[nodunit 397]

OK so it will not affect me and with 99.999999% also unaffected by PRISM, whats the problem? If its some future/proposed thing why not detail that instead of something which seems benign to anything except a few hundred criminals/ terrorists?

I asked why it was a problem and all I get back is 'its the government', 'it cant be trusted','it doesnt have the right'. All I an conclude is that some people are anti goverment for unspecified reasons. Well all I can see is government doing what it is supposed to do, protecting its citizens. If terrorists were allowed to kill without measures to prevent or capture them, there would be a huge public outcry demanding exactly what PRISM is.

We dont live in a eutopia so your policies arent practical in a real world sense.

There is a wide gap between anti government and distrusting.

But you are right...we US citizens would made a public outcry to be protected by our government, the same one that would willingly take away our abilities to protect ourselves.

We may not live in a utopia where we can trust everyone, but how well do people cope to living in a world of fear just the same. How much will that fear grip the common person, what standard will they accept, where does the security end? Is it a battle that can be won.

Senator Ron Wyden questions director of national intelligence James Clapper in a Senate hearing in March. Clapper has denounced revelations in the media that phone and internet records have been collected on a mass scale.

He says in this video that maybe people got spied "inadvertently".......LOL

For a speaker he sure does have a strong tell.

Edited June 20, 2013 by NodUnit