Why do you enjoy playing military wargames?

[Frostburg 10]

Hi all,

This question is not meant to offend anyone here.

I don't know if it is even worth the effort asking the question as I am

pretty sure I know what kind of responses I will get. But I also know different

people have differing levels of interest in this hobby, and they all have different motivations for being involved in it.

I have not really played much video games earlier in life. I have tried some,

but they just were not really my thing.

The reason I came here is because I met some guys in my university who play military games, either much the same as what I have seen here, or the same.

I have some other friends who do the same with some other wargames too. I don't know what the name of the games are, but they told me that the ones that they do play are very popular.

Personally, the idea of playing a military wargame always puzzled me. Just the same as how some people enjoy putting on camo and going into the woods to play airsoft also puzzles me. I just never saw it as something I would like to do as a hobby.

I have a semi professional interest in this primarily because I am former military. Some of my squad buddies or guys in my platoon laugh when they hear about people playing airsoft and whatnot.

I guess I just am interested in learning about the civilian's interest in these types of games.

Not only that, I am a psychology major now in college and I also enjoy learning about anything people do that just seems different to me.

I know this really isn't a big deal. Like I said earlier, I am sure most people do this just as a way to kill time or relax after classes or work. But I have met some people at my college who are completely obsessed with this. That is what I want to understand.

[HyperU2 11]

Why do some people enjoy chess?

I just enjoy being shot at.

[dysta 10]

People did mention the different between game and outdoor activity, if Airsoft is the Call of Duty, then the United Stated alliance war training with other county(ies) would be the VBS2.

[[asa]oden 0]

Darn, HyperU2 beat me to it.

Yes, the chess aspect in warfare style missions where you have a slight idea of enemy assets but not as clear open as in chess.

Make the best use of your current situation with regards to the overall goal.

So I prefer playing "group coop" where players support eachother groups rather than "normal" coop's where everyone needs to sit in eachothers lap.

As you might realize, all "awesome specops team owns an enemy battalion" missions are not my type of gameplay.

[Frostburg 10]

Like I said, I am just curious.

There are many mothers who are up in arms

about video game violence.

I am a psychology major who plans on becoming

a future psychologist, so the interest in violence,

wargames, and whatnot interest me.

We do study this in depth at my university.

I like to better understand anything that most people

consider unusual. I know this really isn't a big deal.

But the psychological profile of people who enjoy violent

video games and movies is something I study in my major.

I am not just focusing on the military game playing community,

I also am interested in learning about anything that is considered

controversial in American society. From the relatively mild, to the extreme.

I have attended UFO cult seminars, interviewed members of fetish or

BDSM clubs, white supremacy groups, animal rights organizations such as ALF, and zoosexuals.

I am interested in all aspects of western society.

Edited September 3, 2011 by Frostburg

[HyperU2 11]

I think you'll find more parents buying violent games for children than those up in arms. Movies speak for themselves. It might be a bit ambitious to study a group that includes the majority of the population.

[ProfTournesol 956]

What's controversial or not in the American society never ceases to amaze me :)

[dysta 10]

I think you'll find more parents buying violent games for children than those up in arms. Movies speak for themselves. It might be a bit ambitious to study a group that includes the majority of the population.

Alas, they'll be visually "blinded" by these hollywood and commercial game visuals. (over 90% of human sense input are from the eyes, so to say they won't understand something they DON'T visually seen)

[HyperU2 11]

What's controversial or not in the American society never ceases to amaze me :)

Well it's not really. We don't ban like your neighbors. This ks just one persons interpretation.

[Frostburg 10]

While nothing has been conclusively proven, there have

been psychological studies into this subject.

There have been studies that have shown that children

who regularly enjoy violent movies and video games show

increased aggression.

This does not prove anything however, because as any person

knows, correlation does not prove causation. But it still is something

we ought to investigate.

Another factor we should look at is motivation, and the compromise

between the id, ego, and superego.

It is an ideal concept for this subject. The id is the human's natural,

uncensored, and primal instincts such as those of aggression and sex.

The superego is our socially instilled morals and values that we develop as children, adolescents, and adults. It wants us to do the things that are socially acceptable in our environment.

The ego is our rational mindset that compromises between the two drives.

For example, Jane is sexually attracted to Steve. While her id side may wish nothing more than to wait in his bedroom and get into bed with him, her superego(depending on the girl) will want to avoid this. So in reality she might choose to join the same volunteer organization that he is a member of in order to develop a relationship with him.

While this is a Freudian idea and not everyone in the psychology field agree with this. It is an interesting idea.

These ideas can very easily be used in the study of those who enjoy

violent or military themed movies or video games, or just about any

hobby that one can find in the world, whether it be hang gliding, dancing,

painting, etc.

Anyways, I am not here to do an in depth analysis. I am just here

out of personal and professional curiosity.

[Beagle 684]

Take Dr. Freud besides...his 100+ year old theories are often considered obsolete. I play this game series since 2001 and OFP was simply the only PC software that allowed me to try out stuff in a simulation that just 5 years before I exercised "dry" on the training ground in the army.

I stick to the series for this reason still...and enjoy that the depth of Simulation hs increase since 2001 and Situaton can be simulated with an increasingly realistic look and feel to it.

[HyperU2 11]

And as real as this series is the "violence" in it is almost comical. It's about as sterile as a chess game.

[Beagle 684]

And as real as this series is the "violence" in it is almost comical. It's about as sterile as a chess game.

That's the reason why i like it...its still sterile in Violence depiction. I really don't need dismemberment and burned corpses for my purposes that is simply to try out larger scale tactics "High Command" mode and watching it.

I like the fact that Chernarus map and A2 Units make for good historical "Fulda Gap" scenarios. And it is very nice to have such the possibility to switch the characters in such custom missions.

For me the game is just the electronic version of the "sandbox" we had in the briefing room.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Beagle

[Gunter Severloh 4064]

Hi frostburg,

as i had pmed you earlier about your one post, I guess I will give my explanation why i got into the game and why I play it.

I personally was to scared if you will to get into the military as I almost joined up in when i was 18, ages ago. (cough 1993 ;))

and really the game allows you to do things that normally in real life you wouldn't be allowed or couldn't do.

You can play the game without all the military jargon, or rather strict and discipline, and requirements of rank to do it.

Well there are realism units and squads for the game too which can simulate that atmosphere but thats another story.

But in general lets just say for the sake of the game it allows you freedom of creativity at least this series does, you can be creative

in ways unimaginable, you can be any person you wish, drive any vehicle, fly any planes, helicopter, shoot any gun, blow stuff up ect,.

The thing is its really a curiosity, a fascination with violence but rather the safer side of it, i guess it can be related to some primal instinct

to want to fight and and kill if it were to lead to that, but then as been said its a hobby.

I personally enjoy the atmosphere, i like the idea of being "special" being elite its special forces, like a power rush if you will to have a gun,

be threatened and want to fight, just watching the latest battle and or combat in Afghanistan even in Iraq would give you the sense of that,

so the idea here is for me anyways is to be able to simulate the war environment without actually being in it.

Your able to do things without all the red tape if you get what im saying.

But like a hobby it is fun, its cool to see stuff blow up, it provides a sense of joy, the biggest thing is being creative. For me I like to help

folks with the mods aspect of the game as Im very familiar with the area at least for what i know.

I enjoy the editors as I spend most of my time there creating my own missions for myself and a close friend of mien to play together on our own server.

lastly the game is just allowing you to do things that you couldn't do in real life or would want to do, and again its a creative hobby.

[lsp 10]

Pretty close minded this topic is pointless every ones difrent and into difrent things. As far as violent games making you aggressive im a pretty passive guy and I play nothing but violent games, the only influence I would say those types of games have had on me is help my urge of wanting to join the military. But ive wanted to join since I was a kid long before I ever touched a video game.

[Cripsis 10]

Why do you enjoy playing military wargames?

I'm tipping that most ARMA fans have been fascinated with military units and weapons for as long as they can remember. I can't put my finger on exactly what sparked my attraction to wargames and the military in general but I can still remember playing with those little green army figurines in my bedroom when I was a little kid. Instinctive behavior? Possibly.

[hellfire257 3]

The challenge, learning experience and teamwork for me.

[JdB 151]

Why do you enjoy playing military wargames

To answer that question, I first need to clarify which products I personally think are military wargames, and which are not. I consider ArmA:CWA, ArmA1 and ArmA2 military wargames, games like CoD and BF are simply first person shooters that happen to feature a military theme imo, but could just as well have had lasers and energy shields. There are some others like DCS: Black Shark, but not a lot. ArmA games are much more than simple shooters, since to me being good at shooting things in ArmA isn't the most important, thinking is. Thinking about what to do next, what the enemy might do next, what everybody else around me is doing, situational awareness, keeping track of my squad's ammunition and health stats, giving orders, adapting plans to meet the objectives that can change at any time etc. Even thinking about what kind of problems the limitations/bugs of the games might cause. There are so many things to keep track of, that when the objectives are met with minimal casualties to my own side, and as many casualties on the other side as needed to complete the mission (I don't play a mission until all enemies are eliminated unless that is one of the objectives), I'm happy. Killing isn't important, completing the mission is. I'd have to say that to me that sense of achievement is the most enjoyable part of the ArmA series. ArmA throws up challenges, and you have to improvise, adapt and overcome.

I play other games with the same mindset, but they mostly lack in terms of possibilities, freedom, diversity, teamwork etc, so the same sense of achievement is not present there. Most other "military" games don't offer a challenge as they're a one-way street where everything you need to do is spelled out for you, for example where to go, knowing that there is always going to be a convenient obstacle to hide behind, reinforcements arriving at the exact time when you need them most etc. No fun at all.

Edited September 4, 2011 by JdB

[*LK1* 10]

skip

playing military games cuz i could feel gay to play with barbie&ken.

all military-gamers have a sort of attraction for the war. so the next question is "why the war?"...and that's bring us to far. we should talk about psicology to give you a deep and proper response.

Edited September 4, 2011 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[rübe 127]

Violence? :eek:

What violence? If you're playing PvP games, or if you're just looking at the game mechanics, there is no voilence at all. It's simply a game of some rules, some tactic/strategy and some "sports" (and lots of fun, of course). You win, you lose, all by yourself or in a team, you compete with others or you still fight with yourself...

If you seek violence in this game, you need to play the single player campaign, where a story is told (better yet, go and play the original CWC and Resistance campaign!). But then, we're on the voilence-level of tales, books and films. And embedded in this domain, it's called art or culture; maybe trash. Though Arma is no Postal, and BIS has never glorified violence in the stories they tell and let you play.

I am a psychology major who plans on becoming

a future psychologist, so the interest in violence,

wargames, and whatnot interest me.

What is voilence? Where does it start? When and where is voilence acceptable? What are games? What aren't they (yet)? What is a "wargame"? What is chess? What is art? And what's not? Why not? Where does abstraction end? Where does sh**t get real?

But hey, I'm glad you didn't use the term "killer games". :rolleyes:

But I have met some people at my college who are completely obsessed with this. That is what I want to understand.

You want to understand obsession? This has nothing to do (in particular) with "wargames". You will find someone beeing obsessed with anything. So what? One badly wired brain more (it's the hardware! hahaha), maybe even for his own good - who knows?

I personally doub't that "you psychologist" with all your Ãœber-Ich and Ãœber-Es and all your fear of your own mother will ever find out anyway...

But good luck. ;)

Edited September 5, 2011 by ruebe

[maturin 12]

Realism without freedom is a documentary. The only reason I bought Arma 2 was the hundreds of square kilometers of space. Everything follows after.

[Beagle 684]

I personally think "paintball" is more violent than ArmA...I had a few bad Skin injuries back in the days I played that. (1990's)

ArmA is much safer.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Beagle

[Frostburg 10]

Many good responses here.

I do think many regulars here misunderstand my intention

with the question that I ask.

Violent video game is just a broad category that encompasses

any game depicting combat, not just bloodfests. I understand

that this game is not big on the gore. I just used to term "violence"

to express the combat aspect of it.

However, from the responses I have received in this thread and via

PM, it is clear that one of the main draws to this game is not the violence, but instead is the fantasy

aspect of military operations and the creativity and critical thinking

required to complete your in-game missions.

I can understand this on a certain level being a veteran myself. But certain experiences during my military career as well as my studies of psychology at my university has aroused some academic curiosity into this realm which I hope to understand.

Honestly, I would not mind playing this game for a little with some other regulars just to see what all the fuss is about. But being a full time college student who intends to eventually earn his graduate and postgraduate degrees gives me very little time for activities outside the normal days of study and other extracurricular activities.

You folks should realize that the study of video game players(not just military ones) is quite common in college as many students do spend time playing them. I was not even really aware of how prolific they are until I came to college last year. I was initially curious about this and talked a good bit with my fellow students about this interest. This is what led me to this board.

Anyways folks, keep posting your personal opinions of this. I am interested in seeing all the different perspectives out there on this board.

[Cripsis 10]

Honestly, I would not mind playing this game for a little with some other regulars just to see what all the fuss is about.

CAUTION: Playing ARMA induces pleasurable effects by stimulating the major neurochemical pathway of the reward system in the brain.

[jakerod 254]

I would say that as far as ArmA II goes it is the creativity and problem-solving aspect of it that I like as well as the freedom that the game offers.

Violent games in general though I don't really know. I think one thing is sometimes the story. I tend to play Halo games because I liked the story and it was an epic*** story with the universe hanging in the balance. The type of thing very few get to be a part of in real life. I guess I probably get some kind of adrenaline rush out of it too especially in more difficult modes and games. That's the only reason I can think that I play Burnout 3 and Burnout Paradise. Both are racing games but I would say are just as much about smashing the other racers into things as they are about winning the race. I think there is some sort of adrenaline rush that I get from speeding through oncoming traffic and avoiding getting slammed into things. I kind of actually want to do it in real life to be honest but I don't want to endanger people's lives so I wouldn't.

One odd thing though is that in real life I am very pacifistic. I'm probably the last person you would ever see get into a fight. I actually just got my BA in Psychology two months ago and I think, as much as I hate Freud, that perhaps games allow me to suppress my superego because I know that it's not real and that I'm not really hurting anyone which is something I wouldn't do in real life except under extreme circumstances. I'm trying to think of a way to express it from a non-psychoanalytic perspective but I can't really think of one that fits it well. You win this round Freud. Good question too!

***I dislike how cliche this word has become but it was the only way I could think to describe it.