9/11 10th Anniversary

[Frostburg 10]

May all those who died on that day rest in peace.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Absolutly. To think Ali baba aaahm Bin Laden and 19 Raiders from a cave could conspire to do such a massive crime is something for people which are mentaly retarded.

If there is one thing that is constant, it's conspiracy theorist who think they can go anywhere and spew their idiocy while others are trying to pay respect. I've had it with idiots like you and enjoy your vacation.

[katipo66 94]

while others are trying to pay respect...

Maybe a gaming forum isn't the best place to do it.

[Zoz 10]

Every place is good enough if the respect you are showing is sincere.

A gaming forum can do its small part.

While for conspiracies shit there are a lot of other political forums out of here.

[-)rStrangelove 0]

I feel with all ppl who lost somebody on 9/11. And i feel sorry for ppl who chose to ignore the facts presented after the commission report which don't fit into the official 'version' of the happenings.

Some Americans still search for the truth and thats good to know: http://9-11cc.org/index.php/2011/06/03/senator-gravel-video-on-a-new-911-investigation/

[mrcash2009 0]

It goes without saying R.I.P to those people that were outright murdered that day.

it's conspiracy theorist who think they can go anywhere and spew their idiocy while others are trying to pay respect

Much as I understand that the whole debate is off topic than paying respects I find it a little puzzling that posting videos here of people in the last moments getting killed to play over and over is somehow also ok (as regards to respecting the dead), that to me is a death cult almost (re living the moments of death), I thought it was more about respecting thier passing and people when they were here also, I mean this in terms of the nature of the thread. Kevin cant exactly rest in peace fully based on the video posted.

Thats not directed at the poster per-se, but I find it puzzling someone gets a ban (for a time I assume) of the entire BIS forum which incl posting anywhere else that nothing to do with this by posting a comment (could it not be a warning and the post removed out of this thread), but posting focus to a man dying horribly to play over and over in a respect to the dead thread is kind of ok.

But ... anyway it should not be forgotten for all reasons and incl the people who were caught up in it and payed with their lives on that day, that is for certain.

Edited September 12, 2011 by mrcash2009

[Zipper5 74]

You are correct, mrcash2009. I was simply shocked to see it for the first time and believed others should know of Kevin's sacrifice. However, I see that it wasn't within the spirit of the day, so I have removed my post. My apologies.

[sanctuary 19]

May all the innocent victims of the murderers, whatever the place or the time, rest in peace in a better world.

[ACPL Jon 68]

Amen.

[Hans Ludwig 0]

You are correct, mrcash2009. I was simply shocked to see it for the first time and believed others should know of Kevin's sacrifice. However, I see that it wasn't within the spirit of the day, so I have removed my post. My apologies.

I don't see your post being out of line. If anything, it actually builds awareness of how stupid it was to build that tall of a building. Anyone with common sense would know that if a fire were to happen that it would take forever for the rescuers to arrive on the scene. I guess it's because I lived in California for a short while. You learn to think in the "what-if" mindset.

[solidsnake2384 10]

Well were getting a taller building............made out of glass!

---------- Post added at 09:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 PM ----------

1,776 feet tall!

[*LK1* 10]

respect for all victims, of every war. for the thousands of civilians killed by the us military to the civilians killed in the twin towers. terrorism is the way that poor people use to fight, jets and apaches are the richest way. the problem is the war and the hate that brings.

Edited September 13, 2011 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[sudayev 27]

It's been ten years. World has changed so dramatically.

I managed to watch part of memorial ceremony at the site, during the name reading. Then I felt sad, this was very intense, like not from 10 years ago but days days ago. Too many human lives perished on that day.

Three hrs later I watched what was going in London, I'll skip the details because someone might gonna say I'm staring to inflame things, whatever..

[Rovka 14]

To honor the fallen, heed the lessons of truth:

That war may always be, may well be. But that doesn't mean we have to go looking for trouble ourselves, by keeping silent on what we do not want!

For whatever we do onto another, is what we have to accept of hitting our own homes aswell. That's the teaching of logic of cause and consequence.

Once that is fully understood and acted upon by governments and people alike, the dead can finally get their eternal rest, or go onwards to another oncoming life if you will.

For the dead I say: Rest In Peace brothers and sisters, I hope you all may fare well in equality and happiness wherever you are.

[Dead3yez 0]

I don't get it.

Did any one of you know these people on a personal level? Did they die during an act of courage and bravery? Did they die for freedom?

Most likely no. They were murdered.

And, because of the events freedoms were taken away from people. Each time it is "remembered" or should I really say reminded to you... It gives the media/governments etc around the world to spread fear and use this terror acts to justify removing freedoms from the people (TSA for example), grabbing money and continue on with wars which have gone on for far too long.

Remembering them, respecting them? Yeah... I know. I'll watch them all being killed again, as if the first time wasn't shocking enough and call it "Remembering/respecting them". Really? If you had a loved one in the building you would give them remembrance by watching their death each year? Anniversary? That makes it more specialer? I mean it's not like it wasn't possible to get through each week since without being remembered.

If that's what gets you off, then go right ahead. But do not give me any backlash with your double standards. Yeah.... I'm truly sorry if I interrupted your remembering session. But you know what? This is a public forum and I can criticise if I want.

A forum is no place to pay your respects if you're dead serious. Discussion, yes.

If there is one thing that is constant, it's conspiracy theorist who think they can go anywhere and spew their idiocy

I believe you're wrong (at least in the United Stated and most other countries). For example, in the United States people are allowed to spew as much idiocy as they want since it is protected by the first amendment ... That thing called freedom of speech. Note, I am not a conspiracy theorist or even jokingly being one, so please don't ban me.

[Daniel 0]

I don't think it really needed a forum thread either, but the least we could do was to be respectful, at least for that one day. These people had their lives cut short and had two wars fought in their name, I think they deserve one day, even if it just makes people think a little about the chain of events it started.

Did they die during an act of courage and bravery?

Many of them, most likely. Especially the fire fighters.

[Hans Ludwig 0]

PBS' Frontline has a good documentary on a CIA interrogator.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/the-interrogator/

[Dead3yez 0]

Many of them, most likely. Especially the fire fighters.

You're right. I wasn't entirely true. And, for these people I offer my thanks and most of all recognition, even if they don't effect me directly, but even just for the greater good of mankind. But, broadening the perspective here I care equally to those who have died any time providing any service as such. Even more so if I directly effects me.

But, as for "wars fought in their name", that's not entirely true at all. How was Saddam or Iraq responsible for 9/11 at all? Perhaps they had ties to AlQaeda, so what? So does Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia etc etc.. Their deaths have been used to "justify" and used as an excuse for wars which result in 100s of times more amount of deaths. And, that brings us back to the reason of the whole unnecessary glorification of the tragedy.

--------------

99% of people have family members that have died, and they manage to get over it or at least not have to inform as much people as they can about it ten years later. As a whole, we cannot keep on wallowing in the deaths of others. People want to move on. They will choose to remember when they feel like, not when they are told to. And, that's why people get sick of this. It's lost any sentiment that it has due to overhearing about it. People don't want bad news stuffed down their throats every second of their lives... Some people were murdered ten years ago? It gets really really really old. Getting dragged back and back again. It was not a movement or a cause. You see, they never fought for my freedoms, they never volunteered their lives so I could live. They were murdered. If you had a family member that died there, then I'm not sorry. I did not kill them. I did not know them. But, that's a shame.

And, this is why if you want to mourn for them you should probably keep it private as you would with your family members who have died...

I could argue that putting 9/11 on the shrine where it is right now and worshipping it is infact fueling the publicity stunts pulled by politicians/media etc. is infact a great disrespect. :j:

I don't want to go on. We're all hypocrites right? But, I've said my piece and going on would only exalt the topic even more.... It's time to move on. Yes... MOVE ON.

[ralphwiggum 6]

I believe you're wrong (at least in the United Stated and most other countries). For example, in the United States people are allowed to spew as much idiocy as they want since it is protected by the first amendment ... That thing called freedom of speech.

The first amendment says that government shall not make laws prohibiting them.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;

It doesn't say that private entities(such as this forum) are restricted from taking actions on 'speech'

Even with that amendment, court have ruled that there are several situations where freedom of speech is not guranteed.

[mrcash2009 0]

The first amendment says that government shall not make laws prohibiting them.

Thats failed in the last 10 years, I cant see many denying that as a fact, patriot act direct from 9/11 is a massive example which is a bit of Irony.

It doesn't say that private entities(such as this forum) are restricted from taking actions on 'speech'

Even with that amendment, court have ruled that there are several situations where freedom of speech is not guranteed.

Under very worrying circumstances too, it either is or it isn't, when you get to "well, I think it doesn't in this" (or that) .. it undermines its whole reason and slowly can become out of control. Also "private entity" is a very good point, as there are many things being put under "private entities" these days (expanding your point out into the bigger picture) also "courts" have their roots.

I dont think its about free speech, I think its mainly about reaction to that free speech & actions taken that may have questionable issues, and im not talking this forum as such, I refer globally. Its the reactions taken and action made that are the things to always keep an eye on.

That's all a political thing (above) I suppose anyway, and I realise there is a thread for all that sort of thing, you cant blame me, you did start it :)

I could argue that putting 9/11 on the shrine where it is right now and worshipping it is infact fueling the publicity stunts pulled by politicians/media etc. is in fact a great disrespect.

I would agree to a point, this event is so drummed into the minds of people, you could say these deaths are more important than any resulting after it or before it (going by media land, not peoples view generally of course) it could be toned down a bit I think.

A lot of my family as much as they respect the point of remember those people who died & were murdered were getting a little ticked off with switching channels and having it repeated over and over with lots of analysis constantly quite a time before and after the actual day, almost as if it was that day again (in media land).

Also bear in mind 10 years is enough time for a new generation that weren't aware enough before of this event to be "reminded".

Edited September 14, 2011 by mrcash2009

[*LK1* 10]

If there is one thing that is constant, it's conspiracy theorist who think they can go anywhere and spew their idiocy while others are trying to pay respect. I've had it with idiots like you and enjoy your vacation.

no. it's not a constant. there were many tragic events in the world without a conspiracy theory behind the official truth, i mean without an huge support from the people. according to the last statistics 40% of the american people thinks that 9/11 was, somehow, an inside job. and many truthers (scientists or engineers) have different opinions to explain what that day really happens. we can consider these 40% a bunch of idiots or we should start to think why these americans dont want to believe at the official explanation. there is also a third option, well explained by the guy forced to get a vacation.

and if you guys have (have no doubt about it) a minimum amount of brain you would't consider disrespectful having an no-official idea about the tragedy.

i don't see how i disrispect the human beingkilled by considering their government implicated on their deaths. is hard to sustain a such position.

the government wanted a casus belli and finally they had it. we are just puppetts functional at the power/war games of any government. this is what not me but Macchiavelli theorized.

Edited September 14, 2011 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[st_dux 26]

i don't see how i disrispect the human beingkilled by considering their government implicated on their deaths. is hard to sustain a such position.

It's offensive for several reasons.

First and most importantly, it attributes a false meaning to their death. It denies that their death was the result of a random act of violence -- something that is completely unavoidable -- and instead suggests that it was part of an intricate plot devised and executed by the government which still runs the country in which the family members who survived them live. This leads to the implicit but unavoidable conclusion that every family member of a 9/11 victim is actively supporting their loved one's murderer.

Second, it defies all logic and science. There isn't a single 9/11 conspiracy theory that hasn't already been thoroughly debunked by authoritative, peer-reviewed sources. And you know what? This shouldn't even be necessary because the burden or proof is on the theorists. When someone presents you with facts and your response is to say, "fuck that, it couldn't be that simple," that's offensive to everyone with a modicum of intelligence.

Third, it is a position borne of weakness and fear. Conspiracy theorists aren't the great skeptics that they envision themselves to be; they are a weak sort who cannot for the life of them accept the fact that some things -- most things, actually -- happen for no reason at all. There is no master plot; there is no system; the only thing consistent in this world is inconsistency. The propensity to retreat from the senselessness of reality and fall back to a fortress of contrived structure is the hallmark of conspiracy theorists, and it is an offense to all whose will is not so weak.

[*LK1* 10]

It's offensive for several reasons.

First and most importantly, it attributes a false meaning to their death. It denies that their death was the result of a random act of violence -- something that is completely unavoidable -- and instead suggests that it was part of an intricate plot devised and executed by the government which still runs the country in which the family members who survived them live. This leads to the implicit but unavoidable conclusion that every family member of a 9/11 victim is actively supporting their loved one's murderer.

you are going to far with your implicit logic. i totally appreciate the passion you made in the discussion, but ufortunately your passion bring you to some bizarre conclusion. attribuiting a false meaning at someone's death

is not disrispectful. it would be if you ruin his reputation when they were alive. the only subject that could feel offended is just the u.s. government.

Second, it defies all logic and science. There isn't a single 9/11 conspiracy theory that hasn't already been thoroughly debunked by authoritative, peer-reviewed sources. And you know what? This shouldn't even be necessary because the burden or proof is on the theorists. When someone presents you with facts and your response is to say, "fuck that, it couldn't be that simple," that's offensive to everyone with a modicum of intelligence.

the only think i see disrispected is your personal beliefs concerning logic and science.

Third, it is a position borne of weakness and fear. Conspiracy theorists aren't the great skeptics that they envision themselves to be; they are a weak sort who cannot for the life of them accept the fact that some things -- most things, actually -- happen for no reason at all. There is no master plot; there is no system; the only thing consistent in this world is inconsistency. The propensity to retreat from the senselessness of reality and fall back to a fortress of contrived structure is the hallmark of conspiracy theorists, and it is an offense to all whose will is not so weak.

and how that become disrispectful for the victims? seriusly, i repeat that, i highly appreciate the passion you putted on your arguments. you must be a good and emotive guy(like many), but plz stop with these no-sense argumentations. i dont want to be considerated disrispectful just because i dont believe at the explanations gave for the 9/11.

i dont believe at "missiles hitted the pentagon" or "passengers hided by the govenment ecc." bu at the official truth neither. you guys are acting and promoting your ideas with a totalitarian behaviour with the positive purpose to defend the honor of the deads. but noone is attepting at.

There isn't a single 9/11 conspiracy theory that hasn't already been thoroughly debunked by authoritative, peer-reviewed sources..

i'm afraid but this is not truth. and the government was not cooperative, at all.

Edited September 14, 2011 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[Rovka 14]

I think it's wise to keep this thread for giving all the fallen a thought for those who whish to do so, without resorting to name-calling done back and forth on who's right and who's wrong.

In the end attention to this thread will seep away as time passes by, and no need to keep returning answers to keep it alive all the more, if you are so offended by this all.

That's been done time and again, and the result so far has always been another thread being locked. Please give it a rest if you will, and let this thread be what it was made for. Thank you kindly.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Thani '82

[st_dux 26]

attribuiting a false meaning at someone's death is not disrispectful.

Sure it is, and while this disrespect might not directly hurt those who have already died, it certainly hurts their surviving friends and family members. Suggesting that it's a government plot is tantamount to suggesting that those surviving friends and family members are both wrong about how the victims died and are actively supporting the victims' murderers. I explained this already. Do you honestly not see how this offensive? Would you really feel comfortable going to a funeral and telling the family members of the deceased that they are wrong about how their son/daughter/husband/wife/cousin died? "Hey, sorry about your loss and all, but you know your son wasn't actually killed in a car accident, right? he was killed because Audi executives conspired to kill him since he bought a BMW. Just thought you should know."

Anyway, Thani '82 is right, so I'll leave it at that.