Improving the Light Engine| What and How

[Maio 293]

The is now Work In Progress :)

What aspect would you like the team focussing on?

So they are giving pureLight's system a shot :)?

[purepassion 22]

I have no idea :D

Maybe Dwarden can tell us what has come into the teams evaluation so we know what the team is looking in to, without saying "XY will be in the game" and confirming things too early.

[neokika 62]

Current major problems with the light in Arma 2:

- Light points do not cause shadows when hitting objects and terrain (Only the sun and moon do)

- Terrain and Objects do not block light at all

I would also have to disagree about the BF3 example. To me its a perfect example of how the light should not be done in a game, where it doesn't let you see almost a thing, being blind by even the smallest light point. Also, the light doesn't look that good at all in BF3, the best I have experienced yet was Metro 2033.

So they are giving pureLight's system a shot :)?

I see no reason to do so, I guess BI has enough good programmers that can the job themselves. ;)

_neo_

Edited November 30, 2011 by neokika

[purepassion 22]

I agree neo. Those points (especially the missing blocking) are actually important aspects concerning gameplay.

[Maio 293]

I see no reason to do so, I guess BI has enough good programmers that can the job themselves. ;)

_neo_

I'm sure they do mate, but if the only way we will see improvements to the lighting engine in ArmA3 1.0 is a 3'rd partty solution , I welcome it with open arms.

After all, we are the ones at the end of the pipeline :)

[purepassion 22]

if possible and the ROI is right, outsourcing is an excellent way if you have a limited amount of ressources (people). outsourcing gives you time to work on other tasks simultaniously and therefore makes businnes more effective. However it also costs money (suprise, surprise :D)

"Do what you can do best, outsource the rest" ;)

We have already seen this being successfully executed multiple times (DLC Maps, Volumetric Clouds by Simul, Flight Dynamics by RotorLib etc).

As maio said, if the team can find something to use, I think the community would be the last ones rejecting it and saying "Do it on your own" :D

[antoineflemming 14]

Current major problems with the light in Arma 2:

- Light points do not cause shadows when hitting objects and terrain (Only the sun and moon do)

- Terrain and Objects do not block light at all

I would also have to disagree about the BF3 example. To me its a perfect example of how the light should not be done in a game, where it doesn't let you see almost a thing, being blind by even the smallest light point. Also, the light doesn't look that good at all in BF3, the best I have experienced yet was Metro 2033.

I see no reason to do so, I guess BI has enough good programmers that can the job themselves. ;)

_neo_

You're right, BF3's lighting is too overbearing. Wanna see good lighting, check out CryEngine 3!

-_IKqjb9TRY

[neokika 62]

I wasn't saying I do not want 3rd party software, I do think it's a good way to free devs to work on other (more important) tasks.

What I meant was that it's possible that BI is already working on improving the light themselves.

Anyway, probably using something like PureLight would be the way to go if it is possible in a game world like Arma.

@antoineflemming, that looks awesome indeed.

_neo_

[Minoza 11]

...

I would also have to disagree about the BF3 example. To me its a perfect example of how the light should not be done in a game, where it doesn't let you see almost a thing, being blind by even the smallest light point. Also, the light doesn't look that good at all in BF3, the best I have experienced yet was Metro 2033.

I see no reason to do so, I guess BI has enough good programmers that can the job themselves. ;)

_neo_

We've discussed this. You are talking about artist aproach, where they decided to use some nasty FX, lighting engine itself is perfectly fine and on par with CE3.

[Craig_VG 20]

Glad to hear this has become WIP. I hope to see good things in ARMA 3's future, this and a lot of the other features combined make me really excited!

Keep it up BIS!

Craig

[Flash Thunder 10]

Glad to hear this has become WIP. I hope to see good things in ARMA 3's future, this and a lot of the other features combined make me really excited!

Even if its semi completed for the full release they could still finnish things and expand on them in expansions and DLC's of course being free for everyone engine improvements.

Its nice that BIS is using multiple projects to work together on advancing the engine. TKOH RTT hopefully some VBS 2.0 features

I can't wait to see the DX11 graphics work its magic, this game should get a lot of publicity for being a true PC graphics powerhouse.

[reconteam 19]

ArmA2 is still a game that can tax my (now) pretty damn good system, I look forward to being able to play ArmA3 for the 15 seconds before my CPU melts and burns a hole through my case, then the floor.

Good news that they are looking to adjust the light system, I really hope the HDR stuff is adjusted so the lighting inside of vehicles or houses isn't so strange.

[neokika 62]

We've discussed this. You are talking about artist aproach, where they decided to use some nasty FX, lighting engine itself is perfectly fine and on par with CE3.

Hi,

I said the light effects in BF3 is not a good example, and obviously it's an artist choice, I just do not like the final look of it within BF3, so for me, the light there isn't perfectly fine like you say.

_neo_

[Minoza 11]

I'm just trying to draw a line between post FX stuff and lighting engine itself. I never claimed that final result looks fine.

[maddogx 13]

I'm just trying to draw a line between post FX stuff and lighting engine itself. I never claimed that final result looks fine.

This is a very important distinction, and I agree with Minoza on this. If you look at that video where they show the individual steps of rendering a scene in BF3, there is one point (before post FX are applied) that looks absolutely awesome, almost photorealistic. The lighting is truly amazing. Then they put in the excessive lens flares and all that crap, and I just think "Whyyyyy??!".

[roberthammer 582]

This is a very important distinction, and I agree with Minoza on this. If you look at that video where they show the individual steps of rendering a scene in BF3, there is one point (before post FX are applied) that looks absolutely awesome, almost photorealistic. The lighting is truly amazing. Then they put in the excessive lens flares and all that crap, and I just think "Whyyyyy??!".

In EA/DICE lang it is called "Art" :p

[nodunit 397]

We've discussed this. You are talking about artist aproach, where they decided to use some nasty FX, lighting engine itself is perfectly fine and on par with CE3.

Gotta disagree there, BF3's maps are 'baked' where cry engines can be dynamic in their light, no passes or any of that extra stuff needed. Shadows are also another prominent feature. In BF3 buildings will cast shadows but objects won't, just play market row or whatever it is called, explore the halls and see how many lights are "real" lights rather than just glowing.

Looking at the above scene, if you examine interiors in BF3 I can pretty much garuntee that you won't see them in nearly the quantity nor will distance and angle to the light matter in terms of shadow strength.

[Minoza 11]

BF3 maps are baked, but engine itself is fully dynamic, you can see that in the demonstration, also objects do cast AO and probably can cast direct shadows if wanted. Maybe I went a bit too far when stating it's on par with CE3, so thank you for correcting me but it is still pretty good.

[maturin 12]

http://www.waynealden.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/0012.jpg

http://www.waynealden.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/014a.jpg

http://www.waynealden.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/015a.jpg

You don't need over-the-top lighting or fancy tech to make a scene look real. In fact, these shots resemble photographs more than most maxed-out ArmA 2 screenshots, and they're done with ridiculously low-poly models and basic source engine textures. The author explained that he simply typed in two numbers in the daylight config to achieve this.

[Pyronick 21]

http://www.waynealden.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/0012.jpg

http://www.waynealden.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/014a.jpg

http://www.waynealden.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/015a.jpg

You don't need over-the-top lighting or fancy tech to make a scene look real. In fact, these shots resemble photographs more than most maxed-out ArmA 2 screenshots, and they're done with ridiculously low-poly models and basic source engine textures. The author explained that he simply typed in two numbers in the daylight config to achieve this.

Don't forget that the Source engine does have better dynamic shadowing and omnidirectional dynamic lighting. It's softer and is affected by any polygonal object and even sprites. Hell, the alpha channel used in sprites affect shadows.

It is some what fake, but in the end the effect is what matters.

Edited December 1, 2011 by SgtH3nry3

[On_Sabbatical 11]

Hi, a new game will require a much better graphic

Nowadays,it's more about optimization than graphics ...

[Dead3yez 0]

Nowadays,it's more about optimization than graphics ...

Or maybe both and always has been? :d:

[Craig_VG 20]

Jay Crowe = Tease. :D

Great meet & greet with the #Arma3 team! New lighting tech/HDR is coming along very nicely: warm summer; vibrant night.

Posted by him on twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/leplaisirquitue

Edited December 3, 2011 by bobtom

[Timmoboy 10]

Jay Crowe = Tease. :D

Awesome :D :D

[purepassion 22]

:inlove:

worth enough for this ? :dd: