God

[timmy 0]

happy 400th post, thread.

oh, ill add a coment, so this post wont be spam

i believe in god.

[ale2999 0]

God lives and rules in MY life let him rule in yours too!

[Shabadu 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ale2999 @ June 27 2002,10:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">God lives and rules in MY life    let him rule in yours too!<span id='postcolor'>

Completely and utterly insane.

Unless you was joking of course.

[Oligo 1]

Just a thought I had yesterday:

During human history, we have worshipped many many gods. And quite frequently, we have sacrificed animals and sometimes even humans to these gods. Our sacrifices ascending to the skies on the sacrificial pyres, we prayed for cure for sickness and for a long and good life. It is a matter of faith, whether those gods answered to any of these countless prayers we sent to them. And it is also a matter of opinion, whether those sacrifices made any difference to the gods or not.

Today we still sacrifice animals, but today we sacrifice them to science. We make these sacrifices with hopes of cure for sicness and for a long and good life. And unlike the gods of old, this "god" indeed has answered to some prayers with documented certainty. There has been cures for sicknesses. There is a better and longer life for us westerners. Furthermore, we know that the sacrifices of the animals have not been in vain, because without their sacrifice, these benefits would not have been reaped. It is conforting to know that although we still sacrifice life for greater good of other life, these sacrifices do not go for nothing, like somebody might argue they went in the past.

Maybe there will be a time, when sacrifices are not needed. But that time has not come yet.

"Without pain, without sacrifice, we wouldn't have anything." -Tyler Durder-

[Shabadu 0]

Please, I hate when people try and drag science into the category of religion. Science is dedicated to common sense and developing an understanding. Religion assumes and does not include any common sense.

[Oligo 1]

Which is definitely not what I am trying to do (drag science to the same category with religion). I just pointed out that resources previously allocated for useless worship are now being wisely used for something that actually makes "profit". We have actually managed to do something intelligent for a change.

[Shabadu 0]

Ah, well then carry on by all means. I suppose my poit still stands but I apologise for thinking you were a party to it.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Well if ya let God rule your life it will be alot better, I am not thebest of the best of Christian I will admit. I am a lazy bum who does not deserve salvation but through the grace of God I have been granted enternal life.

[Shabadu 0]

Please please please tell me you're joking!

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Why would I? And sience is a better god? God has awnsered prayers,and when God heels ya He does the best job. God has done alot more than science ever will, i.e. creating world and every thing in it. God will always awnser prayers, He may say no but He wills till awnser them. There is one prayer God will never say no too and that is the prayer of salvation!

[Ruud van Nistelrooy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ June 27 2002,22:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why would I? And sience is a better god? God has awnsered prayers,and when God heels ya He does the best job. God has done alot more than science ever will, i.e. creating world and every thing in it. God will always awnser prayers, He may say no but He wills till awnser them. There is one prayer God will never say no too and that is the prayer of salvation!<span id='postcolor'>

I once prayed to god that Man Utd would win the Premiership this year. They didn't, in fact they came third. I'm pretty sure quite a few people have prayed for world peace. I'm also sure people prayed there wouldn't be a second big brother, and i'm pretty sure people pray constantly for food, and cures for disease.

If you think about - 'God' has performed fuck all miracles. Obviously, he turned water into wine, and he made that river split in two so he cross or something, but, that is probably a load of bollox (unless you believe the sad group of people who wrote the bible).

Science has done mirculous things - cloning, GM foods, Nuclear Bombs, disease cures (how many times has god cured a disease for us? eh?) and etc... I mean, you may think some of these suck, but hey, i'd rather science came up for a cure for cancer rather than just giving some bloke the power touch people up and say they have been cured of their various problems, which is the kind of miracle god seems to like to give people. The conclusion of this - god, if he exists, does make miracles, but they completly suck ass compared to the miricales science produces.

Btw - science has also come up with a very believable and feasible explantaion for the creation of various things in space. Myabe not how life was created, but hey, i'd rather wait for that one than believe that all life was derived from two humans ripped from one of gods ribs

The bible doesn't really say how the universe was created, rather it just gives a pretty pathetic and laughable explanation saying it was all created through magic

[Placebo 28]

My Mum has always been a religious person, having a strong faith and being a regular church goer etc. After having my sister and myself her health suffered until she had a couple of heart attacks, then in 1993 my Dad was killed in an accident, there is only one thing that kept my Mum alive after that and it was her faith. My Dad was her cornerstone, her foundation, she relied on him for everything, before my Dad died she'd never even signed a check before. She came through that, she's still with us, still strong, still healthy, still believing, I don't know what is up there watching over us but I know that my Mum's faith in it is the reason I have one parent to day and not none.

Also I look at it this way, yes I believe in God and Heaven and such things, people want to put me down for things like that, tell me I'm stupid or whatever, well I think of it this way, for the 21 years of my life that my Dad was around he was probably the most important person in my life, I still miss him today at 29 as I did the day he died, and yet people want to turn around and tell me I'm wrong and stupid for believing or hoping that somehow, somewhere my Dad's spirit and soul is still alive somewhere, whether in heaven, whether some other kind of further subconscious, well all I can say to those people who try to mock the thought of our loved ones still existing somewhere is fuck you

(For the record this isn't aimed at any single person who has posted in this thread, occasionally I just like a lil rant to prove that I am indeed after all human)

And remember tears make you stronger.

[ale2999 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Shabadu @ June 27 2002,10:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ale2999 @ June 27 2002,10:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">God lives and rules in MY life    let him rule in yours too!<span id='postcolor'>

Completely and utterly insane.

Unless you was joking of course.<span id='postcolor'>

well I was not joking and I am not insane. I think that I am a really rational person. To me it just doesnt make sense that life has no meaning and that we live by chance......

I am not joking but God saved me, he healed me and did miracles in my life. Let me share this one with u. My parents are from nigeria but as we lived in italy we went there on vacation every 1nce in awhile. When I went there I got celebral malaria and I went into a coma. (This is Nigeria we r talking about remember). My dad told me that the overheard the doctor talking with the nurse saying that I was done. My mum gathered many and many ppl to pray for my healing and I got healed. If this happened in a 1st world country I would have thought that medicine saved me, but I know that God did. It was in coma for 4 days btw, so I wasnt sleeping or anything. Untill u c God in action u might not understand, but I know that God will send in ur way someone who can set the example for you all

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ June 27 2002,16:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My Mum has always been a religious person, having a strong faith and being a regular church goer etc. After having my sister and myself her health suffered until she had a couple of heart attacks, then in 1993 my Dad was killed in an accident, there is only one thing that kept my Mum alive after that and it was her faith. My Dad was her cornerstone, her foundation, she relied on him for everything, before my Dad died she'd never even signed a check before. She came through that, she's still with us, still strong, still healthy, still believing, I don't know what is up there watching over us but I know that my Mum's faith in it is the reason I have one parent to day and not none.

Also I look at it this way, yes I believe in God and Heaven and such things, people want to put me down for things like that, tell me I'm stupid or whatever, well I think of it this way, for the 21 years of my life that my Dad was around he was probably the most important person in my life, I still miss him today at 29 as I did the day he died, and yet people want to turn around and tell me I'm wrong and stupid for believing or hoping that somehow, somewhere my Dad's spirit and soul is still alive somewhere, whether in heaven, whether some other kind of further subconscious, well all I can say to those people who try to mock the thought of our loved ones still existing somewhere is fuck you

(For the record this isn't aimed at any single person who has posted in this thread, occasionally I just like a lil rant to prove that I am indeed after all human)

And remember tears make you stronger.<span id='postcolor'>

God loves you!! That's why he killed your family!!

</sarcasm>

[Placebo 28]

Hmm yes I always laugh when people make jokes about the death of those I love.......

[Warin 0]

I am not a believer... I am agnostic.

I do not deny the possibility that there may be a god... I just dont believe the way many people do.

I've read a lot of people here try to say that religion is for people who are foolish, or people who have some deep seated need to have something to believe in.

I believe that true faith is a very difficult thing to have. Someone like Placebos Mum, or Ale2999 have faith in something because it sustains them and nurtures them. And that can never be wrong. On the other hand, I know a great many people who go to church but have nothing even remotely resembling true faith.

And that is where the line comes for me. I think it's wrong to believe something for the sake of expediency... not because you have true faith.

And the simple fact is that for every true believer that I know, I know a dozen Sunday Christian Hypocrites.

And that makes me sad and angry.

[WKK Gimbal 0]

I think it's a good thing if people can use faith to help them through a crisis or make them strong. Actually I think it's fantastic.

When I have been critical during this thread, it has been aimed at those who do not accept anyone who believes otherwise than themselves. I think it's good if someone finds hope in their god, nomatter what shape or form, but I think it's bad when they demand that everyone else must believe exactly the same or "burn in hell". Why cant they just be satisfied with believing it for themselves and not care that others have THEIR beliefs? I just don't understand that part... I think it's more arrogance than true belief.

[Placebo 28]

Religious intolerance certainly does seem to be more prevalent among the religious than the non religious

[Blink Dog 0]

God doesn't exist if he did this forum would not exist. Bleeorg!

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Well there is a God, weather you believe it or not. People should worship however they want to, weather it is alaha, buddaha, or a cd burner. But like I have siad before without trusting in the Lord Jesus you will not go to Heaven, it is the job of the Christians to tell others, and I admit I haven't done a very good job. Jesus does love you, He died for you. God loves you so much he gave His only sons life for you, what other God has done so much for a person? God has done alot more than science, if somebody gave me a chocie between God and science I would pick God. A lady in my church got sick and needed a kidney transplant real bad, she was so sick her skin was turning colors. People of the Church paryed for her and she got a kidney that matched very very quickly! God amswered our prayers with a yes that time!

[Ruud van Nistelrooy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ale2999 @ June 28 2002,02:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Shabadu @ June 27 2002,10:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ale2999 @ June 27 2002,10:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">God lives and rules in MY life    let him rule in yours too!<span id='postcolor'>

Completely and utterly insane.

Unless you was joking of course.<span id='postcolor'>

well I was not joking and I am not insane. I think that I am a really rational person. To me it just doesnt make sense that life has no meaning and that we live by chance......

I am not joking but God saved me, he healed me and did miracles in my life. Let me share this one with u. My parents are from nigeria but as we lived in italy we went there on vacation every 1nce in awhile. When I went there I got celebral malaria and I went into a coma. (This is Nigeria we r talking about remember). My dad told me that the overheard the doctor talking with the nurse saying that I was done. My mum gathered many and many ppl to pray for my healing and I got healed. If this happened in a 1st world country I would have thought that medicine saved me, but I know that God did. It was in coma for 4 days btw, so I wasnt sleeping or anything. Untill u c God in action u might not understand, but I know that God will send in ur way someone who can set the example for you all <span id='postcolor'>

So god will rescue one bloke from disease, but he won't cure all those millions upon millions of people with cancer/aids or whatever.

Religion makes people feel special, and in order to maintain this feeling that you are indeed above other people (because god loves you) you dedicate your life to the cult, hence making your life worse (since you won't do anything you feel will make god hate you - which is pretty much everything). I mean, if was god, and some dude dedicated his life to him and payed for my messengers (vicars, popes etc...) ivory backscratchers i wouldn't send that dude to hell just because he thought of stealing a pen from work.

btw - let me share this one with you. I once had a tooth ache, a really, really bad tooth ache. My mum, being a ex-dentist, told me i would definatly need to see a dentist about it to get it sorted out. I didn't see a dentist. In fact, the whole thing was gone in under 2 days. Did god get rid of my toothache? obviously he did because my mum in all her wisdom said i HAD to go the dentist. Actually, i didn't even consider god cured me, in fact, the thought never even came close to entering my mind. Simply because i think this god idea is a load of bollox. Despite the fact i had a 'miraculous' recovery from my toothache.

[Oligo 1]

First of all, it's fine by me if somebody believes in something. If they get strength from it, ok. Anything to help people crawl through life is ok.

Duke, you preach and preach, but one of your basic assumptions is wrong. You assume that people want to be saved. While this might be true for some people, it certainly is not true for all people. Did you know that some people (like me) do not want an eternal life or a place in heaven? Did you know that some people do not want some divine being watching and judging over them? Did you know that some people like the idea that their lives are influenced merely by chance and all crap that life thrown your way just happened to happen?

I do not want an eternal life in heaven nor hell. When I die, I just want to cease to exist. A fitting end for an intelligent animal, I think. So preacher boy Duke, what you are offering me does not interest me one bit.

[Ruud van Nistelrooy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ June 27 2002,23:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My Mum has always been a religious person, having a strong faith and being a regular church goer etc. After having my sister and myself her health suffered until she had a couple of heart attacks, then in 1993 my Dad was killed in an accident, there is only one thing that kept my Mum alive after that and it was her faith. My Dad was her cornerstone, her foundation, she relied on him for everything, before my Dad died she'd never even signed a check before. She came through that, she's still with us, still strong, still healthy, still believing, I don't know what is up there watching over us but I know that my Mum's faith in it is the reason I have one parent to day and not none.

Also I look at it this way, yes I believe in God and Heaven and such things, people want to put me down for things like that, tell me I'm stupid or whatever, well I think of it this way, for the 21 years of my life that my Dad was around he was probably the most important person in my life, I still miss him today at 29 as I did the day he died, and yet people want to turn around and tell me I'm wrong and stupid for believing or hoping that somehow, somewhere my Dad's spirit and soul is still alive somewhere, whether in heaven, whether some other kind of further subconscious, well all I can say to those people who try to mock the thought of our loved ones still existing somewhere is fuck you

(For the record this isn't aimed at any single person who has posted in this thread, occasionally I just like a lil rant to prove that I am indeed after all human)

And remember tears make you stronger.<span id='postcolor'>

I know that is a sensitive issue, but thats a great example of just how much religion is a plague to the world. You mum lives in terror of going to hell or getting sick with no support from god... She could never dream of losing her faith simply because she is shit scared to do it, she just can't, even if god in all his glory seems to have taken a massive dump on her life.

I wouldn't want to live in complete and utter fear of a god who doesn't exist, personally i can only see that as a rubbish life.

[Shabadu 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ June 27 2002,22:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why would I? And sience is a better god? God has awnsered prayers,and when God heels ya He does the best job. God has done alot more than science ever will, i.e. creating world and every thing in it. God will always awnser prayers, He may say no but He wills till awnser them. There is one prayer God will never say no too and that is the prayer of salvation!<span id='postcolor'>

Please, don't put science and god in the same sentence. Besides where is the evidence that God has done anything? And don't say it's all there in the bible because a one and a half thousand year old book can hardly be expected to hold the truth. Especially when influenced by religion.

[Shabadu 0]

You cannot believe in religion and be a rational person. I mean religion was invented, it only exists in the mind, by some people a couple of thousand years ago to explain why we are here and what we are doing here, simply because they were too short sighted to appreciate that it is possible that we simply are.

Religious hatred has come about because these people refused to believe that they got it wrong and so we have conflict such as India/Pakistan and Israel/Palestine.

Also going back to non-rational, how can a protestant christian, the head of whom's church being the Queen, think that we shouldn't have a queen? Rational? I don't think so.