ArmAverse | The community fan fiction thread

[maturin 12]

The "crap" I "peddled", about how 98% of the Iranian population is Muslim, is CLEARLY stated.

Okay, so the 98% statistic would be a fact. And it's the premise of your argument. It's a true premise. 'Because 98% are Muslim, it is true that...'

You've got that part down. It's what you say afterwards that's the problem. And no amount of CIA statistics will help you on that point.

The Iranian Revolution was a historical accident. Like the other two circumstances where Islamic clerics came to power in a Middle Eastern state, Western intervention was the root cause. It's a regime that many observers say is on the wane, relying on foreign confrontations to rally support and brute force to carry elections. It could fall quite easily. But somehow you see the current government as determining the entire past, present and future of Iran in all its complex social, political and religious attributes. And then you have the nerve to talk about history.

[antoineflemming 14]

Okay, so the 98% statistic would be a fact. And it's the premise of your argument. It's a true premise. 'Because 98% are Muslim, it is true that...'

You've got that part down. It's what you say afterwards that's the problem. And no amount of CIA statistics will help you on that point.

The Iranian Revolution was a historical accident. Like the other two circumstances where Islamic clerics came to power in a Middle Eastern state, Western intervention was the root cause. It's a regime that many observers say is on the wane, relying on foreign confrontations to rally support and brute force to carry elections. It could fall quite easily. But somehow you see the current government as determining the entire past, present and future of Iran in all its complex social, political and religious attributes. And then you have the nerve to talk about history.

I understand your argument. I can even see your point about the regime falling easily. I just don't think Iran will cease to be an Islamic Republic, even if the name changes. I just don't see Iran becoming secular. And any regime change I'd think would be more inclined to interact with the West. The only Iran I see actually aggressively expanding is the Iran that does rely on foreign confrontations and that is radically Islamic. I think any one seeking to overthrow the current regime would want to garner the support of the pro-democracy, much more pro-Western Green Movement (is this supposed to be the Lions Movement in the ArmA3 story? It happens about the same time), which would mean the new government wouldn't be as antagonistic to the West. Bottom line I have a hard time seeing a secular, yet radical/aggressive/confrontational/expansionist Iran. I could see the current regime doing that, given the opportunity to have such a resurgence (which would have to include some kind of nationalistic resurgence). That's all.

[Corvinus 35]

I don't really want to interfere in your discussion, gentlemen, just to put here my five cents. First of all, I want to say that I quite appreciate the change of game's background from a "tomclancyish" WW3 story to a more modest, yet more realistic story of coup d'etat, economic jolt and territorial disputes, i.e. stuff we can see every day on TV.

As I can see it, in the Armaverse Iran went through the same transformation as Turkey in the early twentieth century (and as countries of Maghreb in the middle of the century) - a group of patriotic and mostly secular officers (as far as I can tell, military elite tends to be one of the most secular stratas in the Middle East) overthrows old ineffective government and seize the power in order to modernize and secularize their country, improve economy, rebuilt army and enlighten population. Would such a government be more peaceful than it's predecessor? I doubt so. Most likely they will replace Islam with nationalism as a state ideology.

Now for something to support my statements. I have to admit, that all this stuff is pretty obscure and unsteady, but that's all I have. In the "Factions"-page of the official site there is this picture, which, I believe, represent the flag of the Republic of Iran:

On this image we can clearly see a griffin replacing the stylized name of Allah, which you can find on the modern flag. As it turns out, the images of griffin-like creatures have long history in Iranian arts and culture in general, here is just some of them:

1.) Huma bird.

Please note the following excerpt from the given above Wikipedia article: "In Iranian literature, this function of the Huma bird is identified with pre-Islamic monarchs"

2.) Simurgh. The image of this creature was part of the Coat of Arms of Pahlavi dynasty.

3.) Lion and Sun. It was official emblem of Iran from 1423 up to 1907. Here is the flag of Iran in 1964–1980 years.

4.) But the most similar image to the BIS griffin is, obviously, the Persian Griffin.

Images of that griffin can be traced back in time to the Achaemenid Empire. And here is the map of the said Achaemenid Empire:

All those griffin-like symbols can be grouped together as a reflections of pre-Islamic history of Iran, rich, glorious and almost forgotten by the world. A fitting coat of arms for a renewed nation with thousands years of history, a thriving future and a resolve to fight in the name of Iran, not Islam, for the citizens of the state, not for "Islamic brotherhood".

P.S.: I can feel that I went a bit too far with all this pathos and numerous errors, but oh well...

[celery 8]

Great post, Corvinus!

[purepassion 22]

All those griffin-like symbols can be grouped together as a reflections of pre-Islamic history of Iran, rich, glorious and almost forgotten by the world. A fitting coat of arms for a renewed nation with thousands years of history, a thriving future and a resolve to fight in the name of Iran, not Islam, for the citizens of the state, not for "Islamic brotherhood".

Excellent corvinus! I think you might have scored a strike there! :)

There is even more information on the Arma 3 homepage supporting your thesis!

Take a look at the description of Col. Vahid Namdar:

During his youth, partook in The Lions Movement, joined the army and became an airborne officer. Led a Nationalist commando in the Esfahan Coup d’état of 2019

The lions movement:

The lion, or lion and sun emblem, was between 1846 and 1979 an element in Iran's national flag.

Currently, the Lion and Sun flag is used by Iranian communities in exile as a symbol of opposition to the Islamic Republic.

The symbol is influenced by all significant historical cultures of Iran and brings together Zoroastrian, Shi'a, Jewish(Israel), Turkic and Iranian symbolism.

Coup d'état:

Well, that's obvious and fits perfectly to your description of a overthrow of the government by a small group of the existing state establishment—typically the military—and replacement of the deposed government with another body; either civil or military

Your findings seem absolutely logical ;)

[antoineflemming 14]

I don't really want to interfere in your discussion, gentlemen, just to put here my five cents. First of all, I want to say that I quite appreciate the change of game's background from a "tomclancyish" WW3 story to a more modest, yet more realistic story of coup d'etat, economic jolt and territorial disputes, i.e. stuff we can see every day on TV.

As I can see it, in the Armaverse Iran went through the same transformation as Turkey in the early twentieth century (and as countries of Maghreb in the middle of the century) - a group of patriotic and mostly secular officers (as far as I can tell, military elite tends to be one of the most secular stratas in the Middle East) overthrows old ineffective government and seize the power in order to modernize and secularize their country, improve economy, rebuilt army and enlighten population. Would such a government be more peaceful than it's predecessor? I doubt so. Most likely they will replace Islam with nationalism as a state ideology.

Now for something to support my statements. I have to admit, that all this stuff is pretty obscure and unsteady, but that's all I have. In the "Factions"-page of the official site there is this picture, which, I believe, represent the flag of the Republic of Iran:

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/4343/webfactionsartwork.jpg

On this image we can clearly see a griffin replacing the stylized name of Allah, which you can find on the modern flag. As it turns out, the images of griffin-like creatures have long history in Iranian arts and culture in general, here is just some of them:

1.) Huma bird.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9247/homap.jpg

Please note the following excerpt from the given above Wikipedia article: "In Iranian literature, this function of the Huma bird is identified with pre-Islamic monarchs"

2.) Simurgh. The image of this creature was part of the Coat of Arms of Pahlavi dynasty.

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9762/partoftheimperialcoatof.jpg

3.) Lion and Sun. It was official emblem of Iran from 1423 up to 1907. Here is the flag of Iran in 1964–1980 years.

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5059/800pxstateflagofiran196.jpg

4.) But the most similar image to the BIS griffin is, obviously, the Persian Griffin.

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4535/persiangriffin.jpg

Images of that griffin can be traced back in time to the Achaemenid Empire. And here is the map of the said Achaemenid Empire:

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/7834/achaemenidempire500bcep.png

All those griffin-like symbols can be grouped together as a reflections of pre-Islamic history of Iran, rich, glorious and almost forgotten by the world. A fitting coat of arms for a renewed nation with thousands years of history, a thriving future and a resolve to fight in the name of Iran, not Islam, for the citizens of the state, not for "Islamic brotherhood".

P.S.: I can feel that I went a bit too far with all this pathos and numerous errors, but oh well...

This makes a lot of sense. And is probably what BIS was going for. Only thing I disagree with is the "replace Islam with state ideology" bit. The government, yes. But culture, no. I don't think the people will stop being Muslim. But as far as a secular government system, then yeah, I can accept that.

They should add some sort of writing though that replaces the "Allah Akbar" script on the current flag. It makes their flag seem less "plain"... :p Or, maybe they should add that back in. Only because the people are Muslim. Kinda like American currency has "in God we trust" even though a considerable number of the population aren't christian. And it would also be inclusive of Iran's Muslim identity as well.

Edited March 29, 2012 by antoineflemming

[Tonci87 163]

Great post corvinus.

[antoineflemming 14]

Here's kinda what I'm wish the flag was:

Islamic Republic of Iran flag:

Republic of Iran flag:

My take on the flag:

IDK, the BIS one looks plain to me...

[PuFu 4591]

you nitpicking?

i am sure you'll jump right on it and mod the smallest and insignificant detail you don't like. I am looking forward to your take once A3 is released...

[maturin 12]

The government, yes. But culture, no. I don't think the people will stop being Muslim. But as far as a secular government system, then yeah, I can accept that.

Having a majority Muslim culture doesn't mean that society has to be Islamic, devoid of secular values. That's the central point of contention here.

I know quite little about Iran, but even the brief exposure I have had to the culture of today's Iranian youth suggests a people that is more forward-looking and progressive than their government. The theocracy is already illegitimate so far as young people are concerned, and these are the people who will be in power by 2030. In the last round of protests, you got crowds chanting 'We are an Aryan nation, not an Islamic nation!'* That says a lot.

Overall, I feel like BIS read my (and other people's) posts months ago and made some good changes. Or maybe it was always like this and we just have more info.

*Aryan as in an actual ethnic group, not as in white people.

[antoineflemming 14]

you nitpicipking?

Why do you care?

@maturin yeah, I see what you're saying. Given that it makes sense that the government could be secular. Well, at least now, moving forward, we have clearer direction for fanfiction and stuff. I'll try to get something put out this weekend, especially since BIS's new story voided out my stuff :p . And, yes, it'll probably include some fancy pic to accompany it. You know what they say about pictures...

[PuFu 4591]

Why do you care?

I wouldn't if you'd be nitpicking in front of the mirror smarty pants, but you aren't, you are on a public forum.

[antoineflemming 14]

Change my mind. Gonna go ahead and add something now :)

AAN OPINION

Asia

Beijing, China

Friday 09 February 2018 15:23

Iran Denied SCO Membership

by Randy Averson, special to AAN

The bid by the Islamic Republic of Iran to join Shanghai Cooperation Organization as a member state has been denied. The Secretary-General elaborated on the decision:

"At this point in time we are not comfortable with admitting Iran into our security organization. Iran has consistently been non-compliant with the international body's expectations and demands. We are not willing to admit Iran into the Organization until the government resolves its domestic and international problems, and peacefully resolves the unrest in the country. Member states must resolve internal security issues before being admitted into a body that aims to resolve collective security issues. Domestic unrest in Iran is a domestic security issue for Iran. As long as there is popular unrest in the country, Iran's security is weakened. Only after Iran has resolved its internal issues will the SCO consider admitting the nation of Iran.

Now, let's be real here. It's professional and all to sugarcoat Iran's many domestic and international problems, and to try to tie that in to security (still don't see the connection), but these "issues" aren't going to go away until the Islamic Republic institutes some major reforms. I honestly don't see these problems going away under the current regime. Here is a nation that prides itself on confrontation and violently putting down unrest. Remember the Syrian crisis of 2011/2012? At the time is was largely believed that the Syrian government was acting both off of the advice and material support of the Iranian regime. There won't be any stable situation in Iran until the regime listens to its people and enacts necessary reforms. And I don't think this regime will do that. I'm being real here: The only thing that will bring about any kind of resolution is a regime change in Iran, a democratic government with a system that isn't based off of Islamic law. They need to drop the whole nuclear power thing. Change the regime, put forth necessary reforms, stop the confrontational stuff, and the world will have an Iran that it has no problem interacting with. An Iranian regime change can only be good for the world.

Follow us on Twitter @AANOpinion

Join us on Facebook/AANOpinion

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Randy Averson.

[instagoat 133]

As for Iranian culture, from what I read I believe that the revolution in Iran against the Shah, while originally a movement of the people, was co-opted by the ayatollah and his cronies, who then forced their idea of an Islamic nation on a country that, prior to the US putting the Shah into place, already had well established democratic values. The Iranian people are not, by and large, radical islamists. They are just as Islamic as the majority of Germans are protestants. That doesn´t make Germany into a theocratic nation. Same goes for Iran. There is a lot of democratic potential in the iranian popolous (I hope), and if their military decides (as it seems to have done in the Armaverse) that they won´t put up with the religious hocus-pocus anymore, the Ayatollah and his fanboys will be gone quick. There will probably a short and intense civil war (seeing as the islamic revolutionary guards are probably pretty dedicated to their religious cause and won´t just simply back down because they´re told to do so), but ultimately, the people of Iran will win out.

That doesn´t change the fact that there´s probably still a -lot- of hate going on because of the whole shah affair, against the US and its allies. Once Iran has sorted themselves out and established a stable, secular government (even if its a military junta), I believe the SCO will be pretty quick to pick up an ally in the region, especially with traditional NATO ally states in the region having the problems they have right now.

My two cents.

[onlyrazor 11]

More shitfiction from yours truly :rolleyes::

AA News Network Online

Iran Launches Nation-wide Ballistic Missile Shield Initiative

The Iranian Board of Military Authority declared at a security conference earlier today that due to exigent circumstances in the Middle East, the country would be launching a missile shield system spanning along its Iraq border and reaching to Azerbaijan under the auspices of the Total War Defense Act passed in the summer of 2029.

When questioned, authorities responded that: "this initiative is a retort to the unacceptable acts of nuclear brinkmanship perpetrated by Israel."

The official referred to Israel testing its latest Redeemer-class (גו×ל) ICBMs in March on former Syrian sovereign territory, long abandoned after the Syrian Civil War, culminating in the Sadad massacre.

Continue reading...

Ryan Richards for AA News Network. 9 August, 2031.

In other news:

Russian oil mogul Arkadiy Arumov to bail out Chernarussian economy?

US Army expands unmanned vehicle arsenal

Czech Video Game Developer voted "Independent Studio of the Year". "We are pleased we are still going strong," says CEO.

Also, I used Google Translate, so any Hebrew speakers, get it out of your system now if you want any corrections to that word :p

[Corvinus 35]

I don't think the people will stop being Muslim.

Of course they won't. Just less zealotry and more tolerance, similar to the European christians. As it seems, the people of Iran, especially city-dwellers and the middle class, are already bit tired with all this dedication-to-Islam-thing, and just want to enjoy their lives:

P.S.: The only thing in the new background I'm not quite happy with is this: "Turkey – decimated by a series of devastating and unprecedented natural disasters – fell within months to ruthless Iranian Armed Forces". Sounds way too similar to Battlefield 3 plot with Iraq being replaced by Turkey.

[maturin 12]

BIS just did that to get Turkey out of the way. Because Turkey is going to be the real power in the middle east, a possibly Europe, in the near future. They're NATO, and any shenanigans pulled by Iran would chiefly involve their territory. It's giving a cheap tranquilizer dart to the plot lion in the room.

[Corvinus 35]

They're NATO, and any shenanigans pulled by Iran would chiefly involve their territory.

I do understand it, it just the circumstances ("natural disasters") seems bit unnatural to me. I'd rather like something along these lines: in the second decade of the 21 century Turkey tried to become a regional superpower of the Middle East, but several misjudgment moves of its government ruined the country's economy, alienated its neighbors and have caused dissatisfaction of the West, which have led to the major outcry of the Turkish population and, as a result, political instability. Iran, which has recently endured a similar situation, couldn't resist the urge to took advantage of the situation.

[maturin 12]

Yeah, a destabilizing civil war between militarists and islamists, with democrats and authoritarians and Kurds mixed up on both sides, is very plausible. Throw in a conflict with Syria or Iraq caused by water access issues, and there's tons of exploitative potential for Iran.

It's not possible to have an earthquake big enough to knock out a country like Turkey. A public housing crisis and a flatter capital can't hurt you that much.

[onlyrazor 11]

It's not possible to have an earthquake big enough to knock out a country like Turkey. A public housing crisis and a flatter capital can't hurt you that much.

Combined with the previously mentioned fuck-ups, it would be a suitable catalyst for a chain reaction that could potentially turn the country upside-down.

[Maio 293]

OK... Let's liven up the thread a bit. China has been mentioned several times in the ArmA3 story, so considering that China will be a confirmed global player in ArmA 3 , how do you envision the Chinese armed forces in 2035 in terms of tech and doctrine? Do not treat this as a micro wishlist, but as a game of imagination, based on the back story of A3.

Shoot :) :

[celery 8]

Their main heavy hitter on the ground (and little bit in the air) will be mechas that were licensed to them by the Japanese for the promise that China doesn't invade. Infantry and tanks are solely for moral support. :bored:

[slatts 1978]

OK... Let's liven up the thread a bit. China has been mentioned several times in the ArmA3 story, so considering that China will be a confirmed global player in ArmA 3 , how do you envision the Chinese armed forces in 2035 in terms of tech and doctrine? Do not treat this as a micro wishlist, but as a game of imagination, based on the back story of A3.

Shoot :) :

hm...suppose a few aircraft carriers and some new carrier borne planes(stealthy more then likely)

the J-20..maybe upgraded with the latest tech for 2020-30.

[CyclonicTuna 87]

I could write a scenario of 30.000 words that in detaill explains how this whole situation unfolds and what a possible outcome could be but I won't. Because I know that the BIS devolopers might appreciate it but won't use it.

All I know is that I think one really interesting direction in such a plot would be an all out war in Scandinavia. As far as I know its never been done and it could add a lot of new gameplay features along with the enviroment.

Honestly I'm getting a bit tired of all the conflicts taking place in urban enviroments and/or dusty remote places. A cold and snowy enviroment changes everything from flight mechanics to sound. And from camouflage to vehicular warfare.

I'm from Holland and I don't know a whole lot about the Swedish and Norwegean forces. But what I do know is that (just like the Dutch armed forces) they are being underestimated. They are the most experienced cold weather fighters in the world and they pack the latest and greatest in military gear. I would like to see them fighting side by side with Dutch, Belgium, German, British and Danish forces to drive back the invaders.

Ofcourse that leaves the question of who the invaders are. Eventhough I don't like to admit it (in the name of all that is a cliché WW3 plot), I think the Russians would be the most likely contestend. They also have experience with cold weather warfare and they are most likely to invade that part of Europe when WW3 hits. I poses a vital strategic purpose for Submarine ports and ICBM silo's.

That's basically it, I really hope we are going to see some artic warfare :p

[antoineflemming 14]

I could write a scenario of 30.000 words that in detaill explains how this whole situation unfolds and what a possible outcome could be but I won't. Because I know that the BIS devolopers might appreciate it but won't use it.

All I know is that I think one really interesting direction in such a plot would be an all out war in Scandinavia. As far as I know its never been done and it could add a lot of new gameplay features along with the enviroment.

Honestly I'm getting a bit tired of all the conflicts taking place in urban enviroments and/or dusty remote places. A cold and snowy enviroment changes everything from flight mechanics to sound. And from camouflage to vehicular warfare.

I'm from Holland and I don't know a whole lot about the Swedish and Norwegean forces. But what I do know is that (just like the Dutch armed forces) they are being underestimated. They are the most experienced cold weather fighters in the world and they pack the latest and greatest in military gear. I would like to see them fighting side by side with Dutch, Belgium, German, British and Danish forces to drive back the invaders.

Ofcourse that leaves the question of who the invaders are. Eventhough I don't like to admit it (in the name of all that is a cliché WW3 plot), I think the Russians would be the most likely contestend. They also have experience with cold weather warfare and they are most likely to invade that part of Europe when WW3 hits. I poses a vital strategic purpose for Submarine ports and ICBM silo's.

That's basically it, I really hope we are going to see some artic warfare :p

Well, for one, it's not WW3 anymore. At first the story was after WW3. Now it's before WW3. Does Limnos get snow during winter? If so, it'd be nice to see a winter variant of Limnos (where if you change the month to any winter month, there will be snow). That'd be really cool. And it'd be cool if it had a different effect on your character and on AI. Kinda like what Assassin's Creed is doing. Then you'd be able to have a cold weather scenario.