A workable compromise for the locking issue - input needed

[.kju 3245]

This change is not about realism. How came you think it is?

It is to improve gameplay - especially in PvP.

And it still retains the current system for those that prefer that.

PS: The current system is unrealistic for most weapons that have it in arma;

so yes it would also make it more realistic to drop it for those weapons.

Feel free to make complex, realism focused suggestions for A3;

but this is the A2 forum and a complex change is unrealistic to happen for A2.

[sickboy 13]

The point is that a full solution requires mods, or improved engine.

So this thread is about a quick (and dirty?) workaround that is not ideal, but better than current situation caused by much overpowered weapon systems due to the tab lock.

[sakura_chan 9]

What if you kept the cannons at canlock= 2, but severely reduced the range at which you could target something? Or simply remove the lock graphic so you have to rely on manual locking (right mouse button) to select your target. Without the lock/target icon you wouldn't have any idea where your target was even if you tab targeted it, but your guns could still track it at range.

edit

Just tried it, it works very well, I can't magically find targets. I can still lock on to tanks, you know you are locked because the range selector goes to auto. Any idea how to disable the range and unit type text that is still there? How come that shows up even in veteran mode?

edit nvm got it.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Sakura_Chan

[.kju 3245]

I made such addon to disable to icon/cursor; however being defined in config it is a static

change and therefore not affected by difficulty settings.

Less radius is also no good approach. Less abuse is still abuse.

To retain FCS / auto gun lead is not something people need; some even prefer it to be gone/disabled.

[sakura_chan 9]

To retain FCS / auto gun lead is not something people need; some even prefer it to be gone/disabled.

If you want pre-WWII aiming that's your business, just don't expect BIS to swallow it.

[.kju 3245]

It is not removed in the game. With the suggestion those who want it have no need to worry.

All remains as it is with AutoReloadAT active. What is your problem?

[kotov12345 10]

Tested with latest beta A10 and SU34 with ai gunner.

Really not difficult to destroy targets.Press * to get freelook and click on mouse to lock target and fire rocket.At least will be some kind of job.

Possible problem - I don't have mouse on screen in my VET mod settings - so clicking in approx location of center of screen.

May be remove red dots for ground targets - keep them white.We even got ticket here.

Will be simulation absents of friend foe recognition system for ground units.

For Future will be nice to have some kind of small radar/screen/panel with HEAT/FLIR view with possibility to lock targets by clicking on their marks.

[-=seany=- 5]

I would imagine this is very hard for BIS to change. They made slight changes to the locking system from OFP to Arma1 and I wasn't that impressed to be honest.

One thing about TAB lock is that it is not always simulating the weapons system. If your in an AH64 (or other 2 seat vehicle) with an AI gunner, then the current system works as well as could be expected. TAB lock in this instance is you (the pilot etc) giving instructions to the gunner, not actually the weapons. In this case it makes sense.

You can see why when you think about how you would have to get the AI to engage a target with out TAB functionality - Key : "F2", "2", scroll through list with "0", find target, hope it's the right one and press it's "#" key, now command fire. Not exactly fun when your try to fly and watch for enemy etc in the heat of battle.

If they can fix it by coming up with some thing intuitive that still allows you to use AI as gunners in the same way then fine.

We have always had a game that simulates everything (vehicle, on foot, in air, on sea etc) in a kind of "light" fashion. And I don't mind this, the game is not a fully blown simulator of everything (probably for a good reason). I love sims and play DCS A10, KA50, rise of Flight etc. But, I just understand that there is only so much realism (eg weapons systems) a game of Arma's scope can achieve.

[Beagle 684]

But, I just understand that there is only so much realism (eg weapons systems) a game of Arma's scope can achieve.

But is is also a fact that the situation got worse with Arrowhead, not better.

[Bee8190 10]

Wonderful idea and PVP you deserve a cookie mate ;)

I hated it since day one and if theres anything that can change this Im all for it.

I've missed the kju's suggestion but wheres the problem of keeping TAB/lock for SP and manual guidence of missiles for MP?

[domokun 515]

Wonderful idea and PVP you deserve a cookie mate ;)

I hated it since day one and if theres anything that can change this Im all for it.

I've missed the kju's suggestion but wheres the problem of keeping TAB/lock for SP and manual guidence of missiles for MP?

Hear! Hear!

I support this motion!

[kotov12345 10]

also important issue.

I suggest restrict manual locking as well to for targets our of optical view.

in other word - if you cant see target visually you cant lock it.Logically you cant lock target clicking randomly unless target is visible or at least inside of optical view distance.

[[frl]myke 14]

also important issue.

I suggest restrict manual locking as well to for targets our of optical view.

in other word - if you cant see target visually you cant lock it.Logically you cant lock target clicking randomly unless target is visible or at least inside of optical view distance.

Don't touch BVR fighting capabilities. ArmA 2 isn't a Flightsim and never will be so the system is good as it is, speaking for planes/choppers. Unless you can introduce a system that gives realistic target ident procedures at hand. If i have a AGM-65, i don't expect it to lock only on a few hundred meters.

[max power 21]

Like I said in another thread, I think you should be able to lock on to all targets beyond identification range or none. If you allowed it would stop players from identifying targets with 'tab', but it would also open the door for a lot of TKing.

[[frl]myke 14]

Like I said in another thread, I think you should be able to lock on to all targets beyond identification range or none. If you allowed it would stop players from identifying targets with 'tab', but it would also open the door for a lot of TKing.

Blue on blue shouldn't be avoided by any game mechanics but by Brain 2.1 ;)

As for now, at a certain range a target is marked as "unknown". In this case, TAB should select such a target and a guided weapon should lock onto it. Just when you get closer, the selected target get's identified more accurate. At a certain point it should differ between friend or foe. Target should remain selected but weapon would not lock onto it or discard previous lock status.

So either you know that there aren't friendly forces in the area you get a locked target and you might engage a unknown lock, or you close up until you get a definite ident of the target.

Or you feel lucky and risk a blue on blue incident.

[kotov12345 10]

Myke;2070986'] If i have a AGM-65' date=' i don't expect it to lock only on a few hundred meters.[/quote']

read internet how you can target this rocket

---------- Post added at 09:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:51 AM ----------

Like I said in another thread, I think you should be able to lock on to all targets beyond identification range or none. If you allowed it would stop players from identifying targets with 'tab', but it would also open the door for a lot of TKing.

tk not related to problem.

Main problem is to lock/hit/kill target either you or someone else or realistic device should be able to see,recognize ,track and lock target.

Firing into green or red squares it not my peace of bread and absolutely not logical.

Also if you not read carefully we are talking about only for veteran settings.

[dm 9]

Firing into green or red squares it not my peace of bread and absolutely not logical.

I hate to [have to keep] tell[ing] you, but thats how it works for radar guided missiles... You lock onto a little coloured square on your radar screen and fire at it.

[[frl]myke 14]

read internet how you can target this rocket

Electro-optical on models A & B

Imaging IR on models D, G & F

laserguided on model E (LOAL)

Effective range: 16km

max range: 27km

Images from D version can be zoomed by factor 3x and factor 6x.

Don't tell me ever again to read something about weapon systems as i probably read a lot about them.

Back to topic: besides the lock abilities, adjusting velocity is aswell mandatory IMHO as almost all missiles are screwed up regarding this point.

[max power 21]

tk not related to problem.

Actually, it is. Right now tab locking acts as a super IFF and only locks on to active enemies. But, BIS needs to think about its multi-player experience when it's considering what to do with a feature like this. Right now, you can just missile spam from across the map and destroy every enemy nearby. If they changed the settings, players would then be destroying everything unidentified nearby. Are players smart/careful enough to handle that? Some of them are...

[.kju 3245]

The super simplified auto IFF is a problem, yet overall a small one to the power and simplicity of tab locking in general.

I cannot understand how some can argue that is realistic. It is not.

Sure the basics are in modern system similar, yet no way that simplistic and powerful.

[dm 9]

I fail to see how just removing it completely is a workable COMPROMISE either...

[sickboy 13]

For starters it's not removed completely as you can switch it through difficulty option.

The idea is a compromise, that means it's probably not ideal.

The idea is also that it should work out of the box in the game, without mods, so this compromise switchable through difficulty option, so that guys who want it can still play with it, and guys who dont want it, can disable it.

Anything 'better' seems not going to make it in the game for OA, or requires mods, so this compromise might be the best possibility for OA which might be a trivial change to make in code.

[.kju 3245]

Did you actually read the suggestion DM?

It is of course not removed for guided missiles.

[Bee8190 10]

Cards on table gents;

Speaking for my self here, I could't care less if tab is working just as it is IIRL.The speed and accuracy you can fire and forget the missiles is just retarded. ( as implemented )

Without prior painting, the missile should never lock, period.

One of those things I'd happily give up for the gameplay, in the end, still just a game.Speaking of which one of those things that makes it look gamey is exactly tab issue, at least in my book.

About same as is climbing hills ( not mountains :P ) by 8km/hr in linebacker or similar.

While it may be close to IRL speeds, how exactly player benefit from climbing hills by 8km/hr instead of, say 30km/hr??

Contributes to realism nothing but pain in the ass, thats about it.

The point im making; sacrifice some ultra realistic features for the gameplay sake and let players use more teamwork and skill.If that means they might Tk each other, thats noones problem, only skilled pilots and gunners make it to the sky, just as its IIRL

[On_Sabbatical 11]

Are you serious about BVR ?? :D :D

Where is the radar on plane's instrument ? and where are long range missiles ?

Besides,the biggest map we have is very small for this mode.

About same as is climbing hills ( not mountains :P ) by 8km/hr in linebacker or similar.

While it may be close to IRL speeds, how exactly player benefit from climbing hills by 8km/hr instead of, say 30km/hr??

Contributes to realism nothing but pain in the ass, thats about it.

Let's stay on topic dude .

PvPscene's workaround is good,but if BIS could work on a better solution either for arma 2 or arma 3 it would be better.

Edited December 12, 2011 by On_Sabbatical