Flight dynamics (important issues)

[Tias 1]

Thanks! Now I have to start practicing again, just got the hang of flying (trainee) without any XML-patches...

[Fergus 1]

Is this a completely separate flight model to the community update 3 posted elsewhere or does it incorporate those changes as well? :confused:

[armored_sheep 56]

Is this a completely separate flight model to the community update 3 posted elsewhere or does it incorporate those changes as well? :confused:

Light helicopter uses some of the tweeks from comunity but not all as they are not working on all difficulty game modes / with all types of controlers (autotrim and start in the air was broken).

[armored_sheep 56]

XML tweek release candidate for patch nr.3 http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2072646&postcount=63

[Sylle 1]

Thanks Armored_Sheep for the continuous improvements of the XML files!

Sylvain

[jm2 10]

Its good that the devs listen to the people and fix the issues.

But i wish it would be done a way that dont needs so much attention

by me (customer), cause sometimes it feels like, i am spending more

time to check for new patches, download and install them, then playing.

(not only caused by TOH :))

Couldn´t the files be auto updated (steam, if you got the steam version)

that you only have to switch this XML files ingame?

greets, JM

[StephanS 10]

Hi there,

well done. Thanks to the community and the devs too. Now TOH is very fun to fly. Even without the HSIM....XML Addons it is a good flightmodel with Patch 1.03 .

Thanks to all and merry christmas :)

[zentaos 10]

Have any of the real world pilots flown TOH since patch 1.03?

I feel that the ground effect and sink rate are much improved, even better than community patch 3, but the body of the helicopter is still twitchy as compared to the CP3.

ie: the slow speed handling characteristics were better/more realistic with CP3 but the collective and ground effect feel with left pedal torque effects are better with 1.03.

[EagleEye-GER- 0]

b101_uk, nightsta1ker: What are you`re impressions on the latest beta patches and the change to RTD4? The part were SIMHQ review looks at the flight dynamics with patch 89299 is disappointing.

[4 IN 1 0]

The problem is that it is hard to please everyone, like, if you buff up FD to utter realistic level, people using KB and M for whatever reason might find that very difficult to fly, same to the opposite, and then there will also creat problem for AI and auto-trim system. Further more there is still not enought input from RL pilot , we have a few, but they are have other more important things to do, while most other are focus on X PLANE now and cannot be bother to look at TakOH or just too busy on fixing up X PLANE and have no time to take care of TakOH, there are also things that I don't think should bring up here or things that were talked to death.

[EagleEye-GER- 0]

The problem is that it is hard to please everyone, like, if you buff up FD to utter realistic level, people using KB and M for whatever reason might find that very difficult to fly, same to the opposite, and then there will also creat problem for AI and auto-trim system. Further more there is still not enought input from RL pilot , we have a few, but they are have other more important things to do, while most other are focus on X PLANE now and cannot be bother to look at TakOH or just too busy on fixing up X PLANE and have no time to take care of TakOH, there are also things that I don't think should bring up here or things that were talked to death.

Oh, I have feared that.:icon_sad:

[zentaos 10]

The problem is that BIS is walking a tightrope between the loyal Arma fans and the flight sim community they are trying to reach out to.

The Arma fans have been happily playing BIS games without the use of realistic flight controls because the primary function of previous titles doesn't require them.

The flight sim community would never think of using anything less than realistic flight controls because the primary function of sim software is flight.

In my opinion, (read my opinion...so I don't upset anyone) BIS needs to concentrate on the opinions of the flight sim community for TOH and not let the opinions of the loyal Arma fans influence the direction they are going with TOH. I know this will probably upset certain users playing with KB&M. Don't worry though...Arma 3 is coming, and I have no doubts that BIS will fulfill or die trying to fulfill the expectations of the loyal Arma fans with the new title. I hope they continue to go the direction of realistic sim with TOH, if they do, they have the holy grail of helicopter sims at their fingertips.

[_michal 10]

In my opinion, (read my opinion...so I don't upset anyone) BIS needs to concentrate on the opinions of the flight sim community for TOH and not let the opinions of the loyal Arma fans influence the direction they are going with TOH. I know this will probably upset certain users playing with KB&M. Don't worry though...Arma 3 is coming, and I have no doubts that BIS will fulfill or die trying to fulfill the expectations of the loyal Arma fans with the new title. I hope they continue to go the direction of realistic sim with TOH, if they do, they have the holy grail of helicopter sims at their fingertips.

+1

TOH has the potential to be the best heliciopter sim (both civilian and combat) on the market. I wish there was a bit more realism on the avionics side.

[maddogx 13]

In my opinion, (read my opinion...so I don't upset anyone) BIS needs to concentrate on the opinions of the flight sim community for TOH and not let the opinions of the loyal Arma fans influence the direction they are going with TOH. I know this will probably upset certain users playing with KB&M. Don't worry though...Arma 3 is coming, and I have no doubts that BIS will fulfill or die trying to fulfill the expectations of the loyal Arma fans with the new title. I hope they continue to go the direction of realistic sim with TOH, if they do, they have the holy grail of helicopter sims at their fingertips.

As a long time Arma player, I agree 100% with this.

[[evo] dan 79]

+1 to that

[Scorlhov 1]

The problem is that BIS is walking a tightrope between the loyal Arma fans and the flight sim community they are trying to reach out to.

The Arma fans have been happily playing BIS games without the use of realistic flight controls because the primary function of previous titles doesn't require them.

The flight sim community would never think of using anything less than realistic flight controls because the primary function of sim software is flight.

In my opinion, (read my opinion...so I don't upset anyone) BIS needs to concentrate on the opinions of the flight sim community for TOH and not let the opinions of the loyal Arma fans influence the direction they are going with TOH. I know this will probably upset certain users playing with KB&M. Don't worry though...Arma 3 is coming, and I have no doubts that BIS will fulfill or die trying to fulfill the expectations of the loyal Arma fans with the new title. I hope they continue to go the direction of realistic sim with TOH, if they do, they have the holy grail of helicopter sims at their fingertips.

+1 to that too :)

[EagleEye-GER- 0]

I hope they continue to go the direction of realistic sim with TOH, if they do, they have the holy grail of helicopter sims at their fingertips.

I´m not sure about that. It would mean that BI have access to pilots who fly the type(or similiar) represented in the game. And with some RL pilots already leaved ToH for other projects I don`t know who can assist BI in make the helis more authentic. I know the BI ToH team is dedicated to helicopters, though is that enough to make the helis behave more realistic? What does that change to Rotorlib 4 means in detail? Just polished some dynamic calculations or adding new effects?

[OMAC 254]

I'm having great fun with 1.04 RTD FM on expert with kb/mouse. Top notch. Cool new rolling take-offs and landings for wheel-based landing gear for heavy helis (as it will be for Hinds, I think; check out new wheel brake!), and new cougar livery:

I just hope BIS keeps on doing what they're doing with regard to supporting both kb/mouse and controllers. The link with RTD appears like it was EXACTLY the right thing to do, resulting in the best ToH FM to date.

[Derbysieger 11]

In my opinion, (read my opinion...so I don't upset anyone) BIS needs to concentrate on the opinions of the flight sim community for TOH and not let the opinions of the loyal Arma fans influence the direction they are going with TOH. I know this will probably upset certain users playing with KB&M. Don't worry though...Arma 3 is coming, and I have no doubts that BIS will fulfill or die trying to fulfill the expectations of the loyal Arma fans with the new title. I hope they continue to go the direction of realistic sim with TOH, if they do, they have the holy grail of helicopter sims at their fingertips.

+1

I hope they can really nail the FM in the future

[autorotation 1]

Man, going crazy waiting for Steam to update TOH. Me wants to fly them new dynamics already!:bounce12:

[Serclaes 0]

Playing BIS games since 2005 and I approve this message. :D

I think ToH is on the right way. The difficulty levels allow some differentiation in the degrees of realism. Hence expert should really be "expert". Sorry for the keyboard & mouse players but that's the way I think it should be :)

[jedra 11]

This really is a tough one for BIS. I like the fact that flying the helicopter is reasonably realistic and certainly a challenge, but I also like the fact that I don't need a 100 page manual and half an hour to get the engines going. The sim market is already reasonably crowded in this respect. I own DCS:BS2, DCS:A10, FSX, Cliffs Of Dover and X-Plane 10 and frankly none of them are as much 'fun' as Take On Helicopters. I certainly haven't put anywhere near as many hours into all of the mentioned Flight Sims put together as I have with ToH - they are simply just not as accessible for me.

I guess the problem could be that being 'not quite a flight sim, and not quite a game' may be causing it to crash land squarley in the middle of both of these paying audiences and the number of people like myself are not going to be enough to sustain it? Which means they may have to head off in another direction.

Also, if they put the flight model from ToH into Arma 3 (and I really hope they do) then I can't see myself coming back to ToH as it will become more or less a sub-set of Arma 3.

I really do want to thank BI for making ToH though as it was a brave step, which is to be applauded given that most publishers go for the safe money these days, and I am having so much fun with it. It can be as frustrating as hell sometimes, but very rewarding when you can finally make 'that manouver', whetever it is.

With regard for catering for keyboard and mouse players, I don't see this as a problem as long as ultimately it is a game that works as it should with a reasonably good joystick. Toning down the FM to cater for an input medium probably isn't the way to go - it's probably better to work on the software mechanisms and options on medium itself to make it more appropriate for the model.

[Scorlhov 1]

I like the fact that flying the helicopter is reasonably realistic

Not really.

and certainly a challenge,

Yes, essentially because of the wrong FM

but I also like the fact that I don't need a 100 page manual and half an hour to get the engines going.

DCS need only one KB key to start engines.

Also, if they put the flight model from ToH into Arma 3 (and I really hope they do) then I can't see myself coming back to ToH as it will become more or less a sub-set of Arma 3.

TOH has a short life for you then :).

Now, you understand why TOH must differenciated from ARMA 3. It must be a true flight sim to attract flight simming community and not be "more or less a sub-set of Arma 3".:) otherwise what is the point of TOH.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Scorlhov

[Serclaes 0]

Not really.

Yes really.

Yes, essentially because of the wrong FM

Might be but still more challenging than DCS.

DCS need only one KB key to start engines.

Defeats the point of the simulation.

TOH has a short life for you then :).

Now, you understand why TOH must differenciated from ARMA 3. It must be a true flight sim to attract flight simming community and not be "more or less a sub-set of Arma 3".:) otherwise what is the point of TOH.

Fund the incorporation of a good flight model into the real virtuality engine.

[jedra 11]

Scorlhov - I think you were being mischievous with my post there! Given the hundreds of hours I have put into ToH since its launch, it has had a long life already!

I agree with Serclaes that ToH was something built with more than one eye on testing out new things for Arma 3.

Having said all what I said, I have no problem with them improving the flight model, I am sure that the guys at rtdynamics who built the flight model are more than interested in the feedback the game gets - they are in the game of trying to build realistic flight models after all.

At the end of the day, if they want to turn it into a full-on simulator then good luck to them, and if that's the case I hope they can grab some of the flight-sim market. If they don't, then great - I'll continue to fly around fooling myself that I am doing so in a manner somewhere close to the real thing!