Thoughts on using enemy uniforms

[Tom1 10]

arma 2 is a mil sim people. It was made for people who want to play like the would fight in real life, rather than run and gun like in BF (great game though). Yes ou can do whatever you want, you paid for the game, but respect the fact that this is the only good infantry mil sim out there and get over the fact that the ability to use enemy uniforms may affect your capture the flag, domination or team death match gamemode.

If it can be done in real life, it shoudl be a welcomed feature to arma. Arma was made in a way that means players who act like one would in the military will be rewarded, those who act otherwise will fail. Just like in real life, unless you are constantly communicating, taking an enemy uniform will be very stupid idea.

"Oh noeeeezzzz! In TvT everyone is going to steal uniforms and make it impossible to play."

No, if you play like you would in real life, keep communicating correctly and account for your dead, your comrades' uniforms will not be stolen and if they are then you will be able to neutralize the threat quickly. Infact stealing a uniform will be very hard and will provide interesting new challenges in PvP and will only make the game more realistic.

Some people think this feature would be more realistic but only if used sometimes; players who do it all the time will spoil the game. I say come verse my clan or any other realism based clan and try stealing enemy uniforms in a TvT match... you won't get very far ;)

Before anyone comments saying "don't tell me how arma is MEANT to be played. I payed for it, I can play how I want", I agree with you, I am just saying it is designed to be realistic so players who fight in arma like they would in real life will always win over those who don't. Therefore serious players have nothing to worry about and should look forward to the new challenges and scenarios undercover uniforms will bring :)

---------- Post added at 07:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------

I suggest passwords like in Saving Private Ryan movie: "Thunder" ....."Flash", this could also be added to AI, not just be used in TvT, and AI may even try to start conversations with you asking for the password depending how suspicious they are.

[eggbeast 3684]

we already implemented this in Evolution series for Arma 2 CO

if you want to try it out - stick on the mission and take the civilian class at join screen, then go to respawn vehicle and select "go undercover" - you get identified if there's more than 3 enemy soldiers within 20m of you, or if you draw a weapon or get in a vehicle. You also have a red flag system where you get 5 chances to be found out (like drawing on an enemy) and then after this you have blown your cover. it was a way we though to limit exploitation.

The guy is great fun with his silenced pistol and bag of IEDs

leading a patrol through enemy city is when he's great - he dicks the enemy positions for the point man

[Daniel 0]

@ one_man_clan

Those troops are wearing regional clothing to appear less conspicuous. They haven't taken those clothes from the bodies of their victims. I'm all for different levels of uniform and trying to blend with the locals, but taking their clothes in the field so you can walk past their friends is just silly.

[batto 17]

@ one_man_clan

Those troops are wearing regional clothing to appear less conspicuous. They haven't taken those clothes from the bodies of their victims. I'm all for different levels of uniform and trying to blend with the locals, but taking their clothes in the field so you can walk past their friends is just silly.

Sure. I mentioned it in post. But the possibility of wearing victims uniform is OK IMHO as long as there will be different body types (so you need to choose proper victim) and AI will react to blood and holes on uniform.

Suppose there is a situation where you are behind enemy line and you need to escape to friendlies. You could fight your way out (5% success) or you will try to sneak out in enemy uniform (50% sucess). Sure it feels like movie scene but ... why not?

Edited October 8, 2011 by batto

[Daniel 0]

Well, because your "friendlies" would mistake you for an enemy and shoot you? :p

[froggyluv 2136]

Maybe cool for PvP but I see it as just a further complication for the AI who are already beleaguered by rapid target acquisition problems -especially in Urban and CQB.

Tighten that area up first, then add features.

[HyperU2 11]

Yeah I feel like anytime I hop into an enemy vehicle I'm already changing uniforms. They often won't fire on me even as I mow their buddies down.

[Militant1006 11]

Yeah that is another point, if you are driving in a civilian car and when you crest over a valley, in arma 2 you will get taken out by a insurgent metis that is 800m away that never even saw you get in the vehicle.

Will this change?

[rye1 21]

@ one_man_clan

Those troops are wearing regional clothing to appear less conspicuous. They haven't taken those clothes from the bodies of their victims. I'm all for different levels of uniform and trying to blend with the locals, but taking their clothes in the field so you can walk past their friends is just silly.

So we know we can change kit, but when we don't. If you could say at a briefing screen before the start, or at a custom box, then it would be appicable?

And that photo is against an unconventional enemy. If a conventional one, you don't think this tactic would be used? And do you not think there would be some hesitation to engaging a possible friendly in the same uniform? The AI would need to be helluva tweaked.

And I've just got to ask this.... what about wearing jeans?

Edited October 9, 2011 by Rye

[coder4crack 10]

Ah yes. The conundrum that is ARMA 3...

Sadly, none of these issues will be addressed. Solving these AI contradictions is not one of Boolean logic (IF X AND Y then DO Z)

This is one requiring the implementation of a multivariate, fuzzy logic, neural network algorithm (AI) solution possibly employing a well trained back propagation multi-layered perceptron (MLP) or binary decision tree algo.

Sadly, Bohemia is not doing so well on this front as the evidence suggests. Expect disastrous bugs if they try... fun on a stick!!

Edited October 9, 2011 by coder4crack

[Daniel 0]

So we know we can change kit, but when we don't. If you could say at a briefing screen before the start, or at a custom box, then it would be appicable?

And that photo is against an unconventional enemy. If a conventional one, you don't think this tactic would be used? And do you not think there would be some hesitation to engaging a possible friendly in the same uniform? The AI would need to be helluva tweaked.

And I've just got to ask this.... what about wearing jeans?

Real life examples aside for a moment, I think there are too many potential unknown variables for "taking your victim's uniform in order to trick further enemy" to not in some way appear gimmicky, especially in the open battlefield that is Arma.

[sic-disaster 311]

TBH i dont mind that this is being added.

However, i do think there should be more to it than "shoot enemy, pick up clothes of enemy" and then being able to walk around with impunity.

This ability has been present in Hidden and Dangerous 2 as well and was awesome there because being able to find a uniform was extremely rare: enemy soldiers had to surrender to you before you could use their uniforms.

Shooting them obviously made bullet holes and blood appear on the uniform, rendering it useless.

And ofcourse H&D2 also was sophisticated about it: wearing the wrong backpack on an enemy uniform would lead to you getting spotted as well, and even still wearing an SAS knife would quickly raise suspicions.

If the system remains as it is seen in the preview video, there is no stopping you from picking up an enemy uniform every single time.

It will quickly become very overused and tedious. But just imagine the thrill of playing a mission with Enemy Surrendering Module in it, and capturing 4 or so enemy uniforms by making them surrender, then walking around with your mates in an enemy encampment in co-op! That would be thrilling.

[oscar19681 0]

It's not a feeling of fear, it's a feeling of embarrassment. Why does BIS insist on introducing a lame feature that even COD fans would find laughable.

He does have a point , I find the steal the uniform option kind of misplaced in a sim like Arma , Also it just feels unrealistic and james bondish.

I,m just fearing the Rambo styled i,m gonna steel a uniform and take on the whole enemy army kind of approach. It just leaves a bad arcadish taste in my mouth.. I never liked the single operative ops in the origninal operation flashpoint and Arma I and this is what the uniform option remind me off..

[Maio 293]

He does have a point , I find the steal the uniform option kind of misplaced in a sim like Arma , Also it just feels unrealistic and james bondish.

I,m just fearing the Rambo styled i,m gonna steel a uniform and take on the whole enemy army kind of approach. It just leaves a bad arcadish taste in my mouth.. I never liked the single operative ops in the origninal operation flashpoint and Arma I and this is what the uniform option remind me off..

It's an optional feature. You can chose not to use it :)

[batto 17]

I never liked the single operative ops in the origninal operation flashpoint and Arma I and this is what the uniform option remind me off..

I loved it!

Besides I hope BIS sometimes implement because this

Yeah that is another point, if you are driving in a civilian car and when you crest over a valley, in arma 2 you will get taken out by a insurgent metis that is 800m away that never even saw you get in the vehicle.

is not natural.

He does have a point

His point is "zomg ban CoD ..." type of point. I see no new information in it.

Edited October 11, 2011 by batto

[rye1 21]

"The SAS troops are reportedly trying to blend in with the rebels as much as possible by wearing similar clothing and carrying similar weapons such as AK47 rifles."

http://www.eliteukforces.info/uk-military-news/250811-sas-hunt-gaddafi.php

Crazy.

[2nd ranger 282]

They're blending in with their allies, not disguising themselves as enemy.

[rye1 21]

They're still using a disguise. To modify the manner or appearance of in order to prevent recognition.

[Cripsis 10]

They're still using a disguise. To modify the manner or appearance of in order to prevent recognition.

Mingling with allies isn't uncommon, but mingling with the enemy is almost suicidal.

[froggyluv 2136]

If player is attempting close proximity mingling, force him to wear mic and do his darndest to fake the accent as well as answer a cultural question:

"what is our favorite color?"

"Blue, wait no re...."

*calm pistol to the back of the head*

[rye1 21]

[Cripsis 10]

I think that is enough confirmation for me. You win.

[rye1 21]

I has more *gets out collection of action movies*.

[Tom1 10]

Why do people who don't believe using enemy uniforms is a good idea care? They don't have to use them... The more cool features in a game the better.

[Daniel 0]

Because cool features does not a good game make. If the feature doesn't come coupled with all the necessary AI routines to make disguising in enemy clothing believable, then it's a crap feature.

Nice find by the way Rye. ;)

Edited November 22, 2011 by Daniel