What the @*#* is China up to?

[Dwarden 1124]

Huge grid array 43.808518,94.439106 (GE coords)

What is this and who made it? By using what equipment (I can't see any human settlements in nearby). Why these lines are perfrectly straight and layered over flat area , mountains and riverbeds too ???

i would say it's really like PELHAM said huge project trying to stop desert expansion (what we see are the 'routes' of vehicles which split each 'cell' of consolidated ground)

again the quality of the available imagery is so miserable it's really hard to tell

the area can be also split into cells for w/e further use tho

[sudayev 27]

According to poster from GE community these lines serve as some sort of orientation for seismic survey, truck with scientific apparatuses move along these lines and collect seismic data. Sounds believable eh ?

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=79464#Post79464

Edited November 17, 2011 by Sudayev
I added link!

[krzychuzokecia 700]

Funny, this morning I had read this thread and in the evening I saw that even serious Polish media* have looked into this matter! :p Do they read Walker's threads at BI Forums?!

According to them it's used to calibrate Chinese spy-satellites - just what DarkXess said.

*"Rzeczpospolita" is one of two biggest Polish newspapers

[PELHAM 10]

Must have some poor quality cameras? Why would you need a calibration mark nearly a mile long when the resolution of most spy satellites is less than 1m?

[sudayev 27]

@krzychu

The whole thing went viral. There are starange chinese grid threads in every forum I visited today. Weird because these images are known in GE community for years

A calibration map ?

http://news.yahoo.com/mysterious-symbols-china-desert-spy-satellite-targets-expert-132005935.html

Edited November 17, 2011 by Sudayev

[max power 21]

Must have some poor quality cameras? Why would you need a calibration mark nearly a mile long when the resolution of most spy satellites is less than 1m?

I think it's not the resolution of the cameras that matter. If I was going to orient an object in space to update its inertial navigation system using a camera, I would put a test pattern on the ground and measure the angles it takes to define the pattern, and compare them to the angles that I'm expecting based on the positioning equipment. Personally, I would use a simpler pattern, but I'm not a rocket scientist, or the designer of spy satellites, or even a navigator.

[PELHAM 10]

The resolution of the cameras do matter if we are considering what this pattern actually is. Why build 2 of these things on the same air weapons test site? 2 overly complex patterns measuring over 1 mile long by 0.5 mile wide when the resolving power of your satellite camera is less than 1m? Why not use a smaller pattern? Why in this day and age use 1960's technology and methods?

You will notice that between the 2 patterns are 3 or 4 runway / airfield targets and several other things plus lots and lots of bomb craters. The runways are marked out in the same stuff. If we look at the pattern marks in isolation it is easy for your mind to wander to fantastic ideas. What you have to do is look closely and look at the surroundings - what is near by?

Many people have remarked about the similarity of the patterns to city street layouts. That is in fact what it is. I said before that the patterns were used for missile tests, specifically to test the guidance systems on ICBM warheads and cruise missiles. Take your mind back to this:

British TV crew films U.S. tomahawk cruise missiles on their way to targets in Baghdad (February 1991)

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bed_1295195819

"The cruise missile was an extraordinary sight during the Gulf War. Correspondents filed reports of these weapons apparently following Baghdad's street plan to find their mark. "

It's a Tomahawk missile flying into Baghdad scanning images of the streets and ground below and comparing them with pre-loaded data for it's terminal guidance.

It's a missile test target folks. The Satellite calibration answer doesn't add up. The missile scans the street pattern and compares it to pre loaded data for terminal guidance.The Chinese can't use GPS, in the event of war the signal would be changed and the accuracy would deviate. Only the US military would know what deviation to program into their weapons - GPS belongs to them.

Here is Walkers 1st image:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=40.452107,93.742118&hl=de&ll=40.447764,93.744299&spn=0.005201,0.010107&num=1&t=h&vpsrc=6&z=17

Zoom out and move left - you will see the runway targets, other targets (blue roofed buildings with holes blown in them) and beyond that another street pattern layout. The whole area is an air weapons test range.

China's cruise missiles are based on Russian designs e.g. the KH-65 Cruise Missile.

"It is powered by a single R95-300 turbofan engine, with pop-out wings for cruising efficiency. It can be launched from both high and low altitudes, and flies at subsonic speeds at low levels (under 110 m/300 ft altitude). After launch, the missile's folded wings, tail surfaces and engine deploy. It is guided through a combination of an inertial guidance system plus a terrain contour-matching guidance system which uses radar and images stored in the memory of an onboard computer to find its target. This allows the missile to guide itself to the target with a high degree of accuracy, with a reported[citation needed] CEP of 15 meters."

I conclude - the patterns in the Chinese Gobi dessert (Xinjiang) are targets to test terminal guidance on cruise missiles and ICBMs.

Edited November 18, 2011 by PELHAM

[batto 17]

Hi, Google Maps Mystery Actually Spy Satellite Targets, Expert Says (Fox News)

[b0b 10]

Ok so if they are bomb targeting ranges/satellite calibration...,

Just West of there, Id really like to know what this is..., you really have to get in close to see weirdness....,

40.446686 90.814648

Looks like a water treatment plant but on close inspection its like 13 miles long with some very weird vehicles ( like 45m long! ) which seem to be harvesting something?. Plus it either looks like moving water/frozen water or something mineral thats blue and static maybe?

Tiberium!!!!!! :D , in all serious tho..,wtf is it.., any ideas?

[sanctuary 19]

I found those white calibration lines interesting, but something intrigued me more :

Zooming, hmm, i think i see where it's going

Indeed

[PELHAM 10]

Hi, Google Maps Mystery Actually Spy Satellite Targets, Expert Says (Fox News)

I know, I've seen that - he's wrong :D. Just shows you that you can't trust anything you read in newspapers.

His waffle further down the page about the Stonehenge radar target is also wrong. It a target for checking the blast radius of conventional warheads, unitary or sub-munition dispenser type.

It's clearer in this picture - you can see the whole weapons range and all the targets. The two street pattern targets are far left and right and the runway targets are central.

Just West of there, Id really like to know what this is..., you really have to get in close to see weirdness....,

40.446686 90.814648

Looks like a water treatment plant but on close inspection its like 13 miles long with some very weird vehicles ( like 45m long! ) which seem to be harvesting something?. Plus it either looks like moving water/frozen water or something mineral thats blue and static maybe?

Tiberium!!!!!! :D , in all serious tho..,wtf is it.., any ideas?

That's well known, it's a potash plant. The blue rectangles are evaporation ponds.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=51039

Edited November 18, 2011 by PELHAM

[b0b 10]

Ah ty PELHAM

[walker 0]

Hi all

So we have established what it is. China's area51. If we had access to satellite views of area51 back in the 70s 80s and 90s we would have seen something similar.

Still I dare say the US security sevices have realised the potential of letting the cloud of human minds on the net do their spotting for them. I expect various nations will gift Google earth hi res satellite images of nations they are interested in finding out about.

I wonder who will create the first android app that let's you get bitcoins for spotting stuff in various Target countries.

Kind Regards walker

Edited November 18, 2011 by walker

[krzychuzokecia 700]

The whole thing went viral. (...) these images are known in GE community for years

That's why I was surprised. Really, my first thought was "Somebody's been reading Walker's News of the Day"!

Must have some poor quality cameras?

Well, remember that Chinese cameras are... made in China :p

About your missile scan theory: it's believable, but isn't it more important for cruise missiles to "know" topology of ground below instead of street plan? Streets painted on the ground are... flat, so to have properly programmed missile Chinese would have to build 1:1 model of the city they want to bomb.

At least, that's what I'm assuming.

[PELHAM 10]

About your missile scan theory: it's believable, but isn't it more important for cruise missiles to "know" topology of ground below instead of street plan? Streets painted on the ground are... flat, so to have properly programmed missile Chinese would have to build 1:1 model of the city they want to bomb.

At least, that's what I'm assuming.

No they don't need to do that - they just need a high resolution radar / IR picture of the target.

Cruise missiles are guided using 3 or 4 different systems.

1. Inertial - gyroscopes

2. Topographical - radar scans of the ground

3. Radar / IR Imaging - The final 500m it is actually looking and comparing the target with a picture in the memory.

4. GPS - USA possible other NATO countries.

The street pattern targets are for the final 500m to test the imaging guidance. The images are taken from spy satellites, overflights, covert surveillance and stored in the missiles memory - it compares what it's IR seeker head sees and compares it with the stored image to find an optimum impact point. It does not matter what the image is, it can be 2D flat on the ground or a 3D structure. The paint on the ground probably creates differences in the IR spectrum and/or radar reflection to simulate the roads etc around a target.

e.g. for the tomahawk

Although most publications list the Tomahawk accuracy at 30 feet the real truth lies in the computer guidance system. Tomahawk is designed to fly through a one meter square window on earth at a predesignated time. The Tomahawk has about a 85% direct hit record over its use in the Gulf war, and further firings since then. Tomahawk uses a combination of GPS (Global Positioning Satellite), TERCOM or a special terrain way-point radar map and two types of terminal guidance systems to place the warhead with pinpoint accuracy, DSMAC and an Infra-red mapper. DSMAC is a high resolution satellite radar image of the target area which the Tomahawk follows to within feet of the intended target. An additional Infra-red scene mapper is also employed for a dual spectrum picture fed to the targeting computer.

Edited November 18, 2011 by PELHAM

[dysta 10]

It's a missile test target folks. The Satellite calibration answer doesn't add up. The missile scans the street pattern and compares it to pre loaded data for terminal guidance.The Chinese can't use GPS, in the event of war the signal would be changed and the accuracy would deviate. Only the US military would know what deviation to program into their weapons - GPS belongs to them.

Correct of the missile testing (and guidance bomb) part. However they're already using their own BeiDao (北斗) satellite system instead of GPS. They still can use the US's GPS system, except with extremely unlikely accuracy.

[eble 3]

Correct of the missile testing (and guidance bomb) part. However they're already using their own BeiDao (北斗) satellite system instead of GPS. They still can use the US's GPS system, except with extremely unlikely accuracy.

Out of interest I've noted a few other GPS systems either in force wor coming on line soon:

In addition to GPS, other systems are in use or under development. The Russian GLObal NAvigation Satellite System (GLONASS) was in use by only the Russian military, until it was made fully available to civilians in 2007. There are also the planned European Union Galileo positioning system, Chinese Compass navigation system, and Indian Regional Navigational Satellite System.

[PELHAM 10]

Interesting to hear about the Chinese and Indian versions - didn't know they were fully working!

[walker 0]

Hi all

It appears some one was very very interested in China's area51. And has spent a great deal of money moving private satellites to observe the site on an awful lot of occasions.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/11/mammoth-mysterious-china/

The footprints of this somebody's interests have revealed a whole lot more strange facilities in the area.

Kind Regards walker

Edited November 19, 2011 by walker

[purepassion 22]

here's an article of a chinese newspaper that once visited these facilities

[dysta 10]

an article of a chinese newspaper that once visited these facilities

I want to say it's old news already. They already tell them it's a place for designated weapon like bomb or missile or such. I found it unimpressed AT ALL no matter how the media or even the satellite owner want to "decrypt" this thing.

[purepassion 22]

thats it ^^

[PELHAM 10]

+1 Old news, they aren't new, it's not China's area 51. People have been looking at this for years and no doubt the CIA / NSA were looking many years before Google Earth came online.

I found 6 year old threads where people are discussing these same pictures.

If you look at aerial ranges used by various air forces across the world you will see strange things and shapes due to target objects, cleared vegetation, and target markings etc in remote locations.

It's more likely that it's a Google conspiracy to get us using Google Earth again lolz.

[max power 21]

...

Why use 1960s technological methods?

Well, if you're using a satellite with 1960s-like technology....?

And why use such large targets? Because they are easy to see from space if you're trying to aim a satellite that's off kilter?

I don't claim to know the answers but I think you think you know more than you actually do. The rationale that this is not a 'secret sight' because it existed a few years ago obviously doesn't stand up to any rational examination.

[PELHAM 10]

Why use 1960s technological methods?

Well, if you're using a satellite with 1960s-like technology....?

They aren't using satellites with 1960's technology......5 mins of research into china's space program and the level of sophistication would tell you that.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/12/china-satellites-idUSL3E7I902220110712

And why use such large targets? Because they are easy to see from space if you're trying to aim a satellite that's off kilter?

I think you had better read up on the flight dynamics of spacecraft. No one has ever used a ground based target for orientation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_dynamics_%28spacecraft%29

If you need to calibrate a camera you don't need a specific target. You simply need an object with known dimensions or a series of known positions on the ground - it can be anything. You can then do calculations relative to the cameras axis and FOV. Targets that are more commonly used are infra-red/thermal targets for calibrating cameras sensitive to heat. This certainly isn't a thermal target.

It also does not make sense to use fixed targets as you would then have to make all your satellites orbit over that target which isn't desirable and probably isn't practical.

Have you seen this picture on the previous page? It shows the whole area with all the targets on the range:

I don't claim to know the answers but I think you think you know more than you actually do. The rationale that this is not a 'secret sight' because it existed a few years ago obviously doesn't stand up to any rational examination.

I didn't say it wasn't secret? I have stated that the site has been known about for many years - search and you will see blogs from 2006. Look above and someone has posted a link from Chinese news. I actually said it wasn't China's Area 51. Area 51 is a secret aircraft test and manufacturing facility. The thing we are discussing is a bombing range. Area 51 is not a bombing range.

Edited November 23, 2011 by PELHAM