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First, i ask that no one bash another religion.  You may criticize its practices, seek answers, but no insults.

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Seeing how 95% of the world's population believe in some form of a superior being, it sparked my attention as to what exactly do these people think God really is.

With the breakthroughs that science makes on a daily basis, I find that more and more young people don't worship.  I remember my great-grandmother going to church every Sunday even though she was an astounding 98 years old.  My parents attended church in a regular pattern in their early years, but apparently they stopped.  As for me, well, aside from those 3-4 times I actually prayed that's pretty much it.

Some argue that while more and more people each year don't worship, they still maintain a certain connection to their religion.  Thus, ultimately, one day religion will be a thing of the past.

Others on the other hand argue just the opposite.  That despite science's intervention, religion will continue to play a major role in our lives.

Personally, I don't pray to God every night, I don't attend church, but I do celebrate Christmas, Easter and other Christian holidays, thus I am Christian in nature, though probably not the best one out there : )

In the end, the question arises, is God really there ?  Or is he merely a manifestation of our ancestors to have something superficial to believe in.  Someone they'd pray to for help, for salvation.  Someone who had all the answers albeit not too willing to give them up.

I once heard a George Carlin show, where he made a speech on religion.  While somewhat humorous, I feel he made a couple of quite valid points.  Here's a transcript:

Religion is nothing but mind control. Religion is just trying to control your mind... control your thoughts. So they're gonna tell you some things you shouldn't say because they're... "sins".

And besides telling you things you shouldn't say, religion is gonna suggest to you something you ought to be saying...

Here's something you ought to say the first thing you wake up in the morning... Here's something you ought to say just before you go to sleep at night... Here's something we always say on the third Wednesday in April after the first full moon in Spring at 4 o'clock when the bells ring.  Religion is always suggesting things you ought to be saying.

Since most people in this world have a weak mind, they are easily swayed into such things.  Why do you think those envelopes that say "You are a millionaire !" are mailed to the elderly for the most part ?  They are lonely, bored, and are easily pulled into such hoaxes.

I'm not saying religion is a hoax, though over the millennia it surely has shown us just how improper it can be.  At one point church sold the so called "pardons" (if I remember correctly), which, after purchasing they would serve to forgive one of your sins.  Everyone has always sought only to fulfill their best interests, their financial security, their future.  People have always been taken advantage of in promise of "heaven after death", in promise of "eternal happiness", in promise of "God's infinite love" for all mankind.

Are we to re-evaluate the biblical publishings ?  Are we to implement thousand-year-old teachings and practices into our everyday lives because they are so right, they can't even be questioned ? Are we expected to believe that by not attending some building in which a few sculptures rest, every Sunday singing songs and speaking well-organized patterns of words we will end up going to "hell" on the judgement day ?

Look at the latest scandals regarding child abuse from the Catholic church.  These are the men who chose, for their life-long goal, to be preachers of God ?  To obey his rules fully ?  

I'm not only talking about Christianity.  Orthodox Jews wear long black coats, even in summer when the temperatures reach 42*Celsius.  There are millions of them, and they all believe that to be right.  Surely enough they sweat greatly, feel very uncomfortable, but it's all for a good religious cause.

Are humans, by nature so weak-minded, that they continously fill their brain with magical ideas of faith only to have some sort of superintelligent entity serve as a mentor ?

Religion has kept many from committing suicide, from committing crime and other evil deeds, yet on the contrary it has also sparked numerous wars in which millions perished.

So by believing in God, is one bound to associate with a particular religion ?  

Personally, when I view the awe greatness and balance of the Universe, everything from electrons to the mightiest of Galaxy clusters, and all the laws that govern them, I can't help but think that perhaps some sort of intelligence is behind it.  Call it God if you will, but it's quite difficult to imagine such things evolving by themselves, something must have set them in motion. To think that we are here today, typing on our keyboards, viewing these words on our cathode-ray tubes which project data that travels at 300,000km/sec, when we all evolved from a primitive, single-celled organism that populated this planet in its primordial stages is nothing short of inspiring.

Perhaps this is where science and religion meet, perhaps not. Perhaps the Universe, being as it is has always been there, and always will be. After all, the life-long questions in the likes of "Who created God" or "Who created time" are still puzzling, and even philosophers and scientists who spend their lifetimes seeking the answers end up no closer in the end than when they first began. Or perhaps, the Universe itself is the God, maybe we just lack the sense to detect him.

I do believe in God, though not in the form of a big invisible grandpa with white hair and beard who hovers up in the clouds constantly "hearing" and "seeing" all that goes on.  For God is that which holds the answers our kind has spent its entire existence seeking.  Our primitive little brains are quite possibly incapable of comprehending what/who God is.

Who knows, maybe one day, being that the human race actually survives this technological/sociological/political struggle will evolve to such an advanced state that we'll become only energy. Perhaps then we will look back at ourselves and laugh (considering we'll still have such emotions). Laugh and think that it is us we've been worshipping all this time.

...Who knows.

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My theory is that man created god.

Man needs to believe that somewhere, somehow there is a higher power that is watching over them, they need a god to thank for the good and even more importantly to blame for the bad, also its much easier to write something off as "godish" than to not understand it at all..

you may consider god as a crutch, something to deflect blame for things on.. floods, fires why does this happen to me WHY? it must be god, it cant just be some random totally spontainous thing, there MUST be a reason..

by nature man dislikes and fears total randomness, and a god is a good way to explain alot of the randomness and unexplainable things.. why did grandma get cancer? well god decided it was her tim.. no marboro decided it was her time but its hard to accept that grandma killed herself, insted lets belive god has taken her somehwere better..

thats just my take..

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Some valid speculations there.

All I can do is try and explain how I feel about it. First of all, I'm not religious. I'm from a christian country, yet I'm convinced that if christ even lived, he was just a charismatic dude turned into an idol by poor people desperate for hope.

And that's what I believe drives all religion. A search for something to fill the eternal emptiness in the human heart. To have someone who understand our every thought. I don't think it's because people are dumb. Animals are dumb, yet they don't show any evidence of worshipping a god.

No, I rather think it's because we are intelligent, yet of social nature. We need to share our thoughts on everything, challenge our intellect and be accepted for our thoughts and ideas. This is the very same reason we hang around this forum. The mind needs communication. The problem is, it's HARD to find someone who will understand everything you feel and think. Here it's tempting to imagine some higher power able to feel your feelings and love you regardless.

Another main factor is reason. Reasons to why accidents and tradegies happen. Why are our loved ones killed, leave us or turn on us? Why are some sick and poor while others are healthy and rich? Believing that all this will be leveled out at the end, that you will be rewarded for your misery, would make it so much easier going through a tough, poor or loveless life.

These are the main things that spawns desire for religion, as I see it.

How this desire for religion later is used or misused by other people is an entirely different matter.

Churches, priests, bibles. Are they just merchandise sold on this "people's longing for a higher meaning"? In many cases I think so.

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I give this thread 2 pages before a full blown biblical shitstorm,

we shall build and arc nordin and we shall take 2 of every type of spammer, for we must repopulate the forum once the flames have vanquished the unworthy!

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

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I will enjoy it. Nothing better than religous people fighting over 2000+ year old books  biggrin.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ June 07 2002,00:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My theory is that man created god.

Man needs to believe that somewhere, somehow there is a higher power that is watching over them, they need a god to thank for the good and even more importantly to blame for the bad, also its much easier to write something off as "godish" than to not understand it at all..

you may consider god as a crutch, something to deflect blame for things on.. floods, fires why does this happen to me WHY? it must be god, it cant just be some random totally spontainous thing, there MUST be a reason..

by nature man dislikes and fears total randomness, and a god is a good way to explain alot of the randomness and unexplainable things.. why did grandma get cancer? well god decided it was her tim.. no marboro decided it was her time but its hard to accept that grandma killed herself, insted lets belive god has taken her somehwere better..

thats just my take..<span id='postcolor'>

Not very often you will be hearing this but: I agree entirely with Wobble.

Man has a need to understand and motivate things. Another point is that as a part of our survival instinct we are very self-centered and have the need of being part of something importrant.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 07 2002,01:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ June 07 2002,00:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My theory is that man created god.

Man needs to believe that somewhere, somehow there is a higher power that is watching over them, they need a god to thank for the good and even more importantly to blame for the bad, also its much easier to write something off as "godish" than to not understand it at all..

you may consider god as a crutch, something to deflect blame for things on.. floods, fires why does this happen to me WHY? it must be god, it cant just be some random totally spontainous thing, there MUST be a reason..

by nature man dislikes and fears total randomness, and a god is a good way to explain alot of the randomness and unexplainable things.. why did grandma get cancer? well god decided it was her tim.. no marboro decided it was her time but its hard to accept that grandma killed herself, insted lets belive god has taken her somehwere better..

thats just my take..<span id='postcolor'>

Not very often you will be hearing this but: I agree entirely with Wobble.

Man has a need to understand and motivate things. Another point is that as a part of our survival instinct we are very self-centered and have the need of being part of something importrant.<span id='postcolor'>

and that's all fine and dandy if it wasn't for the fact that religious people spell trouble.

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yep. god is the leading cause of death in the world, millions and millions of dead assholes because god told them it was a good idea..

Guy one: do you believe in god?

guy two: no

Guy one: *BANG!*

guy one: do YOU believe in god?

guy THREE: yes

guy one: do you believe in MY god?

guy three: no

guy one: *BANG!!* My god has a bigger dick than your god!

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1st Id like to say that JESUS LOVES U AND DIED ON THE CROSS FOR U AND ME.

well, 2nd Id like to say that I believe in God and not in religion. PPl sould stop calling themselves Christians if they are such just by practising Christmas and other religions festivity ( NO OFFENSE TO ANY 1). Christianity is much more than that, its a way of life. U can call yourself a REAL CHRISTIAN when u accept the Lord Jesus Christ as ur personal saviour. We call ourself christians becasue we are followers of Christ Jesus. All that I said isnt made up, but its written in the BIBLE. CAtholic church did lots of mistakes and personaly many catholic just call themselve chatolics but dont even know what it is really about. ( I Am not catholic, but I lived in Italy for 18 years so I now what it is like). Jesus died for u and me and if u dont believe me its recorded even in history that a prohet called Jesus existed. Cmon dont tell me that u guys actually believe that we came from monkeys, asif. Why dont other monkey become human? Are human not the fittest for the planet, the according to evolution all monkey should have extinguish and humans remain. When Darwin went to the galapagos he saw those birds that where the same except for the beeks as they had different food. That was not evoulution, it was adaptation, just like coloured ppl are adapted to the high temperature zone of the planet and plae ppl to the low temp zones of the planet. My mission on this planet is to praise him and let as much ppl that I know aware of HIM. I wish that all of u believed in Him........

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ale2999 @ June 07 2002,01:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Cmon dont tell me that u guys actually believe that we came from monkeys, asif. Why dont other monkey become human? Are human not the fittest for the planet, the according to evolution all monkey should have extinguish and humans remain.<span id='postcolor'>

LOL

sorry, I respect your religion, but this quote makes me puke from laughing.

Dark ages, return to us! You fit our book much better! hehehe

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1st Id like to say that JESUS LOVES U AND DIED ON THE CROSS FOR U AND ME.

tell him thanks next time you pretend to communicate with him.

All that I said isnt made up, but its written in the BIBLE

and if its written in a book IT MUST BE TRUE!

CAtholic church did lots of mistakes and personaly many catholic just call themselve chatolics but dont even know what it is really about.

hmm, purgatory, good money making deal that is "well mam your babie died at birth but it still had its "orignal sin" so in order for it to go to heaven you must pay me XXX dollars to pray it"

kinda like getting a VCR out of hock..

Jesus died for u and me and if u dont believe me its recorded even in history that a prohet called Jesus existed

I know several mexicans name Jesus, did they die for my sins too?

Cmon dont tell me that u guys actually believe that we came from monkeys, asif.

yes its much more logical that an all knowing, all seeing magical being that noone has ever seen created us from thin air..

That was not evoulution, it was adaptation,

better expert than Darwin, you are I see..

is this a joke? or let me rephrase that.. is this supposed to be a joke?

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Fossils have been found around the world that proves evolution is a fact.

As for God all I can say is this.

" Putting on the spectacles of science in expectation to finding the answer to all things signifies inner blindness."

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ale2999 I respect your views and will not bash them, though you may consider ellaborating on your facts further, otheriwise you seem like a poor slave of the church.

God doesn't have to be associated with a particular religion.

God is center and focus of religious faith, a holy being or ultimate reality to whom worship and prayer are addressed. Especially in monotheistic religions, God is considered the creator or source of everything that exists and is spoken of in terms of perfect attributes—for instance, infinitude, immutability, eternity, goodness, knowledge (omniscience), and power (omnipotence). Most religions traditionally ascribe to God certain human characteristics that can be understood either literally or metaphorically, such as will, love, anger, and forgiveness.

Many religious thinkers have held that God is so different from finite beings that he must be considered essentially a mystery beyond the powers of human conception. Nevertheless, most philosophers and theologians have assumed that a limited knowledge of God is possible and have formulated different conceptions of him in terms of divine attributes and paths of knowledge. A range of types, each shading into the other, can be abstracted from this survey. In the monotheism of Judaism and Islam, Holy Being is conceived at its most transcendent and personal level. In the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, an attempt is made to synthesize transcendence and immanence. In the Asian religions considered, the immanence and impersonal nature of Holy Being are stressed (although some forms of Hinduism and Buddhism do not exclude personal aspects of the divine).

Arguments against belief in God are as numerous as arguments for it. Atheists absolutely deny the existence of God. Some, for instance, believe the material universe constitutes ultimate reality; others argue that the prevalence of suffering and evil in the world precludes the existence of a sacred being. Agnostics believe that the evidence for and against the existence of God is inconclusive; they therefore suspend judgment. Positivists believe that rational inquiry is restricted to questions of empirical fact, so that it is meaningless either to affirm or deny the existence of God. We may only suspect.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ChickenHawk @ June 07 2002,01:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Fossils have been found around the world that proves evolution is a fact.

As for God all I can say is this.

" Putting on the spectacles of science in expectation to finding the answer to all things signifies inner blindness."<span id='postcolor'>

yeah well, I agree that some things are better left untouched. An example is love being explained as simple chemical reactions in the brain, to trigger reproduction. This may very well be true, but I *choose* to see it as something more than that. If everything is to be simplified, you might as well lie down and die as the world would be nothing but a cold machine.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">signifies inner blindness."<span id='postcolor'>

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All though, i dont belive in evolution to.It just doenst make sence.We came from monkeys?I mean that is totally dumb. confused.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ChickenHawk @ June 07 2002,01:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">signifies inner blindness."<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

I know, I know. wink.gif

I was simply adding to it, yet I know it was unnecessary.

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Heh as always, a thread like this is turning into a fight? smile.gif

Problem with this argument is, that either side (atheists and those who believe in a higher power) cannot, in any way, prove that they are correct.

In my opinion, the universe is an amazing system, and its hard for me to believe that it would have just happened to born without any "control". Everyting seems so very planned, and everything has its own purpose. But of course, there is the chance that everything was just a coincidence... But when the day comes that I die, I will see if there is god or heaven or hell, so im not up to arquing with anyone on this matter smile.gif

This is what I thought once: If everything in the whole universe follows a certain "natures law" and there was a big bang or someting of which everything was born then if we would have a very powerful computer and information how the universe was born, we could run an accelerated simulation on the universe, zoom in to exactly this moment in the simulation and see ourselves doing exactlyt the same thing in there... And leaving the simulation running we could see to the future... And if we would do that, the people in the simulation would do the same thing. (they would be looking at their own simulation because things there would have happened just the same) So, if we would then change that future we see somehow in purpose, we would be in a parallax of the same thing happening in the simulation, and we would therefore have seen that future instead, not the original one that we changed...

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I also believe that man creates god. I think that the collective belief of those with a true faith are the embodiment of the diety.

I tend to disagree with the concept that Theism is something that wll fade over time. Most churches in the area that I live are doing booming business. I feel that deep down we need something spiritual in our lives. Sadly, the pursuit of stuff has pretty much replaced spiritual awareness in the last 50 years. And a lot of people are finding that the world is a hollow place when you have little spiritual understanding, no matter how much stuff you might have.

Does this mean we should all become Chrisitian or Muslim or Buddhist or Whatever-ist? Not really. It just means that to be happy and fulfilled there needs to be more than a pursuit of money and things. And as people realize that, religions of all flavours will prosper.

Thing is, I cant really make much sense of using a 2,000 year old manual to tell me how to run my life. The bible has some good things to say... but... well..

Not a slam..but the bible says it's ok to keep slaves. It says that working on the sabbath is a stoning offense.

How can any remotely rational person accept the things they want, and cast aside the rest... and then claim to be a true follower of that faith??

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SKULLS_Viper @ June 07 2002,02:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All though, i dont belive in evolution to.It just doenst make sence.We came from monkeys?I mean that is totally dumb. confused.gif<span id='postcolor'>

hehe. 99% of our genes are perfectly matchable to a chimp. Bodyhair, shape of bones, etc is really just a minor thing.

Look at neanderthal skeletons. If you can't see the pattern, you are denying it to yourself because you don't wanna be related to a common animal. You really belive that all animals and then humans are two totally different things? Look at how people behave and you have the proof that it's not so. biggrin.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ June 06 2002,18:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">yep. god is the leading cause of death in the world, millions and millions of dead assholes because god told them it was a good idea..

Guy one: do you believe in god?

guy two: no

Guy one: *BANG!*

guy one: do YOU believe in god?

guy THREE: yes

guy one: do you believe in MY god?

guy three: no

guy one: *BANG!!*  My god has a bigger dick than your god!<span id='postcolor'>

lol, good ol' George Carlin has it right.

-=Die Alive=-

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i beleive in god..but not necessarily Christian.

we are now able see quarks and neutrons and DNAs and other matters that compose this world, but eventually, as we dig in deeper, we would come to the point where something has to start the process that led all the way to point where we have OFP.

so there is something that starts. and to cut that continuous loop, i think god has to be somewhere.

and i find it funny that Wobble bet it'll be 2 pages b4 religious flamewar start...and on 2nd page, i see Wobble going beserk. tounge.gif

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