Give SP Tank crews some useful AI

[malau 10]

I HATE tank missions in A2 because your fellow tank crew members are useless.

They can't drive worth a damn, they are stop/start/stop/start/crash into buildings and trees, but the worst thing is.............

They will only fire the machine gun at targets on their own volition, they will never fire on Tanks/APCs with the main gun no matter how many times I '2' them and select the target for them.

The only option is to move to the Gunner's seat and desperately search for the target myself and hope I find it before I get blown to ****.

The old Operation Flashpoint tank crews were pretty smart, but these A2 tank crews !!

[suma 8]

They will only fire the machine gun at targets on their own volition, they will never fire on Tanks/APCs with the main gun no matter how many times I '2' them and select the target for them.

You, as a commander, need to tell the gunner to switch the weapon (LCtrl+F), you need to decide which target he should aim to (Tab), and you need to tell him when to fire (LCtrl+mouse button). Based on what was told to me by people having experience with real life tanks, this is how it works in real life tanks.

The old Operation Flashpoint tank crews were pretty smart, but these A2 tank crews !!

The AI should be more or less the same, what has changed is the UI (keys) used to command the AI, which is a result of the fact you as a commander are now also equipped with your weapons, therefore the primary weapon keys cannot be used for commanding.

Another difference might be in OFP was perhaps the main gun the default weapon, while now machine gun is default.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Suma

[CameronMcDonald 146]

They will only fire the machine gun at targets on their own volition, they will never fire on Tanks/APCs with the main gun no matter how many times I '2' them and select the target for them.

Yeah mate, you've got to actually select the cannon first. :) Been that way since CWC.

[Hud Dorph 22]

I think the fire commands works quite well, i like the fact that i decide when gunner shall fire instaed of he just fire as he please, afterall i am the "commander".

But......the driver is another matter, i def think that if you command "forward" the driver should go forward till i tell him different and NOT stop/evade/go left-right trying to go around a bush/tree. I have been killed so many times cuz of this. Imagine finding a good spot, fire at a target, tell driver "reverse" to go some meters back into cover, onle to realize that althoug "reverse" order given tank starts to go forward due to a bush 3m behind the tank. BOOM dead as a herring :).

[malau 10]

You, as a commander, need to tell the gunner to switch the weapon (LCtrl+F), you need to decide which target he should aim to (Tab), and you need to tell him when to fire (LCtrl+mouse button). Based on what was told to me by people having experience with real life tanks, this is how it works in real life tanks.

The AI should be more or less the same, what has changed is the UI (keys) used to command the AI, which is a result of the fact you as a commander are now also equipped with your weapons, therefore the primary weapon keys cannot be used for commanding.

Another difference might be in OFP was perhaps the main gun the default weapon, while now machine gun is default.

Thanks for the great reply.

However, I find that if I select the main cannon then the Gunner AI / Commander AI will also perform autonomously, targeting and shooting (as it does with the MG), resulting in it wasting precious shells shooting at foot soldiers.

[suma 8]

Thanks for the great reply.

However, I find that if I select the main cannon then the Gunner AI / Commander AI will also perform autonomously, targeting and shooting (as it does with the MG), resulting in it wasting precious shells shooting at foot soldiers.

No, he does not (at least I was not able to reproduce it). If you see it, please describe step by step what you do, so that I can see it as well.

---------- Post added at 09:01 ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 ----------

Yeah mate, you've got to actually select the cannon first. :) Been that way since CWC.

No, it was not. I have just launched CWC to verify and in CWC main gun was a default weapon (with SABOT ammo loaded by default). The first step (switching the weapon) was therefore not necessary in CWC.

I think making the main gun a default weapon would make sense for ArmA 2 as well (after all you have the commanders MG if you need to engage small targets quickly).

[CameronMcDonald 146]

No, it was not. I have just launched CWC to verify and in CWC main gun was a default weapon (with SABOT ammo loaded by default). The first step (switching the weapon) was therefore not necessary in CWC.

I was referring to the fact that you need to designate to the AI which weapon to use, not that a switch was necessary to use the main gun. The AI in OFP won't automatically switch to the coax if you are commanding.

[suma 8]

Dorph;1990313']But......the driver is another matter' date=' i def think that if you command "forward" the driver should go forward till i tell him different and NOT stop/evade/go left-right trying to go around a bush/tree.[/quote']

Again, I cannot see this. Such behaviour was common in OFP:CWC, but since then the system was reworked a long time ago and now the only thing the driver should do when encountering an obstacle should be he slows down a little bit, but he should never turn on his own.

If you seem him turning, please, post step by step repro how to see that.

[metalcraze 290]

What Suma says. Tank AI works for me as it should.

The only problem with Tank AI I have is the driver AI. He often drives way too slow - been a problem since OFP.

Also don't forget that "Fire at will" means that gunner will be a little bit out of your control just like with infantry if you use that command

Edited July 27, 2011 by metalcraze

[160thSOAR 10]

The main problem with ArmA2 AI is the driver AI. I actually sometimes prefer the helicopter gunner AI to a human, now that I've finally learned how to use it properly.

[.kju 3245]

Reference ticket: #15293: The AI tank gunner does not automatically switch to and use sabot/heat when a player is inside the vehicle.

While I can understand the goal trying to make the tank behavior realistic,

in my view the current state not good at all.

The main argument is like the malau in the forum points out that commanding

AI tanks is no fun at all in ArmA - it does not work well.

In OFP it worked somewhat better for these reasons:

• (Heavy) Tanks were able to withstand 2-3 sabot hits - in ArmA mostly the first sabot disables the tank. See #15842, #12848, #3503.
  
• As commander you had an additional cursor to assign targets. Especially with third person view that helped immensely. See #13218.
  
• As crew you heard the impacts close or onto the tank. This is broken/disabled since arma. See #14775.
  
• Even more the cursor was also in the radar box and made it possible to assign targets easily this way.
  
• TAB/radar lock no longer works as strong in arma. The mechanics have changed a bit since arma. Good for PvP play, bad vs AI.
  
• HEAT vs infantry is no longer as strong/useful as it used to be. See #1934.
  
• New bugs introduced by arma: #12200, #13383.
  

There are some more issues with tank commanding in general:

• AI is shooting beyond real viewable distance (as viewdistance/radar/locking distance is more). See #2671, #20189, #4852.
  
• Commanding an AI driver is works not really well. Giving waypoints is OK, yet direct movement commands are not working well enough due to the delay, the AI driver bouncing ~10 degree when you stop giving him the turn command. All in all no fluent and meaningful driving during combat possible.
  
• AI gunner commanded by a player starts firing only once the player has finished speaking the command. AI itself fires instantly.
  

I asked a few people how they use tanks due to the issues:

• They only enjoy mission commanding a group of tanks as you essentially fall back with the "lead" tank and let the other AI only tanks do the job (advance).
  
• You exit the tank, and run along as infantry as AI only tank is far more capable vs armored targets.
  
• People play as driver as the AI often fails to drive properly, switch to the gunner themselves once in position/in danger, as one is a lot faster rather by commanding the AI gunner, switch to the commander to radar lock targets and switch back to gunner.
  

The bottom line for me is:

• While even in OFP tanks missions were often frustrating, due the points above and the ability to repair the tank in most missions again, it was still fun.
  
• Since arma tank commanding is only frustrating. If I have to use a tank, as described above I do all the jobs myself (driving, shooting) or leave the tank and let the AI do the job.
  
• Ontop it seems the same root cause making AI gunners in cars not act. See #15308, #15307.
  

Edited August 1, 2011 by .kju [PvPscene]

[GROM64 10]

[...]

Great post +1

[PRiME 1]

I agree with that as well.

Also if I tell a AI Crew to ENGAGE AT WILL I would like that to be true. Yes your commander but sometimes you have your hands full and you just want your gunner to lay down the law on the enemy without constant hand holding.

Unfortunately BIS seem to ignore this command when it comes to AI crew/gunners/commanders. It is often only a issue when you are driving as player or as commander.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/12200

this one was assigned but not resolved on some tanks,

why BIS boys ignore everything related to tanks and vehicles in general ???

[old_painless 182]

I think it's more likely that they have not gotten around to it yet. The current beta work seems to focus on infantry AI. And also some work on AI and vehicles, not tanks though.

It also depends on how many vote for what CIT tickets